Go west young man and seek your fortune. But first...

[lostinthe202]

Hi again,

 

Some of you have read about my plans to move to California in the summer and helped me choose between my ea81 hatch and my leggy OBW. Now that I've chosen to stick with the wagon I'm turning my attention towards any needed maintenance before I hit the road.

 

Once I get out there my income will drop dramatically as I will be a full time student, and I will probably not have as decent a place to work on my car as I do now. Since in the next 5 months I will be paying off the CC's, saving for 1st/last/deposit on a place, and saving for the move itself, I thought I would give myself plenty of time to purchase and replace any longish term maintenance items in the hopes of being able to sail through my school years without anything more than what I can do on the sly in the parking garage of a mall:)

 

That being said here's my list of things likely to need attention soon.

 

T-belt

T-stat

Water pump

Oil pump seal & lock-tite screws

Cam & Crank seals

Gear oil change

 

Anyone have anything I should add to that list?

 

While the car ('96 OBW 5spd 166K) goes/stops/turns beautifully, there are a few ways in which he's showing his age. I'll list them and if you have any ideas/suggestions/questions, I'd be greatly appreciative.

 

The clutch shudders, but not too frequently. There seems to be nothing wrong with the friction as I've never noticed any hints of slipping even on hill starts (yes folks disabling the hill holder was the first thing I did after getting the car. Learned to drive in the hills and it just seems wrong to use it... that and it kept pissing me off while parallel parking) I never thought of clutch shudder as a symptom of a thin friction plate but rather worn anti-shake springs or whatever they're called. Am I wrong?

 

While on the subject of the clutch. There is a noise there that I've been trying to figure out. I've searched about this and haven't come to any definite conclusion. When I'm in neutral there is a noise like a marble on a roulette board, actually more like several marbles on a roulette board. It goes away when I push the clutch in. From searching, the throwout bearing explanation of quieting down when you load it by putting in the clutch sounded the most like my thing. On the other hand, someone else suggested that it could be a bearing inside the transmission which will go on making noise for many thousand miles with no other action necessary other than turning your radio up so as not to hear it.

 

Any votes for a clutch kit or is this something I can potentially ignore.

 

And lastly, and I thank you for your patience as this is a long post, the idle pretty consistently races after restarting the car after fully warming up, like say if I drove 10 miles to the store and parked, then restarted immediately to get a closer spot, the rpms will hang around 1500, then slowly drop back to normal over the next 5 minutes or so. It may be coincidental, but it seems that the idle drops when I touch the breaks. I first thought it was the idle air valve (or whatever its called in Subarese) acting up, and it may be. But the thing with the brakes brings to mind something I read in some manual for some car I owned in the past that there is a gizmo (the ecu?) that delays the drop in throttle to ease shifting. Could this thingy be on the fritz? Is this thing smart enough to know I'm on the brakes?

 

OK, thanks for your patience!!

 

Will-

[nipper]

The noise sounds like a throw out bearing. The input shaft would be there whenever the tranny is unloaded (deceleration or neutral) i would think. Once again its hard to say over the net. IF you can get a stethascope on the fork you should be able to tell. A tranny bearing wont transmit to the fork as much as a to Bearing. a TO bearing wouldnt be heard in the tranny housing.

 

Just an idea.

 

If its an orginal TO bearing, its about the right time for it to be upset.

 

Test your power brake booster. With the car off pump the brakes ten times. With your foot on the brake pedal start the car, it should go to the floor. I am wondering if you have an odd vacume leak that seals itself up in the booster.

 

 

nipper

[lostinthe202]

The noise sounds like a throw out bearing. The input shaft would be there whenever the tranny is unloaded (deceleration or neutral) i would think. Once again its hard to say over the net. IF you can get a stethascope on the fork you should be able to tell. A tranny bearing wont transmit to the fork as much as a to Bearing. a TO bearing wouldnt be heard in the tranny housing.

 

Stethascope, check! I just happen to have one.

 

Test your power brake booster. With the car off pump the brakes ten times. With your foot on the brake pedal start the car, it should go to the floor. I am wondering if you have an odd vacume leak that seals itself up in the booster.

 

Iiiiinteresting. I never would've thought of that in a million years. I'll try it when I leave work.

 

thanks!

 

Will-

[porcupine73]

T-belt

T-stat

Water pump

Oil pump seal & lock-tite screws

Cam & Crank seals

Gear oil change

 

Anyone have anything I should add to that list?

 

water pump gasket

geared/toothed idler near water pump and at least check the other idlers for wear/freeplay

has your brake fluid ever been changed?

a couple turkey baster changes of the power steering reservoiur might not hurt.

[lostinthe202]

water pump gasket

geared/toothed idler near water pump and at least check the other idlers for wear/freeplay

 

Ah yes, I forgot to ask that question. I'm already racking up quite the bill for parts as I'm going OEM on everything on the theory that if it lasted this long the first time, it will the second as well. These pulleys are expenso. Should I just suck it up and buy 'em or assuming the smooth ones are quiet and have no play can I get away with replacing just the toothed fella? I have to do the timing belt portion soon as I believe my WP to be on the way out.

 

BTW, thanks again for the seal puller idea. I've only done one job like that and I had a helluva time getting the bugger out. So here's to hopin!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

has your brake fluid ever been changed?

Check

 

a couple turkey baster changes of the power steering reservoiur might not hurt.

 

and check.

 

thanks!

 

Will-

[EVOthis]

on the subject of the throwout bearing.....i just replaced my clutch, pressure plate, flywheel, and pilot and throwout bearings (with new clips). I have the exact same noise when in neutral and goes away when i push in the clutch......is it normal to have that noise at all even if it is a new release bearing?

[porcupine73]

Should I just suck it up and buy 'em or assuming the smooth ones are quiet and have no play can I get away with replacing just the toothed fella?

I would definitely replace the geared/toothed one. I think that one is about $60 for the OEM. The other two smooth idlers just check for freeplay/smoothness and replace if needed (though that can be inconvenient if you don't have them on hand while doing the job). Regreasing is also an option.

[lostinthe202]

on the subject of the throwout bearing.....i just replaced my clutch, pressure plate, flywheel, and pilot and throwout bearings (with new clips). I have the exact same noise when in neutral and goes away when i push in the clutch......is it normal to have that noise at all even if it is a new release bearing?

 

 

Why did you replace your flywheel? Just curious. Also, was this noise present before you did the work? Where did you get your parts?

 

Thanks

Will-

[EVOthis]

the flywheel was heat scored and cracked....the car had 180000 miles on it so i figured it was prob time for one....also it was only like 80$ all the parts i got were Sachs with the exception of the clips for the throwout bearing which were from subaru.....the only thing i noticed before the clutch job was obviously the clutch was slippintg unbelieveably bad...i dont believe i heard a noise or anything......im not really that concered with it.....since i know everything tested ok when i put it in....its just annoying....

[Skip]

Howdy Will, looks like your on your way

some real good info here.

 

Just some notes in passing,

looks like the morse taper on your chuck

is getting there?

 

Lathe chips? Bet you turned yourself a handle

for the seal puller and the shaft?, what! no knurling?

 

 

Is the lathe big enough to turn the flywheel?

[Bigbusa]

I put all this in my 96 obs. With shipping it was $202. Parts claim to meet or exceed oem specs. I found the parts to be high quality. You even get valve cover gaskets and grommets. The only thing this kit doesn't come with is a new t-stat and t-stat gasket.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1990-1996-Subaru-Legacy-Impreza-Master-Timing-Belt-Kit_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33625QQihZ013QQitemZ230220516435QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

 

I imagine if you bought all the above parts from subaru they'd cost much more. Maybe twice as much? Would they last twice as long?

[lostinthe202]

Howdy Will, looks like your on your way

some real good info here.

 

Just some notes in passing,

looks like the morse taper on your chuck

is getting there?

 

Ha! You ain't lyin'. Actually I work in a student shop at a university. The chuck featured in the pic is about to have it's taper cleaned up or replaced. It had a run in with "the human C&C", this professor who calls out numbers to his grad student who turns the handles. Quite funny to watch actually, but very hard on the tools.

 

 

 

Bet you turned yourself a handle

for the seal puller and the shaft?, what! no knurling?

 

Sorry Skip, my last pic didn't have the right... focus.

 

 

Is the lathe big enough to turn the flywheel?

 

Our biggest lathe has a 17" swing. How big is a 2.2 flywheel?

[lostinthe202]

I put all this in my 96 obs. With shipping it was $202. Parts claim to meet or exceed oem specs. I found the parts to be high quality. You even get valve cover gaskets and grommets. The only thing this kit doesn't come with is a new t-stat and t-stat gasket.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1990-1996-Subaru-Legacy-Impreza-Master-Timing-Belt-Kit_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33625QQihZ013QQitemZ230220516435QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

 

I imagine if you bought all the above parts from subaru they'd cost much more. Maybe twice as much? Would they last twice as long?

 

 

Wow, definitely cheaper alright. Have you used these before? How long did they last?

 

Thanks

Will-

[Bigbusa]

Wow, definitely cheaper alright. Have you used these before? How long did they last?

 

Thanks

Will-

 

I have not used theese parts before (haven't needed to) but the seller does have 7000+ positive feedbacks on ebay. He sells A LOT of timing belt kits for many different vehicles. The oil seals are black in color. I've heard from others here that these seals don't last as long as the rust colored seals. My 96 obs had 180k miles on it when I replaced the parts. I highly doubt the seals will start leaking before the car ends up in the junkyard. Time will tell.

 

Maybe other members here will chime in on using these parts vs OEM parts.

 

The parts in the kit even come with a warranty. "All PCI Timing kit come with a 12 month / 12,000 mile warranty."

[Skip]

Thanks for the follow up Will.

 

Nice turn on the handle.

(45 deg spiral angle, 90 deg profile?)

 

On the flywheel question.

 

Sorry, I only have done the EA series,

I'm gonna bet an EJ is not that much bigger

and will fit a 17" swing.

EZ to turn with carbide cutters.

[lostinthe202]

Nice turn on the handle.

(45 deg spiral angle, 90 deg profile?)

 

Got this little ditty that does a nice job of it

 

 

On the flywheel question.

 

Sorry, I only have done the EA series,

I'm gonna bet an EJ is not that much bigger

and will fit a 17" swing.

EZ to turn with carbide cutters.

 

What would a bad flywheel look like or will it be obvious? Is this a runout thing you could check with an indicator or something else?

 

Thanks!

 

Will-

[Skip]

Nice knuling tool!!

Do you know if it came from Enco?

 

Is your quick change post an Aloris?

 

 

 

The surface of the flywheel can show

heat treated sections but is almost always

in need of a new "suface" - like rotors.

 

I have never used a dial indicator to check runout.

I use one to make sure it's true in the chuck.

 

I turn the meat off the back along with

the face and on our EA series the PP step.

(see the "step" in my above picture)

 

Here is a "meat off" shot

[lostinthe202]

Nice knuling tool!!

Do you know if it came from Enco?

 

Don't know who made it. It doesn't have any markings on it other than "made in Switzerland"

 

Is your quick change post an Aloris?

 

yesir.

 

 

 

I turn the meat off the back along with

the face and on our EA series the PP step.

 

How do you know how much meat to take off?

 

I assume that since you're turning you don't need to balance it afterwards, or if I do need to balance it, is there some way of doing that in an average shop?

 

thanks!

 

Will-

[Skip]

Don't know who made it.

It doesn't have any markings on it other than

"made in Switzerland"

I'll have to look around for one of those, mine are all fixed pitch type.

 

 

yesir.

Forget the rest when you own the best!!

 

 

 

 

 

How do you know how much meat to take off?

This is a performance mod for some guys, I use

the dimensions of a flywheel for an XT6 for

my minimum sizes. About 6 lbs of chips.

 

I don't think you will be doing this??

 

I assume that since you're turning you don't need to balance it afterwards,

or if I do need to balance it,

is there some way of doing that in an average shop?

On the contrary, I must balance these after turning.

The factory balance is thrown off by removing

so much weight.

I use a SnapOn wheel balancer that I have made

an adapter for.

[lostinthe202]

I'll have to look around for one of those, mine are all fixed pitch type.

 

Yeah it's a funny one. You can use any wheel to get a diamond pattern, but you can only use angled wheels to get a straight knurl.

 

 

 

Forget the rest when you own the best!!

 

thassright!

 

 

This is a performance mod for some guys, I use

the dimensions of a flywheel for an XT6 for

my minimum sizes. About 6 lbs of chips.

 

I don't think you will be doing this??

 

No, no I won't. Not much interested in any performance aside from the 300k+ kind;)

 

On the contrary, I must balance these after turning.

The factory balance is thrown off by removing

so much weight.

I use a SnapOn wheel balancer that I have made

an adapter for.

 

 

Yikes, well I won't be machining my own version of that tool anytime soon!!

 

So is assume there is plenty of meat for me to take a pass or two without going too thin. Forgive my ignorance but I've never messed with a flywheel before.

 

Thanks!!

Will-

[OB99W]

On the contrary, I must balance these after turning.

The factory balance is thrown off by removing

so much weight.

I use a SnapOn wheel balancer that I have made

an adapter for.

Can I assume that rather than tacking on weights, you remove material

diametrically opposite the point(s) the balancer indicates?

[porcupine73]

Neat pics of the machining! I'm assuming this couldn't be done on the harbor freight mini-lathe?

[lostinthe202]

Neat pics of the machining! I'm assuming this couldn't be done on the harbor freight mini-lathe?

 

 

Which part? The seal puller gizmo could be. There wasn't anything too serious going on there. The threaded parts of the "adjustable foot" turned out to be red herrings as I changed my design after I machined them so they are totally unnecessary. Knurling aluminum could be as long as you're not going for a really deep pattern. Those little lathes def. have their limitations but as long as you go slow and aren't taking too much material with each pass.

 

BTW, I tried that vacuum test, pumped the brakes 10 times, held 'em and turned the car on. They sunk a ways but didn't go to the floor.

 

Will-

[frag]

When I replaced my clutch last summer, the shop that did the flywheel left a «texture» on the flywheel surface where the disk contacts it. I dont remember what the pattern of this texture was but it was done on purpose and a few thousand kilometers later the clutch is still smooth and engages flawlessly.

Is this a usual practice or not ? What do you think of it ? Do you do something like that yourself ?

P.-S.: The same machinist also shaved a few thousandts of the outer portion of the flywheel surface where the pressure plate bolts on, to «make the clutch grab stronger ». Same questions about that practice.

Thanks in advance.

Please excuse my barging in. I thought those questions might interest the posters in this thread.

[Skip]

OB99W, you are correct in the weight removal assumption

I remove it and drill holes equal in dia to the factory balance holes.

And then re-test, and so on.

 

Porc, those mini lathes have limitations as Will says.

Try to find a small Atlas or older Craftsman.

Here is my mid sized, I also have a old Craftsman mini. (shown below)

 

 

the shop that did the flywheel left a «texture» on the flywheel surface where the disk contacts it.

Is this a usual practice or not ?

Yes Frag, I use a D/A (Duel Action) sander with 80 grit

on the surface to provide this.

The same machinist also shaved a few thousandts of the outer portion of the flywheel surface where the pressure plate bolts on, to «make the clutch grab stronger ».

This is standard practice and MUST be done to maintain

the proper PP to clutch disc clearence.

A small amount (0.0750") more can be taken off the

"step" but if too much comes off, the clutch will not

disengage properly.

Please excuse my barging in. I thought those questions might interest the posters in this thread.

No excuse needed for good questions.

Hope we answered them to some degree.