terryb52 Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 I posted a couple months ago about my bad Subaru Outback experience. I bought a '98 from an auction in IL on the advice of a relative. He drove it out here (CO) in an ice storm. Found out it needs a new engine (rod knock diagnosed by 3 mechanics). I do not want to replce the engine. Now the dilema... do I trade it in at a dealership and hope they don't figure it out (bad karma) and try to get back some of my $2500? Sell it as is for ???? (any guesses?). I am broke and can't afford to lose much. The whole thing has had me stressed. I fixed up my '92 and have been driving it but hadn't really wanted to put more money in it. I have been looking at Foresters and Honda CRVs and RAV-4s. Any words of wisdom? Prices seem to be much higher here in Colorado Springs than other places for all of these cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 money is an issue - so you need to make a good financial move here. if the car is in otherwise good condition - can you at least look into trying to keep it? you can do an EJ22 swap and have a great, reliable vehicle. that's what i would recommend in your shoes. EJ22's are cheap and it's a direct swap. i can get one around here with a 3 month warranty for $200....and even picked up an EJ engine with 100,000 miles, 3 month warranty for $150 last fall. trade in...you'll get hosed unless you cover up that rod-knock. which i don't recommend, that is shady. don't buy a forester - it'll have an EJ25 in it, they blow head gaskets and have some rare but more-than-usual-subaru rod knocks. do a search on here or a search engine for EJ25 head gaskets and see. if you want a subaru go with an EJ22 (2.2 liter), one of the best engines Subaru ever made and they are easy to find cheap and not that old. i'd personally recommend a 1996 or earlier in your shoes. reliable and very low risk of any significant issues if you can keep oil and coolant in it. good luck, that does suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryb52 Posted February 19, 2008 Author Share Posted February 19, 2008 I looked into swapping and was told there were more problems with making sure things hooked up properly than was worth it. Also told I should get a new engine rather than junkyard ($5K for that whole deal). I have no idea what the rest of the car is like-- tranny, etc. I only drove it twice! Thing was, it was passed by a dealership in Dubuque, IA who did the safety inspection before it was driven out here. I wrote them a nasty letter and never heard back. I at least wanted my $70 back! We knew before taking it there that it was making a noise. Just didn't know what it was. They told us it needed an alignment and other small things which added up to about $200 with the inspection. I read another post where the advice was to just get a new car and be done with second guessing whether you are getting a money pit. If I could afford the payments, that's what I would do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 And who told you that there are more porblems? This is done all the time, and there are threads here telling you how to do it. Saftey inspection has nothing to do with the condition of the mechanicals of the drivetrain. They only inspect to the letter of the law. Saftey inspection doesnt care if the car runs, just that the brakes work, lights work, and the wheels don't fall off. If you can do the engine swap look at doing it. You will come out ahead. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aircraft engineer Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 other than the AC recharge, it's a piece of cake. engine swaps are simple (I need to do a 20R Toyota swap in a pick-up) Best part is that with the engine out it's easy to do the timing belt/idlers/water pump at the same time and have it ready to go for another 100k If Colorado weren't so far I'd consider buying it myself, towing it home, dropping in an engine and make a suby person out of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3Pin Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 I'd do the swap with a 2.2. They are cheap and they work. A 95 2.2 is as clean as it gets. Then drive it for at least 2 years and then you can move on if you want. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msmithmmx Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 The swap to a 2.2 is very easy. I have done 2 in my garage with a toolset I bought at Costco and a engine lift I got off Craigslist. I did need to purchase a swivel head wrench and a breaker bar. Take a pic of the car inside and out and post it. Look what this guy got for a OBW with a BAD engine. 1900. I still can't believe it. Regarding the AC recharge, I did one in my driveway yesterday from a kit I bought at Walmart http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=003&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=130196592250&rd=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 the other thing to consider is that you already own a 92 2.2L engine. it may not be as compatible as a 95 or 96 but you do have it. of course you would be car-less while the work was being done. and then you'd have a junk car to deal with. i'd do the swap. drive the 98 w/the knock and sell the 92. it may run fine untill you sell the 92, if not you'll need a tow. use the money from the sale to pay for the swap. it shouldn't take more than 2 days, most time one day. p.s.: you don't even have to recharge the ac, you just unbolt the compressor from the engine and leave it attached to the car & ac hoses. then whan the new engine is in you bolt the old/existing compressor to the new engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtdash Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 I'm not going to pretend to know more than 3 mechanics who said it's rod-knock, but I had a mechanic tell me the same thing, and after I sold an OB (for a loss) I'm pretty sure it was actually 'piston-slap'...after reading about it on USMB. Is it loud @ start-up but goes away after it's warmed up? That's what piston-slap does and it's not a big deal...other than disconcerting as heck. The CRV and RAV4s are pretty good @ holding their value...If you can find one. In Co. Springs, I'd say you're in 'prime Subie/4WD' land, which explains the inflated values...the good news is that if the OB is clean (not rusted) and reasonable miles you may get your money back. $2500 for a clean OB may be just the ticket for someone there who is willing to do the swap. Plus, CCR isn't too far away (Denver) and they can put in a 2.2 for $3750 (last I read). If you haven't put any $$ into it and are not able to swap in a 2.2, then I suggest selling it and getting the <96 Legacy. Sounds like it will fit your budget and should be as reliable as anything else for the money. Sorry you got a bum deal - been there done that, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Rod knock sounds nothing like piston slap. It's a deeper sond that never goes away, and may get worse as the engine oil thins out. It will change when the spark plug is disconnected from the coil for that cylinder. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 It will change when the spark plug is disconnected from the coil for that cylinder. I've used this method for years but I have to ask, is it not true in these engines this can not be used to find the cyl. with the bad big end bearing? With the wasted spark system in play pulling say #1 will kill spark to #3 also. I know this is mute as one would be changing all the bearing if one was toast but ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryb52 Posted February 20, 2008 Author Share Posted February 20, 2008 Wow-- there's a lot of conversation about this. I am a nonmechanical single woman who has gotten so many differing pieces of advice. One mechanic said it was a tensioner rod but the next one said absolutely not. The knock does not go away when it warms up. The same mechanic said that I would be facing the same problems with head gaskets if I got an engine from a junkyard or bought one from Japan. He said he fixes other people's problems from trying to swap out 2.2 for 2.5 all the time. If anyone knows of a mechanic in C/S who is experienced in doing this and is reputable, please let me know. A 2.5 would cost me about $1500 plus installation. (What should that run?) Haven't priced a 2.2. There is a little rust on it (from WI). I could live with it for 2 years if I get it running. It has 135K miles. I tend to only put 12K or less a year on a car. If I can get this whole thing settled for another $2000 or so it would be worth it. I would then sell my '92. Thanks for all your opinions and help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 i don't know what part of colorado you are in, but this guy has a 95 2.2L w/ 125k miles for $525. 1995 Engine Subaru Legacy-DROVE OK, 165ALL, AT-125K, 125,000, #AD329, $525 Blake's Small Car Salvage, Inc. USA-CO(Erie) E-mail 1-800-665-4326 you maybe could get it for less or find one closer to you for less. the 95 is a direct swap, you can also use 96, 97, $ 98 2.2L engines. i found him on www.car-part.com (sort by distance). my shop in VA quoted "a day, maybe a day & a half" for a 2.2 to 2.5 engine swap. but he had never done one before so he was allowing for some 'head scratching' time. he does 2.5 to 2.5 swaps in a day. so 8 hours times the labor rate of 75$ equals 600$ labor, plus misc parts, belts, oil, anti freeze, etc......... you can probably get the 2.2 to 2.5 swap done for $1200 - $1500. depending what your 92 is worth, i think you could use that engine. but that would make the 92 worthless, and the 98 outback would always have a check engine light on. this is NOT the best solution, but you could do it for less since you don't have to buy the engine, 700 - 900$ maybe. a 98 outback with 125k on the engine for 4000$ (2500 + 1500) isn't a bad price, maybe a little high IMHO. but if you drive it for 3 years and sell it w/ 160k miles for 1500$, you'll be ok. chances are you'll keep it longer. sell it like it is and you'll probably only get 500 - 700$. good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryb52 Posted February 20, 2008 Author Share Posted February 20, 2008 I won't be using my '92 as a donor-- it's a turbo with 182K. I'll get more for it selling outright once I get a working car. I've replaced most everything in it so it's worth somehting anyway. I will start looking for options on mechanics and engines. If anyone has a Subie guy in colorado spings they know has done this swap, please let me know. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 If anyone has a Subie guy in colorado spings they know has done this swap, please let me know. Thanks! Meeky Moose Subaru Master this guy is in colorado springs. he knows a lot, but he may do his own work. send him an email, or private message, or both. i think he used to live in VA but i'm not sure. i think i spoke to him about doing a swap for me but turned out i didn't need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVOthis Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 no idea about prices but CCR (colorado componant rebuilders) are out there in Denver......from what people tell me they do excellant work and i think they have like a 3 year warranty....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryb52 Posted February 21, 2008 Author Share Posted February 21, 2008 Just got a quote from them-- about $3400. Too steep for me. Any other suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aircraft engineer Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 pull the bad cylinder spark plug and put a "plug" (any available spark plug) on the end of the wire and clamp (c clamp, vise grip?) the "bare plug" to something metal so it sparks. The other 3 will run and the 1 plug is "dead" but sparking - you need to have a connection to make coil work both plugs. This is one way to do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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