mountaingoatgruff Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 doing a tune up, looking for recommendations on some stuff. what kind of plugs and wires do you guys use and how do you like them? comments on the replacement style k&n air filter? i have my regular brands but i've never worked on a newer subaru, just looking for comments from folks who've used different brands and noticed differences as a result. as always, thanks for the support!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 sure would help knowing what engine/year you are working on. They all do best with NGK plugs The EJ series is very sensitive to the sparking plug wires OEM or Magecore K&N filters are generaly frowned upon. PCV valves and T-stats are also OEM only parts hope this helps I'm sure others will give their dose paysose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaingoatgruff Posted February 23, 2008 Author Share Posted February 23, 2008 duh...excuse me for leaving that out. 97 legacy wagon w/ ej22 if you don't mind me asking, why the bad vibes for k&n? my truck loved the one i put in there, but of course, that was a v8! how about ngk wires? are those magnecore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durania Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 My experience with non-disposable filters is that the oil that is used on them ends up collecting on the MAF wires and causing a CEL and running like garbage. I put an AEM on on my Tacoma and regretted it ever since. Your best option for filtering intake air is just to stick to a paper one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Paper filters better and doesn't harm MAF's. The stock filter is larger than the engine needs by quite a bit, so there is nothing to gain but a lighter pocket-book. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 how about ngk wires? are those magnecore? Simple question Simple answer nope nope http://www.magnecor.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaingoatgruff Posted February 23, 2008 Author Share Posted February 23, 2008 i didn't mean to ask if ngk's are part of that brand. the bosch wires that are on my car now say "mag-core" on the sides and i was asking if ngk's are that style of wire. i guess you were talking about that brand to begin with. i looked them up and nearly suffered a cardiac arrest after finding the price in that mess of a parts/price list they have. $106 for four plug wires!! i really do appreciate the input but i'm gonna see how the $40 bosch wires do, this car's just a dd and doesn't justify $106 wires. maybe next time i'll look into oem but the dealer parts dept is closed and i'd really like to get this one off the to-do list today... as far as the filters, i see what you guys are talking about. makes perfect sense. thanks for that input, too. i'm sure there's tons of guys who have been thoroughly disappointed after putting them on their various vehicles, i'll be going with a wix, same as fuel filter. i always go with mobil oil filters and have never had reason to doubt them. i quit buying fram products after the plastic piece inside a fram oil filter on my 85 dodge 318 broke free and about plugged the thing up. for those who don't know: penzoil filters are the same crap as fram, same mfg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 EJ stuff is nothing like EA older gen stuff. EJ engines are very sensitive to ignition wires. i've seen (and you can find many threads on here too) brand new aftermarket wires cause cylinder misfire check engine lights. it's not worth $40. stick with OEM subaru wires or Magnecor. Shop around, do NOT buy them from Magnecor. A distributor will have cheaper prices, i think i bought mine online for my 1997 EJ22 were $60-ish or so dollars. Magnecor wires are awesome - you'll never need to replace them, so by the 2nd wire change you're making money and have wires that won't degrade. i've carried over sets to second and i think third vehicles before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaingoatgruff Posted February 24, 2008 Author Share Posted February 24, 2008 there were bosch plug wires on it when i got it, they're still on it now, and the thing has no trouble with misfiring and no cel. i also hooked up the scanner and there's no stored codes for misfiring, or anything for that matter. besides that, the plug wire was loose at the #1 coil tower and there's now corrosion all over the male terminal. despite this the car runs smooth as butter. i know the value of experience, though, so i'll wait on the wires till i can maybe find a cheaper source for those magnecores. the best i could find them without extensive searching was $74.25+s&h at alamomotorsports.com, still pretty damn steep for plug wires. the ej22 engine has plenty of wire separators and none of my wires touch how they are now. is this perhaps the key to preventing the misfire troubles? also, what kind of wires are the oem's? are they larger diameter wires similar to magnecors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 I've used NGK wires and plugs with good results. I alo love my K+N filter, it' done nothing but help my low end and turbo spooling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 +1 for the NGK wires. Gauranteed for life too (so I'm told by my local dealer) so even though you may have to replace them as long as you keep the receipt you still only have to buy one set. They are numbered for easy identification and installation and they are exact fit for each make/model, not universal as some other brands. The terminals are stainless steel too. Best of all, they are inexpensive. http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/products/cars_trucks_suvs/wiresets.asp?nav=11600&country=US GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 I alo love my K+N filter, it' done nothing but help my low end and turbo spooling. At the cost of filtering ability. For a given suface area, the flow is proportional to the particulate size of the filter medium. Sure K&N filters flow better - but they filter worse. That causes all number of problems ultimately shortening the life of many components dowstream of the filter. There's a reason manufacturers choose paper elements over oiled cloth. The reason is particulate filtration sizes. Paper can be produced with much more accuracy and consistency than the oiled cloth mesh, is more durrable, requires less maintanance (you throw them away), and is less expensive. It also has no chemical effects on any potentially sensitive electronics as the oil can when it gets sucked out of the filter (which it most certainly will as oil vapor). Personally I would rather just use a larger paper element if I need better flow. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaingoatgruff Posted February 24, 2008 Author Share Posted February 24, 2008 the ngk's are available through kragen's for $70 w/ a 3mo warantee. i found them online for around $45+s&h at a few places, but no mention of warantee on any site, including ngk's. if i go that route, i may as well get the magnecor's for an extra $30. i'll know there's a warantee and the wires sound to be much higher quality judging by each mfg's description. i still find this whole thing to be ridiculous as i've never seen, heard, or experienced this problem on any vehicle. sure, i've encountered wires that interfere w/ each other while they're touching and operating at high revs, but that's not what you guys seem to be describing. i fixed that with a few inches of plastic conduit and a couple zip ties. obviously this tuneup remains on the to-do list as multiple factors force it's postponement. a bit of time can be a good thing under these circumstances, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 I have put about 10K miles on my EJ25 with no problems using Bosch wires and platinum plugs. That was prior to joining USMB, where I keep reading to use Subie wires and NGK plugs. To do it over again, I prolly would use the recommended Subie wires and NGK plugs, only because it is so highly recommended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluestone Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Don't mean to rekindle an old but still ongoing debate re: K & N air filters but there's absolutely NO evidence that using them results in eventual engine damage. Any tiny particulates that get through the filter media have never been shown to be damaging to the engine. There are plenty of folks around who have used a K & N filter for 200k miles and more with their engines still going strong. I'm not aware of any law suits, individual or class action against K & N, and there have been literally millions of their filters sold and used. They let a lot more air through to the engine and I'd say that may even contribute to engine longevity for that reason. I've had one on my Sube for the past 40k miles and am very pleased with it. I'm well aware of the arguements against this filter but am not the least concerned. If they're in fact damaging to the engine, show me some HARD evidence, not just opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaingoatgruff Posted February 25, 2008 Author Share Posted February 25, 2008 i'll be going with the magnecor wires with the expectation that i'll make my money back after they last through what would otherwise have been a few wire changes. just to double check - i need magnecor set # 45277 for my 97 legacy's ej22, right? this will be the first time i've spent this much on wires for a 4cylinder, i once spent $115 on 10mm wires for a mopar bb v8 running a 45,000V msd, but that's a different beast! going ground shipping to save a few bucks so ask me in a few weeks how they worked out! as far as the whole k&n thing goes, after paying this much for the wires i'm not even worried about a k&n! i was thinking about it though and was wondering, if the oil used on a k&n gums up the wires of a maf sensor, why doesn't it gum the inside of the intake tube? wouldn't the amount of oil gunk one would think necessary to cause a maf to malfunction be dectectable in the intake tube? my k&n's intake tube was always squeaky clean, even after many recharges. could it be that some of those folks experiencing these problems are improperly recharging (too much oil)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durania Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Don't mean to rekindle an old but still ongoing debate re: K & N air filters but there's absolutely NO evidence that using them results in eventual engine damage. Any tiny particulates that get through the filter media have never been shown to be damaging to the engine. There are plenty of folks around who have used a K & N filter for 200k miles and more with their engines still going strong. I'm not aware of any law suits, individual or class action against K & N, and there have been literally millions of their filters sold and used. They let a lot more air through to the engine and I'd say that may even contribute to engine longevity for that reason. I've had one on my Sube for the past 40k miles and am very pleased with it. I'm well aware of the arguements against this filter but am not the least concerned. If they're in fact damaging to the engine, show me some HARD evidence, not just opinion. I never said anything about the engine being harmed in my above post. I stated that the oil the non-disposable filters are coated with end up collecting on the MAF wire and causing it to throw a check engine light. I see them as a bandwagon accessory, yeah its great to have the K & N sticker on your back glass, but at the cost of vital electrical components. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 If they're in fact damaging to the engine, show me some HARD evidence, not just opinion. You can't - no one can. You can test the particulate sizes of various filter mediums and take your chances. It's not worth it to me when for very little more I can just go with a BIGGER paper element. The premium on K&N's has you halfway there already in cost. I rebuild stuff every day where I see the effects of particulate abrasion to cylinder walls. It WILL wear out the rings faster, but if that increase in wear is important to you, or to the overall life of the engine is probably questionable. It's really just a matter of being better safe than sorry. Do as you like - it's your money. For me, the potential drawbacks outweigh the gains. Especially when it's avoidable by just going with a known safe option like paper and using one big enough to give the flow I desire. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaingoatgruff Posted February 25, 2008 Author Share Posted February 25, 2008 about k&n's as a bandwagon acc- i noticed a drastic difference in my truck's performance after installing the fipk2 in my ram. anyone who has seen the 94-01 air delivery system on these engines knows dodge shot themselves in the foot with that crap. the k&n improved response, high end capabilities while haulin rump roast, and low end grunt while haulin weight. i was very disappointed with the mpg increase, though. i think the decision to get a k&n or similar prcoduct should be based on deficiency in the stock system. if the stock ej22 air delivery system is overly adequate as GD suggests, there's no apparent need for an expensive filter, especially one that just drops into the stock airbox and retains it's bad flow characteristics. if i even did put a k&n style filter on it, i'd want to rig a better air tube and use a big conical filter. btw - i never put the stickers on my truck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aircraft engineer Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 You can't - no one can. You can test the particulate sizes of various filter mediums and take your chances. It's not worth it to me when for very little more I can just go with a BIGGER paper element. The premium on K&N's has you halfway there already in cost. I rebuild stuff every day where I see the effects of particulate abrasion to cylinder walls. It WILL wear out the rings faster, but if that increase in wear is important to you, or to the overall life of the engine is probably questionable. It's really just a matter of being better safe than sorry. Do as you like - it's your money. For me, the potential drawbacks outweigh the gains. Especially when it's avoidable by just going with a known safe option like paper and using one big enough to give the flow I desire. GD Actually, you CAN (but it ain't cheap) - what you do is a test program with 2 engines and do an oil particulate test at the same intervals and see what the contaminants are in the oil and what sizes they are. Then at some predetermined mileage, take out the engines and do a tear down for 1:1 comparison of component wear. (like I said, ain't "cheap" - and I suspect that it's been done, perhaps on "other" engine types) The filter manufacturers don't provide any particular warranty anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAWalker Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 So if an oiled air filter will cause contamination of MAF sensors................. Why has it not been a problem for the last 18 years with Subaru Genuine oiled paper filters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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