nnarth212 Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Fellas, I have broke my belt and I plan on doing these and the water pump this weekend. 5spd 4WD ea82 non T. A few questions: I know there are a few different pumps fit on these. Which one belongs on an 88' spfi wagon? What price is fair for a $tealer OEM part? She leaks oil pretty well though I haven't taken off the tbelt covers, what seals are recommended to be replaced while I am in here and is there a guide that can walk me through it? I already have the oil pump seals--what about the cams? What else may I want to do for the best possible finish? I am the 2nd owner of this 220k Mi. and for the last 10 mos have since driven her into the ground--I will probably get some used rear shocks for her next. Any and all info is appreciated. Thank you, CH:dead: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[HTi]Johnson Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 The water pump depends on if you have a mechanical fan attached to it or not, I believe. As for a parts source...check this link out. I recommend the "SubaruPartsForYou" site. Since you have the T-Belts off already, replace the oil pump seals, front crank seal, cam seals (There is a regular seal and a o-ring that sits behing the plate that holds the regular seal). So, once you replace the cam seals, front seal, and oil pump seals, it shouldn't leak anymore...or much...it's a Subaru, they always leak slightly. Here's a link to a timing belt procedure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 110 mm water pump, it is the longer shaft with studs and the pullet slides over the studs. typical of spi with m a t s u s h i t a AC otherwise if the pulley fits on with 4 bolts its the 105 mm typical of turbos with htachi compressors do the cam seals and oil pump too if they leak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nnarth212 Posted February 28, 2008 Author Share Posted February 28, 2008 I am from the BMW school--almost every seal has companion items that need replacing or a paper gasket for the seal carrier... no surprises in the suby school i take it. Has anyone linked or saved any part numbers? Thanks guys, CH Johnson']The water pump depends on if you have a mechanical fan attached to it or not' date=' I believe. As for a parts source...check this link out. I recommend the "SubaruPartsForYou" site. Since you have the T-Belts off already, replace the oil pump seals, front crank seal, cam seals (There is a regular seal and a o-ring that sits behing the plate that holds the regular seal). So, once you replace the cam seals, front seal, and oil pump seals, it shouldn't leak anymore...or much...it's a Subaru, they always leak slightly. Here's a link to a timing belt procedure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 pretty sure this is well covered. no need for subaru parts here - get subaru oil seals. but timing belt and water pump can be after market for this motor. actually the better place to put your money is on a complete timing belt kit - which will come with new timing pulleys. all of your pulleys are old and lack grease. having them seize is becoming more common as they age and no one replaces them. last EA82 ebay kit i bought i think was only $80 or something and included all new pulleys. you'll want cams seal kits, not just cam seals. behind the cap that holds the cam seal is an oring, this should be replaced as well. oil pump has 3 parts - shaft seal, mickey mouse gasket, and oring. then there's the crank seal - i'd go Subaru on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azsubaru Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 Fellas,is there a guide that can walk me through it?CH this should get you through easily, thanks to Miles Fox: http://www.economysuperstar.com/milesfox/subaru/service/service.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nnarth212 Posted February 29, 2008 Author Share Posted February 29, 2008 this should get you through easily, thanks to Miles Fox:http://www.economysuperstar.com/milesfox/subaru/service/service.htm Oh geeze--Excellent page Miles, just what the sick soob ordered. Thanks for all the help fellas--Grossgary, azsubaru for posting Miles' page that he didn't bother to share ! Good work fellas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 Johnson']The water pump depends on if you have a mechanical fan attached to it or not' date=' I believe. As for a parts source...check this link out. I recommend the "SubaruPartsForYou" site. Since you have the T-Belts off already, replace the oil pump seals, front crank seal, cam seals (There is a regular seal and a o-ring that sits behing the plate that holds the regular seal). So, once you replace the cam seals, front seal, and oil pump seals, it shouldn't leak anymore...or much...it's a Subaru, they always leak slightly. Here's a link to a timing belt procedure. +1 for wats mentioned above^^^ oil leaks,its what make a subaru,a subaru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nnarth212 Posted March 1, 2008 Author Share Posted March 1, 2008 OK--so wheel off, loose castle nut months ago is now proven failed bearing--I hear this is going to be fun. I see a trailing arm--where is the bearing? where is this funny nut that requires the special tool? I think I am begging for a diagram of a rear bearing.... I have searched--however everyone seems to avoid the basic questions--I guess i may get a manual before the bearing--reading suggestions? The strut on this wheel is t0otlly shot--are these 4x4 specific? I am hoping to grab a used one... cheapness is a factor--see above... maybe rather then buy a bearing new, an entire trailing arm and strut is the more cost effective route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 the rear strit will fit from another soob however you find it. the "nut" for the wheel bbearing is a big ring nut, like that of a fuel pump mointed in-nank that needs a tool to grip it. if you look on the back of the trailing arm you will see the notches for theis tool you should be able to find on e at napa labeled "import bearing tool" or something similar expressin ght eword "import" if you look at it you will see how the notches are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 It i also possible to remove and reinstall it with a punch. One of the notch will be *staked*, the edge bent down over it. Unstake it and use the punch to tap it around CC. If you go used, you will have to use a 4wd control arm/hub. If you only want to buy one strut you will also want to get from a 4wd. A 2wd strut will bolt in, but will actually raise the rear 2 inches, so if you want a higher rear, buy a pair of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nnarth212 Posted March 21, 2008 Author Share Posted March 21, 2008 Fellas, as some of you know I am a soobnoob--tackling my water pump/timing belt... Some background: old car, 220K, slowly losing coolant, over time, became losing lots of coolant, ie: frequent water top-offs. DUring this time a squealing noise beneath the hood was, over time, becoming louder. I just figured, squeal/water loss/no obvious bad hoses=water pump failure. Question: was this initial assessment in line with this board member's valuable experiences? I am a soobnoob, so I am certain I do not know the history of every hose--nor do I know the 'weak links' or the hard to find leaks. Which opens my initial assessment up to greater scrutiny, where is my water going? Do i need a water pump? I will take a longer look tonight and maybe post some photos of the pump... is there a definitive pump test or observational tool? So, prior to the t-belt breaking I was adding water almost daily to the cooling sys... I have no reason to believe it is the head gasket, no steam, good oil. I would like to find this leak before buying several hundred dollars in water pump/timing belt/gaskets and doing the work. I'm in a bind having let the belt broke before diagnosing the leak... now I don't want to fix a t belt if it's the HG and not the water pump... sigh! Any leads/tests too narrow this down is of much help. I think I will drain the oil tonight and be SURE the HG isn't gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nnarth212 Posted March 21, 2008 Author Share Posted March 21, 2008 Sorry for reusing my old thread--i thought it might be ok, but i realize i have just confused things. SIGH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Fellas, as some of you know I am a soobnoob--tackling my water pump/timing belt... Some background: old car, 220K, slowly losing coolant, over time, became losing lots of coolant, ie: frequent water top-offs. DUring this time a squealing noise beneath the hood was, over time, becoming louder. I just figured, squeal/water loss/no obvious bad hoses=water pump failure. Question: was this initial assessment in line with this board member's valuable experiences? Never jump to a conclusion like that. Subaru water pumps are fairly robust. Squealing PROBABLY was a timing belt tensioner and/or idler pulley. That may have caused the belt to fail. It is much more reasonable to assume your recent timing belt failure was the source of the noise. It could be the water pump as well, but you won't know till you pull it apart and inspect them. The good news is that it should be obvious, upon inspection, what the cause of the noise was. I am a soobnoob, so I am certain I do not know the history of every hose--nor do I know the 'weak links' or the hard to find leaks. Which opens my initial assessment up to greater scrutiny, where is my water going? Do i need a water pump? I will take a longer look tonight and maybe post some photos of the pump... is there a definitive pump test or observational tool? Not really. There is a weep hole on the bottom of the pump. If it's been leaking it should be pretty obvious. Beyond that - play in the pump shaft is easy to check - grab and shake. So, prior to the t-belt breaking I was adding water almost daily to the cooling sys... I have no reason to believe it is the head gasket, no steam, good oil. I would like to find this leak before buying several hundred dollars in water pump/timing belt/gaskets and doing the work. I'm in a bind having let the belt broke before diagnosing the leak... now I don't want to fix a t belt if it's the HG and not the water pump... sigh! Any leads/tests too narrow this down is of much help. I think I will drain the oil tonight and be SURE the HG isn't gone. You have a real problem on your hands with that one. Coolant loss could be anything from a leaky radiator or heater core, to a blown head gasket, or anything inbetween. HG's generally don't show coolant in the oil - you can blow them in several ways - coolant can leak into the cylinders and be burned, it can leak out onto the ground, or it can leak into the oil - if a head crack's it can leak directly into the valve exhaust port. Checking the oil will tell you nothing. You need to do a compression check, but you can't do that with the timing belt broken. Coolant can leak from hoses, from the intake manifold gaskets, throttle body base, radiator, heater core, water pump, head gaskets, ect. Without being able to run the engine, you have no good way to find the leak short of taking it all to peices and inspecting/replacing as you go. Even then if it's a leaky heater core you have to remove the whole dash to replace it. Best bet is to make it run (replace the timing belts) and then do a UV dye test. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nnarth212 Posted March 21, 2008 Author Share Posted March 21, 2008 "You have a real problem on your hands with that one." GD, once again, you have captured my concerns completely! I guess I needed someone to confirm that I had f'd this procedure up having not diagnosed all these issues prior to T belt failure--now I have to do the tbelt just to see if she'll ever be back on the road again. Side bar--the value of folks like GD can't be overstated--praise be to Allah for these excellent board members. I will likely make a leap of faith and do the T belt, oil seals and close her up--then try to find my water leak. Sigh. OH, and the Tbelt covers are cracked and never going back on. GD, do you think a compression test using compressed air may tell me something? Has anyone tried this? Thank you for your time, Nnnnnnarth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 i would rule out the head gasket UNLESS there is water in the oil, oil in the radistor or check for bubbles in the radiator withthe cap off whel the car is running from what you have stated already ths would be the only cause for alarm to the head gaskets. if you have bubbles, there is compression gases getting into the cooling system, and it will push coolant out the overflow. how much coolant per day did you have to add? i would suspect the water pump had been leaking. my luck hasnt been so great re-using old water pumps. you may as well get one, if you shop around you can probably have it for 30-40 bucks. check the little hose that goes from the thermostat housing to the top of the block. see if there is any coolant on the top of the block. it is also possible you have a bad intake gasket for mysterious coolant loss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nnarth212 Posted March 21, 2008 Author Share Posted March 21, 2008 i would rule out the head gasket UNLESS there is water in the oil, oil in the radistor I saw no oil in the rad. I haven't dumped the oil yet. check for bubbles in the radiator withthe cap off whel the car is running I let the T belt break--no running engine. how much coolant per day did you have to add? I added a full expansion tanks worth weekly--this slowed as the minerals from using straight water packed whatever is leaking.... i would suspect the water pump had been leaking. my luck hasnt been so great re-using old water pumps. you may as well get one, if you shop around you can probably have it for 30-40 bucks. That's what I think, the top weep hole is caked in the minerals from using straight water. Though the shaft has no play. check the little hose that goes from the thermostat housing to the top of the block. see if there is any coolant on the top of the block. it is also possible you have a bad intake gasket for mysterious coolant loss She has been sitting for 3 weeks, al water has evaprated BUT i will inspect for residue. How would I test the intake gasket? I will report back tomorrow! Thanks again Miles, your thoughts are appreciated and I am using your page all the time. Nnarth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Well if you're pump wasn' t bad before it is now from running straight water. If you need to replace the T-belt, you might as well replace the water pump too. Doesn't matter if you think it's good or not. You're already in there, so you might as well do it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nnarth212 Posted March 21, 2008 Author Share Posted March 21, 2008 Well if you're pump wasn't bad before it is now from running straight water. If you need to replace the T-belt, you might as well replace the water pump too. Doesn't matter if you think it's good or not. You're already in there, so you might as well do it now. Yes sir! Inless it's the HG--then I'm puring money into a whole through the 8th level of hell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Yes sir! Inless it's the HG--then I'm puring money into a whole through the 8th level of hell... Why?? You're not getting the point, you DEFINATELY need a Timing belt. So you SHOULD replace the water pump, whether it is the cause of you're leak or not. If you're tearing down to do a headgasket, you'd probably be doing timing belts and water pump as well. Meaning, you may be doing extra labor, but not spending*extra*money. So you've got nothing to lose putting a new belt and pump in. If it turn's out to need a headgasket, you've already done the pump and the new belts will just get reinstalled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 Well - if you want, you could rotate the cam gear by hand till each cylinder's set of valves is closed. That would allow you to check compression on that cylinder using the normal method of cranking with a pressure gauge in the plug hole. Do it with all the other plugs removed, and with BOTH timing belts removed so that all cylinders are tested the same. Readings will be high as the exhaust valves won't be opening. But it should still indicate a head gasket or valve faiure by comparing each cylinder to all the others. Ideally you don't want more tha 10 to 15% difference in any of them. That would at least give you an idea of the condition of the head gaskets. No guarantees, but if you show substantially less in one cylinder or on one whole bank then you can rest a lot easier with a decision to give up on the thing. Also - since you are leaving the covers off - water pump replacement is much easier. You could forgo that job if you are confident in the pump once you get in there to look at it. They aren't expensive though. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 the head gasket should be ok with what you have described so far. unless you forgot to mention driving along till she stalled and pegging the temp gauge, i highly doubt you blew the head gaskets go ahead with replacing the timing belts and water pump, may as well do the front seals while you are there. altogether it should not cost any more than 100 bucks for parts. maybe 150 depending on how you shop. do this and you will be fine. if you are worried about the head gaskets after all that, then look into a new radiator, as the radiator itself is the waekest link of the cooling systems and is generally the cause of most overheats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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