97 Outback Engine removal?

[skibumm]

I'm going to swap out an EJ25 in favor of the EJ22 on my 97 Outback AT, I got the EJ22 from a 95 AT car.

 

This will be my first engine pull on a Subaru, and could use some tips and tricks on getting the EJ25 out.

 

For one, I was wondering if I could leave the AC condenser, or does it have to come out to give enough clearance to remove the engine. I would like to just unbolt the compressor and tie it off to the side.

 

Thanks,

Brad

[idosubaru]

what's up st. clairsville, im not far from you!

 

yes leave the AC lines all connected and tie it out of the way. other than that, it's not that tricky. separating the engine may take awhile, just keep working your way around the bellhousing until it starts to separate. that's the most tedious part.

 

rust is your enemy here, a real time killer. rusted exhaust manifold bolts or motor mounts can ruin your day. hit them with PB Blaster, Deep Creep, or Liquid Wrench as many times as you can before starting the job. Preferrably a couple days before, hit them once a day or something.

 

Do the same with clamps in the engine bay - any that look salvageable anyway - radiator, heater hose and ATF lines. if they're really rusted, just twist and rip them off with channel locks.

 

make SURE you have the torque converter seated properly when reinstalling, there are numerous threads about this on here. not doing so will trash your trans.

 

pull the radiator to protect it from swinging engines.

[Skip]

This could turn into a great thread.

 

I just did the exact swap last summer.

 

Remove the battery and as Gary said put the AC comp

there (lines get mushed) it stays better if bundjie corded.

 

Remove rad (separate fan plugs from under side, make

note to reconnect)

 

Remove the black charcoal canister and bracket

(front pass side of engine)

 

PS pump needs the bracket swapped as does the AC

 

SWAP the flex plate!! (Don't ask why it's in caps)

 

The lower driver's side engine to tranny stud/nut

is not fun. Very tight in space and torque.

I use a flex socket and extensions from below.

Pass side (lower) can be reached from up above

after the air box and lines are removed.

 

Mark or photo the fuel lines (filter area by master cyl.)

 

Separating the engine tranny takes patience and some

sharp tools (screw drives to pry them apart)

One trick is to remove the lower studs -double nut unscrew

the studs)

There are two dowl pins half way down.

Remove dog bone (pitch stopper) at the tranny.

 

Jack the transmission up slightly keep it there

while the engine is removed.

 

 

The only way I have ever had complete success with the

exhaust bolts is to heat them cherry red with a

ox-cetelene torch.

 

I'm sure others will have more.

[skibumm]

what's up st. clairsville, im not far from you!

 

Hi!, I purchased this Outback a few weeks ago from a P.O.S. used car dealer in Wheeling (not the Subaru dealer). He did a good job of covering up the blown head gasket, coolant was clean in the overflow. I took it for couple of test drives, but did not drive it long enough each time. To make a long story short, First long drive I took was down to Snowshoe, it overheated, you know know the rest. Took it to Dave's Garage in Dunmore, he took out the thermostat so I could get back home with it, he noticed it had a brand new thermostat and new lower hoses and camps.

 

Found some kind of sealer on the underside of the radiator cap yesterday. Had the looks and feel of wet cardboard. Not sure what it was..

 

Anyhow, I believe the car is in great shape other wise so, so after a cool down period(ME). I decided my best option was to put a 95 2.2l engine in.

 

Was hoping to use this car as my ski car this year, but looks like it will have to wait till next winter for that use...

 

Brad

[lmdew]

Replace the radiator or have it cleaned by a shop.

[skibumm]

This could turn into a great thread.

 

 

SWAP the flex plate!! (Don't ask why it's in caps).

 

 

OK, wheres the flex plate! lol....

[johnceggleston]

i bookmarked this thread some time ago, but it's been a while since i read through it. hope it helps.

 

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=59033

[davebugs]

Here's a similar writeup that I found here about doing a 97 OB. This along with some other articles are what I used.

 

http://home.comcast.net/~skipnospam/Head_gasket_replacement.html

 

 

I didn't need to remove the starter when I pulled my 2.5 (but it's a manual transmission if that makes a difference).

 

Just unbolted PS pump, AC Compressor and bungie out of the way. I also Bundie'd the hood to the roof rack.

 

There is also a link here for the FSM somewhere. If you can't find it (or it's no longer here) PM me and give me an email that will hold 10MB or so.

 

I also followed an excellent Endwrench writeup but I think that was for the HG part of the job.

 

Other than exhaust manifold bolts (rusty) and that lower drivers nut(access) it's not bad at all.

 

Dave

[3Pin]

Why not just repair the HG on the 97 2.5 and put her back in?

[chef_tim]

Replace the radiator or have it cleaned by a shop.

 

+100. I did the snake oil experiment with mine when I knew the HG was gone, all it did was cloged up what was left of the cooling system. Thank goodness for CCR:banana:

[skibumm]

Why not just repair the HG on the 97 2.5 and put her back in?

 

Because the 2.2L is more reliable and not prone to HG failure. The 2.5L has 185,000 miles on it, I don't know how many times the car has overheated and the cost of the HG replacement could get quite high and time consuming.

Cost of the 95 2.2L AT w/91,804 and known service history was $400.00

 

I have also talked to a mechanic that specializes in Subaru's that has stopped doing HG on the 2.5. He said failure rate again is going to be high, he only does 2.2L swaps now.

[3Pin]

I agree that swapping a 2.5 with 185K on it, but, I had a couple of 2.5 HG's repaired and they were fine.

 

Good luck with the swap.

[screwbaru2]

"The lower driver's side engine to tranny stud/nut

is not fun. Very tight in space and torque.

I use a flex socket and extensions from below.

Pass side (lower) can be reached from up above

after the air box and lines are removed."

 

I've also used a comb of extentions (wobble) regular / univerisal and reached this nut/stud with the rachet at the tail of the tranny. Plenty of room to swing and get leverage. Good luck I'm doing this soon myself.

[screwbaru2]

I agree that swapping a 2.5 with 185K on it, but, I had a couple of 2.5 HG's repaired and they were fine.

Good luck with the swap.

 

So far!!

[skibumm]

Ok, I finally got around to taking out the 2.5 motor yesterday. Today I went to take off the flex plate to put on the 2.2., got all the bolts off but one and I striped the head on it, any suggestions to get it off now? Or instead of fighting it, should I just look for another flex plate.

[screwbaru2]

If you can get a good set of vise grips good and tight on whats left whack the end of the vise grip with a hammer. sounds hack but its worked for me in the past.

[crazyhorse001]

Yes, a 12pt 9/16 socket. Turn it until it doesn't fit, then, pound it on with a hammer, just don't expect to get the bolt back out of it. Of course you have 8 backups.

 

I just finished this swap 2 weeks ago. (OK so it was a '96 2.2) It was 100% plug & play electrically. No CEL, no nothing. It's a REALLY straight-forward swap.

[idosubaru]

i'd use heat and the poundthecrapoutofasocket method paul mentioned.

 

in this case though you'll need to heat and then let it cool, just trying to break it loose. expanding the bolt won't help it come out in the way you typically use heat - trying to break it loose while it's hot. don't do that here. just heat and let it cool back down.

 

chisel/grind/drill the head off, but that shouldn't be necessary.

[Gloyale]

Because the 2.2L is more reliable and not prone to HG failure.

 

 

Maybe It's because I get more clients with older cars, but I've actually had to replace more 2.2 HGs than 2.5's. The fact is that 2.2s will blow headgaskets and overheat just like a 2.5. Sometimes at 150k, sometimes at 250k, some never do, but they still could just like any 2.5.

 

Ever since the 70's, people have been saying Subarus have Headgaskets issues. Guess what?? They are right. Good thing Headgaskets are not that hard.

 

I don't know why people consider it *easier* or *better* to swap to a 2.2

 

$400 plus the labor($300-500) to put it in

 

vs.

 

$200 in parts and machining + labor($400-700)

 

Seems the cost is about the same. And you get the advantage of a reseal and get to keep a few extra ponies.

 

I personally wouldn't install a used motor without a reseal including HGs. So at that point better to keep the 2.5 since you're tearing down a motor anyhow.

 

 

I have also talked to a mechanic that specializes in Subaru's that has stopped doing HG on the 2.5. He said failure rate again is going to be high, he only does 2.2L swaps now.

 

Most places it's the other way round because of Emmissions and DOT regulations. Plus liability if random issues pop up(CELS, Stalling, etc...)

[crazyhorse001]

The thing about the 2.5 head gasket issues is, they're random. The engine never has to overheat to pop the HG's. In working on my Lego, I noticed that the engine had been out at least once before. I also noticed that it had aftermarket gaskets in places. This leads me to belive, that the HG's have been done at least once prior to me buying it.

 

Any aluminum engine will pop the HG's if it's overheated badly, or often enough. The 2.2 is no exception. The 2.2 rarely just pops the HG's for no apparent reason. This makes the 2.2 a better alternative to the 2.5, from a reliability standpoint.

 

Just my 2bits.

[screwbaru2]

When 2.2's blow hgs there's usually a reason. Bad themosat, cap, hose caused overheating etc.. 2.5's don't need that kind of help, on their own they'll start leaking CAUSING the engine to overheat. Didn't mean to be repetive crazyhorse didn't read your post. I agree!

[Gloyale]

When 2.2's blow hgs there's usually a reason. Bad themosat, cap, hose caused overheating etc..

 

I've done at least 2 where the cause was the headgasket, and the symptom was overheating. Niether car was driven while hot. The one car the owner babied around with only occasional issues for about 6 months, before the gasket let loose completely.

 

But neither had T-stat issues, Waterpumps, hoses, etc.. where all good. HGs just went. It happens. Ask Uberoo about his EJ swap.

[crazyhorse001]

I've done at least 2 where the cause was the headgasket, and the symptom was overheating. Niether car was driven while hot. The one car the owner babied around with only occasional issues for about 6 months, before the gasket let loose completely.

 

But neither had T-stat issues, Waterpumps, hoses, etc.. where all good. HGs just went. It happens. Ask Uberoo about his EJ swap.

 

I'm not saying it doesn't happen with the 2.2. It's just much more rare that it does. Any aluminum engine can pop the gasket randomly, it's a thermodynamic fact. The better engineered engines take this into consideration.

 

My best guess on the 2.5 issues is, something in the heads flexes, or they don't expand uniformly. This causes the head to wear the gasket thin. Eventually the gasket simply can't hold the combustion anymore. Once it gets to that point, it's a losing battle.

[screwbaru2]

I've done at least 2 where the cause was the headgasket, and the symptom was overheating. Niether car was driven while hot. The one car the owner babied around with only occasional issues for about 6 months, before the gasket let loose completely.

 

But neither had T-stat issues, Waterpumps, hoses, etc.. where all good. HGs just went. It happens. Ask Uberoo about his EJ swap.

I stand by statement usually there's a reason , not always but usually. There's exceptions in just about everything. But when talking 2.2.vs 2.5's its safe to say that 2.5's blow HG for no apperant reason more often than 2.2's

[skibumm]

 

chisel/grind/drill the head off, but that shouldn't be necessary.

 

yep, had to used the old chisel method, came right off after about 10 hard wacks...lol..