How does this sale sound?

[EYE_WHY]

I'm in the market for a newerish Subaru. Even though my 94 Loyale only has about 60k Miles, it needs lots of body work and has just started developing some oil leaks probably because all the seals have dried up.

 

Anyways, I think its time to move on to another Subaru before dumping too much into this one. I've found a 2000 outback with 125K on the clock and AT. Looks to be in good condition, no rust. Oil changes every 3K and it was bought new by an older couple. All regular scheduled maintanance has been done. Only thing I am unsure about is timing belts because I only talked to the wife of the seller and she was unsure.

 

Asking price is $4500 firm. I checked KBB and this seems to be a pretty good deal. Anything I should ask about or look for in particular? Thanks guys.

[subaru360]

That is a fair price. The one owner older people thing is good too.

[aircraft engineer]

Timing belt is relatively easy (I just did a 2.2 and wouldn't have any reservations about a 2.5) and not too expensive for the parts either.

 

Check the radiator overflow for evidence of oil (head gasket)

 

4500 is pretty reasonable for 125k, but expect to do the timing belt - no matter what - if they were keeping to book maintenance, you have a few though left before you HAVE TO DO IT, but it's cheap insurance to DO IT AS SOON AS YOU BUY IT (particularly if you can do it yourself) because it's that ^&$^%*$#^ interference engine and you BREAK THE ENGINE IF YOU BREAK THE BELT!!

[Bluestone]

Needless to say;) , inquire whether it's had either or both of the headgaskets replaced. If not, you may be skating on VERY thin ice.

As you probably know, hg replacement will ad a fairly nice chunk of money to the $4500 purchase price, unless you're gonna do it yourself.

Any way, try to determine if there is any evidence of coolant leakage or higher than normal operating temps.

[EYE_WHY]

my dad, who drove the car, also said there was a pretty noticeable tapping sound. Maybe lifters? Could this be potentially serious?

[Hotshot]

I'm not sure I have ever heard of any real engine damage other than what can be caused by the headgaskets on the ej25. As long as the oil was changed regularly, and you didn't notice the noise yourself, I doubt that it is anything serious given that older folks tend to be a little easier on their cars.

 

Is you dad familiar with the quirks that subaru engines tend to have? I know that my dad thought something was wrong with a brand new tribeca because there was the usual little bit of piston slap when it was started.

[dmanaenk]

Tapping that goes away when warmed up - piston slap, its a feature. Tapping sound that does not go away, hm. I'd walk away, although it could be that engine just needs valve adjustment. As for coolant leak, go for a test drive, then park, put some paper towels under the pass side head, and see. Also you might be able to smell it while driving.

[subaru360]

Some tapping is normal. It could need the valves adjusted, 2000 should be solid lifters. A little cold piston slap is normal too. Sometimes on those the timing belt tensioner goes bad and makes a knocking noise. If you are still considering the car take it to somebody who can tell you if it's a "normal" subaru noise or something going bad.

[porcupine73]

The more typical HG failure mode on that engine 2.5L sohc phase II would be the external peeping leak typically at the LH/driver head rear. If the owner doesn't remember having the timing belt done, most likely it was not, since people usually remember $500+ maintenance/repairs

 

If it's an auto trans, check it for slow engagement to drive. Also check front sway bar, a number of those have fractured on the '00obw's. And torque bind/tire matching check as always for soobs.

[idosubaru]

that's an interference engine and needs the timing belt replaced immediately.

 

check for torque bind. (you can search here for descriptions, testing)

 

the tapping is piston slap or valve noise - piston slap goes away or gets quieter when warm, is not uncommon and doesn't cause any issues. valves may need adjusted.

 

this should be a phase II EJ25, the plus side to those is that when the head gaskets start leaking they leak externally, don't overheat (unless you let the coolant get way low) and generally can be driven for a very long time like that.

 

Subaru adds a coolant conditioner to all Phase II EJ25's - i'd be sure to do a coolant change and add that conditioner.

 

if you have thoughts of keeping your loyale - that might not be a terrible option. the oil seals that are leaking are probably right behind the timing belt...which you'll have to change on the new car anyway - so you're not really saving any labor there. the other common leak is the valve covers...and those only take a few minutes to replace.

 

and with 125,000 miles it probably needs the ATF flushed, PCV valve, fuel filter, timing belts, spark plugs, ignition wires and diff fluids replaced...and the brakes will be in various states as well, as will be the CV boots, radiator hoses, clamps...etc.

 

if your loyale is running decent you might not save much in maintenance and costs that way. but you will be getting a much larger, nicer, and safer vehicle.

[EYE_WHY]

that's an interference engine and needs the timing belt replaced immediately.

 

check for torque bind. (you can search here for descriptions, testing)

 

the tapping is piston slap or valve noise - piston slap goes away or gets quieter when warm, is not uncommon and doesn't cause any issues. valves may need adjusted.

 

this should be a phase II EJ25, the plus side to those is that when the head gaskets start leaking they leak externally, don't overheat (unless you let the coolant get way low) and generally can be driven for a very long time like that.

 

Subaru adds a coolant conditioner to all Phase II EJ25's - i'd be sure to do a coolant change and add that conditioner.

 

if you have thoughts of keeping your loyale - that might not be a terrible option. the oil seals that are leaking are probably right behind the timing belt...which you'll have to change on the new car anyway - so you're not really saving any labor there. the other common leak is the valve covers...and those only take a few minutes to replace.

 

and with 125,000 miles it probably needs the ATF flushed, PCV valve, fuel filter, timing belts, spark plugs, ignition wires and diff fluids replaced...and the brakes will be in various states as well, as will be the CV boots, radiator hoses, clamps...etc.

 

if your loyale is running decent you might not save much in maintenance and costs that way. but you will be getting a much larger, nicer, and safer vehicle.

Ya, my parents really don't like the no airbag aspect of the loyale (even though I've had it for almost 3 years now). Problems are also really starting to pile up on it and honestly, as much as I love that car, I would rather get something a little more solid and safer.

 

Also, just got off the phone with the seller and he said timing belt and headgaskets were done at 80K so that is definitely a bigggg plus. He said brakes were kind iffy but rotors had been replaced at some point so hopefully its just pads which I can tackle myself.

 

 

Thanks for the advice guys

[four-fleet-feet]

Also, just got off the phone with the seller and he said timing belt and headgaskets were done at 80K so that is definitely a bigggg plus. He said brakes were kind iffy but rotors had been replaced at some point so hopefully its just pads which I can tackle myself.

OK, the word is 'said.' Now, I'm not one to automatically doubt the word of a car's current owner, but I'd ask to see copies of the receipts. If they can't provide them, ASK THEM WHERE the work was done and call the dealer. Make sure you have the full correct VIN to check it out. The dealer should be able to pull up the old work order(s).

 

Dragon supposedly had a timing belt service by Puyallup Subaru before I bought her. They didn't have any record of it; when aircraft-engineer and I got inside, what would have been included in a dealer service hadn't been done. Relatively new Subie timing belt with absolutely nothing else done. We no longer wondered why she was leaking oil. Of course the seller couldn't find the paperwork to give me. No way would a dealer have thrown the belt on without anything else. She, um, 'was less than fully truthful.' Idiot! I'd have still bought her car. I just would have paid less.

 

If the repairs really weren't done, you are looking a money pit and headache in the face. If they were done, it sounds like a nice car. Be aware that you will need to do the belt service again - it's not a one-time thing.

 

Airbags alone are worth the car swap if you can prove the work was done. I loved my old truck, but I was lucky I walked away from a collision with a Peterbuilt (his fault). I had a cross-body bruise from collar bone to right hip from the belt impact (no airbags in my 91 Chevy S-10). If I hadn't just buckled up (so there was no slack in the belt) I'd have been hurt much worse than I was.

[EYE_WHY]

In case anyone was wondering, I pulled the trigger on this. Unfortunately I am away at school and haven't been able to drive it buy my parents say it drives like a top.

 

 

 

you can also see my Loyale in the right corner, tryin to get rid of it.