my high beams are causing me nightmares

[Mariposa]

I have a beloved loyale, a 91, and it's my second one.

 

I am not, by any means, a great mechanic, but I love to fiddle with my cars, and fix them myself...oh the satisfaction

 

I have come upon an electrical problem (which are my least favorite); my high beams don't work.

 

I changed the bulds, no help.

Fuses, ok.

I recently changed the combination switch (on the streering shaft) with a used one, which could very well be the source of the problem, but I don't it is, cause when I bought the car this summer, I found several spare headlight bulbs in the glove compartment, which makes me think that she's been having high beam problems before.

 

I am thinking that it might be the relay....but am not sure how to find it. I checked the diagram in my haines manual, but, I am no electrician, and I can't really understand the diagrams....

 

I think that the relay might be behind the kick panel, driver side, but I am not sure what it looks like, and how to tell if it's working or not...actually, I am not sure what a "relay" does...

 

I recently did some electrical work on my vanagon, and bought a test light...(love it) which I can use on the subi....I am just not sure what to do with it. Should I check if I am getting a current at the bulb?

 

If anybody can point me in the right direction, I would be very grateful!

 

Marie

[john in KY]

If this was an XT or XT6 the headlight relay is located behind the fuse panel. I suspect it is in the same location for your Loyale. Look for something that looks like a small cube. The XT has 4 or 5 relays in that location and your Loyale probably has the same amount. Can't recall which is the headlight relay.

[zstalker]

...actually, I am not sure what a "relay" does...

Here is how a relay works. really cool little things, really. That site (howstuffworks.com) is really incredible. any questions about how anything on a car (or anything else for that matter) works, it's there.

 

I recently did some electrical work on my vanagon, and bought a test light...(love it) which I can use on the subi....I am just not sure what to do with it. Should I check if I am getting a current at the bulb?

 

If anybody can point me in the right direction, I would be very grateful!

 

Marie

if both your high-beams are not working, but both the low-beams are, it's possible, but not likely that you'd be getting any current at the bulb...suggesting that both bulbs are just burned out. more likely, something has stopped them both from working. switch? possible. fuse? likely, but you said you've already checked those, so not in this case. Relay is really the only other member of that system, and if it stops working, it'll kill the whole circuit. Find the relays (like stated above, I think they're behind the fuseblock on your car), find which one runs the high-beams, and switch it (temporarily) with another one nearby. it'll probably plug right in, manufacturers only use a couple different types per car. if the high-beams now work with the "new" relay, you've found your culprit.

~Erik~

[Frank B]

Aren't they under the steering wheel? Up under the dash above the pedals. I believe there are two together. And they are silver in color. When I replaced mine, the parts store wanted close to $30 a piece! if you look at the relay, the connection, or blades are in a different configuration than a standard 5 blade. These are a 4 blade relay. Anyway, I went to the fog and driving light section of the parts store and found a 30 AMP relay made by Pilot that was less than a third of the price.

[Gloyale]

stop looking for the relay. (they are up under the dash to the left of the column, pull the lower panel to get to them) You don't need to find them.

 

The relay(s) for the headlights supply power for each side. If either beam on a side works, it means the relay for that side is working. In fact the 12v for either beam comes from the same wire, it is the ground that is switched for hi/lo. Since you're low works, relay is not the issue.

 

I believe you're problem is a broken or corroded wire in the HI beam circuit.

 

The HI beam witch in the stalk should activate both when pushed or pulled(momentary). So I think if it were the switch itself, the HI would work when one of the 2 ways ,not both set of contacts failed. That indicates it must be the wire to me, since it' unlikely both sets of contacts burnt out.

 

Whose got the lighting diagrahm??

[Gloyale]

Check the Red w/White wire at the headlight switch column connector for continuity to ground when you hit the high beams. (hook you're test light clip to a +12V source and touch the probe to the Red w/White wire). If you have continuity (tester lights) then the problem is further down the line.

 

Repeat the test for ground at the connector for the bulbs. Test the Red w/White wire. If you're tester doesn't light I suspect at the junction where the wire splits for each side.

 

Follow the Red w/White wire from the headlight bulb socket back into the harness. I'd start on the driver side and peel back the tape 'til you find the split.

[Mariposa]

Thanks guys!

 

I'm planning on spending tomorrow afternoon on this project, test light in hand, I'll let you know how it turns out!

[Mariposa]

Hey Guys, quick update...

 

Spent a whole day playing with the test lamp, combinations switches and finally understand the electrical diagram!!! (I am pretty pround to actually understand what all those diagrams mean. This little gal has a lot to learn still.

 

 

you were right GLOYALE, relays are okay, bad ground....now I have to find where. I am a little scared of fooling around in there, there is an impressive amount of wires....But, hey, I miss the highbeams!

 

I'll keep you posted!

[Cougar]

Keep up the good work on learning about the wiring system Mariposa. You will be able to fix things pretty quickly after getting a little familiar with things in the electrical world.

 

The bad ground connection may be in the light switch or in a connector to the lights. One way to eliminate the light switch is to see if the high beams work in the flash position, which is the other switch position for the high beams. If the highs work in the flash position then the switch is at fault since the two positions share the same path to the lights. If the lights still don't work then the trouble is a wire connection between the switch and the lights.

 

The red/wht wire that Gloyale mentioned is the return path (ground) for the high beams. Until there is a current flow in the circuit, there will be 12 volts floating on that wire. When the circuit is closed by the switch and it makes the ground connection, current will flow and the voltage will then be across the light filament, or load, in this case. This may sound a little strange right now to you but don't be too concerned. You will know later on as you tinker in the strange science of electrons and understand Ohm's Law.

 

I commend you on your willingness to try and understand. Getting a book that covers DC theory will help you a lot in leaning about it.

 

Edit:

My info shows that the r/w wire ties to a 8 pin connector that is on the far left side under the dash. Where all the other wires come through. If you can find it you may be able to just unplug the connector and replug it back together to fix this problem.

[Mariposa]

Thanks Cougar! I am totally enjoying this challenge …all my spare time is spent with my test light in hand. It’s so great to have an “a-ha!” moment!

 

The high beams do not work when the flashers are on...which eliminates the switch problem. I suspected this much, since I spent an afternoon, pulling 3 comb. switches off of other 91.

 

I understand the part about the 12v floating in the circuit, until the ground is connected (by the switch). (headlights are always powered-the switch changes the ground location- right?)The h-beam ground is not working, therefore the current can’t flow through.

 

What I don't understand is that the dashboard indicator (for the high beams) comes on when I flick to high beams, which, according to my understanding of the elec. diagram, means that the ground is ok. (it appears to me that the dashboard indicator and the high beams share the same ground (or they do, on the diagram).

 

I am therefore having a real hard time understanding where I need to look to find the bad ground connection.

 

(I have a six pin, and a eight pin connector for the combination switch. The only red/white is connected to the six pin.)

 

I am working graveyard, and intend on spending the night looking at the diagram some more.

[Cougar]

You are correct in your thinking they way things work. Until the ground is made and current flows, the lead from the lights will stay high since the circuit is open. The H-beam indicator does run to the same ground but the two points have separated somewhere. The indicator light is tied to the working side of the break in the circuit. My guess is the break is at the 8 pin connector.

 

I think the 8 pin connector I was refering to is different than the one you are looking at. The one that I am talking about should be near the firewall on the far left side of the dash.

[Mariposa]

 

Edit:

My info shows that the r/w wire ties to a 8 pin connector that is on the far left side under the dash. Where all the other wires come through. If you can find it you may be able to just unplug the connector and replug it back together to fix this problem.

 

 

Problem fixed (oh, I am so happy!!!)

 

Problem was at that 8 pin connector. The r/w connection was faulty!

 

Thanks a million Cougar and GLoyale! Could not have done it w/out your helpful tips!!!

 

PS. COUGAR were did you find info on the 8 pin connector? The wiring diagrams that I was looking at in the Haines did not provide this info.

[Cougar]

Very good troubleshooting Mariposa and you are welcome for the help. You have already learned a lot just on this repair. You will be an ace troubleshooter in no time.

 

The info I gave you was from my factory service manual. There is no substitute for these manuals. They cost more, but think about the time you saved by using that information I gave you. Value in labor time saved.....priceless!

[Mariposa]

 

The info I gave you was from my factory service manual. There is no substitute for these manuals. They cost more, but think about the time you saved by using that information I gave you. Value in labor time saved.....priceless!

 

 

Hey Cougar. I am dying to get one of those. I have been checking ebay daily to find one for a 91 loyale, to no avail...where did you get yours?

[GeneralDisorder]

Hey Cougar. I am dying to get one of those. I have been checking ebay daily to find one for a 91 loyale, to no avail...where did you get yours?

 

You can buy them still from the dealer. Also check in the for sale forum here - there's posts there at times selling sets.

 

You may need to purchase an 89 FSM, and then find the supplements that address changes for 90 and 91 as there probably wasn't true FSM's made for the Loyale years.

 

GD

[Mariposa]

 

You may need to purchase an 89 FSM, and then find the supplements that address changes for 90 and 91 as there probably wasn't true FSM's made for the Loyale years.

 

GD

 

thks for the tip....found a good deal for 91 FSM on ebay...would it be good for a 90 d'you think?

[Cougar]

thks for the tip....found a good deal for 91 FSM on ebay...would it be good for a 90 d'you think?

 

That should be fine as they are all real close. My manual is for an '88. One thing to note is a complete manual set consists of 6 sections that are divided into 4 seperate manuals for those years. The most used manuals are section 2 which covers the engine and, section 6 which covers the electrical in manual 4. Hopefully you got the complete set with your purchase. The wiring manual is the most crutial to have I think since that is where the details really come in handy. If you didn't get them all don't worry, there will be more on Ebay real soon.

 

I just recently got a good deal on a complete set of manuals for a '05 Baja on Ebay. The manuals for the newer cars have 8 seperate manuals. I also got the manuals for my '01 LL Bean on Ebay. Dealer costs for these manuals would normally be around 400 dollars. You can get them used on Ebay for under 200 dollars.

[Mariposa]

That should be fine as they are all real close. My manual is for an '88. One thing to note is a complete manual set consists of 6 sections that are divided into 4 seperate manuals for those years. The most used manuals are section 2 which covers the engine and, section 6 which covers the electrical in manual 4. Hopefully you got the complete set with your purchase. The wiring manual is the most crutial to have I think since that is where the details really come in handy. If you didn't get them all don't worry, there will be more on Ebay real soon.

 

I just recently got a good deal on a complete set of manuals for a '05 Baja on Ebay. The manuals for the newer cars have 8 seperate manuals. I also got the manuals for my '01 LL Bean on Ebay. Dealer costs for these manuals would normally be around 400 dollars. You can get them used on Ebay for under 200 dollars.

 

Allright, think I am gonna purshase the FSM for the 90, like you said, it should be pretty close...it looks like the 4 books for 84$ plus shipping...pretty nice deal...

 

Thanks for the tips, Cougar....I just realized you're in AK....I live in Whitehorse, guess we're neighbours...

[Cougar]

That is a pretty fair price. You will love having these on your shelf ready for when you need them again. The time and money the manuals will save you will recover your investment in no time. You are welcome for the tips.

[Gloyale]

You may need to purchase an 89 FSM, and then find the supplements that address changes for 90 and 91 as there probably wasn't true FSM's made for the Loyale years.

 

You can get them for 90 Loyale for sure.

 

I believe it's Supplements only after that(although virtually nothing changed after 90 except more options dropped)