Puh-leese, Hep a bruthuh out !!!

[HiPlainsShifter]

That is correct. As long as the wires are arranged in the propper order it doesnt matter.

 

However, if the cap isnt perfectly seated, it will be off center and when the rotor rotates, it will grab the edge of the cap and destroy the rotor and/or the cap.

 

-Brian

 

The Napa parts are installed, every thing rotates just fine:banana: , engine turns over, and over and over and over:rolleyes: but doesn't start. I've checked and rechecked the wires for firing order, checked the coil: It's sparkin like crazy, I didn't gap the spark plugs, cuz my feeler gauges are with the tools in my van(30 miles away at me mums place). Before I put in new plugs, wires, cap and rotor, the car would start with just a bump of the key. Ideas anyone?:-\

[TheSubaruJunkie]

try spraying some starter fluid in the intake and if it fires up, you have a fuel problem.

[HiPlainsShifter]

try spraying some starter fluid in the intake and if it fires up, you have a fuel problem.

 

Ah,excuse me Mr. Junkie , I don't mean to be obtuse but what could possibly have happened to interfere with the fuel process? Are you suggesting a fuel pump issue? If so, what might have prompted it?

 

Thanx Brian

[john in KY]

Even though you have rechecked the firing order, my money is on the firing order is wrong. I mean all you did was change the cap and rotor.

[HiPlainsShifter]

Even though you have rechecked the firing order, my money is on the firing order is wrong. I mean all you did was change the cap and rotor.

 

John, a couple of these plugs are hard to get to[2&4}( I have large hands) and the new wires I purchased have extra long contact sleeves/boots on the spark plug end.

I know this probably sounds silly, but I'm not posilutely sure that I actually got all of the contacts on the plugs because of the long boots. Whadya think?

[Bucky92]

Rico...try this trick if you think that those boots could be the problem...Get the boot wet right at the base where the wire comes through..use WD40..push the boot back till the contact is flush with the edge of the boot..or even sticking out some...clip it on the plug then gently push the boot back over the plug. Depending on where you got the wires ..I have had that issue before.. If that doesnt work...put in in the van and bring it to me...I will get it running for you:-p;)

[HiPlainsShifter]

Rico...try this trick if you think that those boots could be the problem...Get the boot wet right at the base where the wire comes through..use WD40..push the boot back till the contact is flush with the edge of the boot..or even sticking out some...clip it on the plug then gently push the boot back over the plug. Depending on where you got the wires ..I have had that issue before.. If that doesnt work...put in in the van and bring it to me...I will get it running for you:-p;)

 

"Guess Who's Coming for Dinner":banana:

Okey Dokey ... I had to do that with the coil wire but the others weren't as easy...now whar's dat dubya-D AT?

Oops, it's raining outside (and dark too)

[john in KY]

It' a possibility but the first time I replaced timing belts, and not knowing at the time the engine needed to be rotated after installing the first belt, that engine fired right up on just two cylinders. Still believe the firing order is wrong. Thinking since you had replaced the cap and rotor so many times you got the wiring order at the cap 180 degrees off.

[Bucky92]

What John says too..I have done it myself and even after a check..recheck..and recheck it was wrong. You know this is all going to be something really simple that when its solved you are going to be :banghead:when all said and done.

[john in KY]

I've done it more then once. Working on something and then not getting back to it for days/weeks and forgetting/confusing where I stopped.

[Skip]

checked the coil: It's sparkin like crazy,

 

Check for spark at the spark plug end of the wire.

 

Sounds like the spark NRG is not making the trip through the

dist. cap.

 

WAGs

wrong rotor to cap

missing contact button in dist

rotor screw MIA

 

 

My guess is you have no access to a timing light.

This would be a great help in tracking the spark

demon down.

[HiPlainsShifter]

Check for spark at the spark plug end of the wire.

Sounds like the spark NRG is not making the trip through the

dist. cap.

 

WAGs

wrong rotor to cap

missing contact button in dist

rotor screw MIA

My guess is you have no access to a timing light.

This would be a great help in tracking the spark

demon down.

 

Skip

You're absotively-posilutely right! No timing light, and wouldn't know what to do with it if I had one. I've never had this kind of issue when just changing plugs, wires and cap. My suspicion is still with the parts... but I will follow up the tips from Connie and John.

1. Verified prescence of coil contact

2. Rotor screw in place and secure (shaft stable[no wobble]in rotation)

3. NO Timing Light:rolleyes:

4. It's raining out:-p

5. And if it ever stops raining (started Friday afternoon) I'll check the spark plug end for juice:)

[hooziewhatsit]

just to double-check, here's the timing order (haven't seen it posted yet)

 

1, 3, 2, 4

 

transmission

3 4

1 2

front bumper

 

#1 on the distributor cap should be nearest the brake master cylinder. Rotor then spins CCW.

 

Also make sure the rotor moves when you crank the car. If it doesn't, your drivers side timing belt decided to blow (just happened to me).

 

-Dave

[HiPlainsShifter]

just to double-check, here's the timing order (haven't seen it posted yet)

 

1, 3, 2, 4

 

transmission

3 4

1 2

front bumper

 

#1 on the distributor cap should be nearest the brake master cylinder. Rotor then spins CCW.

 

Also make sure the rotor moves when you crank the car. If it doesn't, your drivers side timing belt decided to blow (just happened to me).

 

-Dave

 

Well I don't know what else to do :-\ :-\ :-\ I've checked and rechecked the wires and firing order, today I rechecked the coil to insure that there is spark to the cap. I also checked the wires on the plug end while bumping the ignition and all have spark. Still, The Car won't start :twisted: I don't know what else to do :confused: I'm going to pull the plugs if it's not raining tomorrow (it just started raining again) Just to see if they show evidence of sparking and I'll also check the gap(even though I believe the gap would have to be way wide to prevent ignition. I have a rental vehicle which I must return tomorrow and I am totally stumped by this issue.

:-\ I can say that this afternoon when I tried to start the car, I held the ignition for 15 to 20 seconds, and then I smelled the strong odor of fuel.

 

I took some pics of the wire placement on the cap and engine. I would not mind lookin like an idiot if someone could come up with a workable solution for me so that I can have transpo again. I've run out of ideas

:evil: :banghead:

[john in KY]

I still think the problem is you have the spark plug wires at the cap in the wrong holes. Also thinking you are using that "1" stamped on the cap as the starting point. Because the cap can be installed 2 ways, there is a 50/50 chance the "1" can be on the wrong side.

 

Pull the wires from the cap. Remove cap, turn it 180 degrees, and reinstall it with the "1" on the other side. Reinstall wires starting with the "1" now on the other side of the distributor and see if that solves the problem.

[DaveT]

Assuming the plug wires are correct, and the disty rotor turns-

 

In a previous message you mentioned strong odor of fuel. Any chance it got flooded? I have had a few times (in 20 years) where something just didn't go right when starting. When this happens, the engine seems dead as can be. I had to hold the pedal to the floor and crank for an abnormally long time (take breaks to let the starter cool). Even then, it would g r a d u a l l y start sputtering, little better, rough, finally get the RPMs up to clean it out.

 

I have also found that a 1-2 second shot of carb cleaner in the throttle body can sometimes get things firing after a flooding.

 

Pull a spark plug, if it's wet with fuel, it's flooded.

 

If the timing belt/s are broken or significantly slipped, the cranking will not be a nice even RrrrRrrrRrrrRrrr. It will have a weird, uneven rhythm.

[HiPlainsShifter]

Assuming the plug wires are correct, and the disty rotor turns-

 

In a previous message you mentioned strong odor of fuel. Any chance it got flooded? I have had a few times (in 20 years) where something just didn't go right when starting. When this happens, the engine seems dead as can be. I had to hold the pedal to the floor and crank for an abnormally long time (take breaks to let the starter cool). Even then, it would g r a d u a l l y start sputtering, little better, rough, finally get the RPMs up to clean it out.

 

I have also found that a 1-2 second shot of carb cleaner in the throttle body can sometimes get things firing after a flooding.

 

Pull a spark plug, if it's wet with fuel, it's flooded.

 

If the timing belt/s are broken or significantly slipped, the cranking will not be a nice even RrrrRrrrRrrrRrrr. It will have a weird, uneven rhythm.

 

When the wires and disty are in the proper position, the engine turning over sounds really smooth, it just never kicks in and starts. When I first put the new cap and rotor on the rotor immediately was stripped of the contact, and the cap was cracked. It was either the wrong part was installed backwards or something.

 

I've got the car where it will start. I've had to shift all the wires three positions ccw in addition to changing the upper disty assembly. The original position was with the front disty screw in the center of the slot, now the assembly is turned toward the back of the car so that the screw is at the very forward end(front of car) of the slot. I'm just learning so don't laugh too hard... is this position advancing the timing or retarding the timing, and .... how safe is it to drive like this?

[DaveT]

I've had to shift all the wires three positions ccw in addition to changing the upper disty assembly.

 

Do you mean that you removed the disty? or are you refering to the cap & rotor when you mention the assembly.

 

I won't laugh, you have to start somewhere.

 

Maybe whatever jammed up the works and broke the cap twisted something... Couldn't have slipped a timing belt, since it cranks smooth. If that had happend, it would be uneven, since only one belt would have slipped.

 

If it runs ok, the major worry would be whatever is out of whack may fail at an inconvient time.

 

It might be good to do a TDC check. Remove the key. Remove the cover at the top back center so you can see the timing marks on hte flywheel. Use a wrench to turn the crankshaft until you see the 0 degrees timing mark. Remove spark plug #1. Check that the piston is at the top or bottom of it's stroke. If it is at bottom, use the wrench to turn the crank 1 revolution. Verify that the #1 piston is at the top. Now go look at the distributor, pull the cap. the rotor should be pointing to the contact for plug wire #1.

[HiPlainsShifter]

Nope, I didn't remove the distributor itself, just the cap and rotor. Thanx for the tip. I will run the check as soon as there is adequate light, and warmth outside, provided it isn't raining:) I would like to be able to do this myself and not have to take it to some shop. Now that will be a confidence builder.