aberti Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 OK I'm about to give up... 96 Legacy 2.2 auto missing on # 1 & 2. No spark whatsoever...Swapped coils plugs, wires, cam sensor, crank sensor. Good compression 150+. Pulling my hair out on this one......Could the timing be off a bit? I forget when I last changed the timing belt, could it have slipped enough to throw off # 1 & #2 cyl spark? Any input would be great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 OK I'm about to give up... 96 Legacy 2.2 auto missing on # 1 & 2. No spark whatsoever...Swapped coils plugs, wires, cam sensor, crank sensor. Good compression 150+. Pulling my hair out on this one......Could the timing be off a bit? I forget when I last changed the timing belt, could it have slipped enough to throw off # 1 & #2 cyl spark? Any input would be great! It's not the timing belt. Since you wapped coils, that' not it either. But IIRC, 1 and 2 fire as a pair, and the unused spark is "wasted". I am going to say you've got a broken or corroded wire, probably the one that signals 1+2 to fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Or a bad ecu. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Well, not sure if this helps but since many common things seem to be covered already (article from endwrench): Legacy and Impreza Engines with No Injection Pulse #1 Cylinder Built into the fuel injection control unit is logic that will shut off the #1 injector if the computer believes that it can no longer control the Idle Air Control valve. Remember this while trying to diagnose a “hard” code for the Idle Air Control Valve or a dead miss in number one cylinder due to no injection at idle. A problem in the Idle Air Control valve circuit can be responsible. (Component testing shows that it is usually not the valve itself.) Another unusual computer response is if the computer is deprived of its “back up power supply.” If deprived of this power, some computers will generate a false code for the Idle Air Control valve and kill the injector for cylinder #1. The pin location of this power supply can be found in the Control Unit Module I/O Signal pages of the appropriate service manual. 1 End Wrench The insider info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 [...]96 Legacy 2.2 auto missing on # 1 & 2. No spark whatsoever[...] How did you determine that there is no spark to those cylinders? If you're absolutely certain that the misfire is due to lack of spark, then beside the things you already replaced (and the ECU which Nipper mentioned) there's also the igniter and wiring/connections to consider. See http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/DirectIgnition.pdf There are errors in the "DirectIgnition.pdf" info. In the "Ignition Coil Testing" section, the terminal numbers listed are reversed between the primary and secondary; however, the diagram is labeled correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Well, not sure if this helps but since many common things seem to be covered already (article from endwrench): Legacy and Impreza Engines with No Injection Pulse #1 Cylinder Built into the fuel injection control unit is logic that will shut off the #1 injector if the computer believes that it can no longer control the Idle Air Control valve. Remember this while trying to diagnose a “hard” code for the Idle Air Control Valve or a dead miss in number one cylinder due to no injection at idle. A problem in the Idle Air Control valve circuit can be responsible. (Component testing shows that it is usually not the valve itself.) Another unusual computer response is if the computer is deprived of its “back up power supply.” If deprived of this power, some computers will generate a false code for the Idle Air Control valve and kill the injector for cylinder #1. The pin location of this power supply can be found in the Control Unit Module I/O Signal pages of the appropriate service manual. 1 End Wrench The insider info. He said no spark, not no fuel. Plus the injectors are not tied in pairs on EJs. But the coils are. 1+2 spark toghether, so if they are both NOT sparking, it i reasonable to assume the trouble is with the coil(ruled out by replacement) or it's signal to fire.(my guess) He needs to test both of the signal wires to the coil for continuity end to end form the coil top the ECU good article though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 He said no spark, not no fuel. Oh spark! OH SPARK! ok, I think I saw an article on endwrench about some certain ground wires to check that might back out or get loose resulting in weak or lost spark.....now where was that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 I can't find the article off hand, but I'm pretty sure it said to check F27 7&8 in this diagram for looseness/bad connection/ground: OB99W mentioned the ignitor, have you checked that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aberti Posted March 27, 2008 Author Share Posted March 27, 2008 Thanks for all the info, I have to just find some time to poke around with the old fluke...I'll let you know what I find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aberti Posted April 1, 2008 Author Share Posted April 1, 2008 OK, thanks to all here! I traced out power to the ignitor and wasn't sure of the output, pulses I figured, which are hard to read on a DVM, (I can't find my test light). So, off to the local Subie boneyard, and came home with two ignitors and a few connectors to make a test harness with. The ignitor did the trick. Any thoughts on if I did damage to the cat with all the raw fuel blowing in there? I did drive it a few miles and got the flashing CEL, which is bad.... Anyway, thanks again to all! BTW: John Hughes Auto Salvage is a great source of parts in the Hudson Valley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 OK, thanks to all here! I traced out power to the ignitor and wasn't sure of the output, pulses I figured, which are hard to read on a DVM, (I can't find my test light). So, off to the local Subie boneyard, and came home with two ignitors and a few connectors to make a test harness with. The ignitor did the trick. Any thoughts on if I did damage to the cat with all the raw fuel blowing in there? I did drive it a few miles and got the flashing CEL, which is bad.... Anyway, thanks again to all! BTW: John Hughes Auto Salvage is a great source of parts in the Hudson Valley. If the car started, and there was no loud BOOM followed by some excitement, the cat is fine. A word of advice, always keep an analog volt meter around. They are cheap, and digital is not good for everything. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 OK, thanks to all here! [...]The ignitor did the trick. You're welcome. Congrats! A word of advice, always keep an analog volt meter around. They are cheap, and digital is not good for everything.Good point, although if you can get your hands on one, an o'scope is an even better tool for chasing pulses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron98 Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Hi, i have a 98 impreza i just puchased. It doesn't have spark on #1 cylinder. I tried replacing the coil with the same result no spark. The coil was used but i was told it was good. Any ideas? Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 www.endwrench.com Engine archives i remeber if something goes wrong with something else (egr maybe) there wil be no spark at #1 plug. Double check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Another thing to check is the cog of the reluctor for the crankshaft sensor. Sometimes they get broken off and cause that kind of problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 www.endwrench.com Engine archives i remeber if something goes wrong with something else (egr maybe) there wil be no spark at #1 plug. Double check. It is the IAC......and it is Fuel injector that is cut out.....not spark. The ECU would not be capable of cutting spark to #1 and not to #2 as well since they are fired in pairs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 It is the IAC......and it is Fuel injector that is cut out.....not spark. True, that's what is done. The injector is cut to disable the cylinder, rather than killing spark, because the other way around un-ignited fuel would just get pumped out at every cylinder #1 exhaust cycle. See: http://endwrench.com/current/spring04pdfs/InsiderInfo.pdf. The ECU would not be capable of cutting spark to #1 and not to #2 as well since they are fired in pairs It's true that the wasted-spark pair arrangement means firing cylinder #2 would also provide spark to #1. However, at the time that #2 is being lit, #1 is at the top of its exhaust stroke, and of course if the injector has been cut there's nothing to ignite. But that doesn't mean that the ECU couldn't cut ignition at the time #1 is near TDC of its power stroke (since doing so wouldn't affect #2 then, which would be at the top of its exhaust stroke) -- it's just more practical to cut fuel. Getting back to ron98's problem, the first thing to verify is that #2 is getting a good spark. If so, then the ignitor and coil are probably okay, and as Cougar suggested, a damaged sprocket reluctor is a possible cause of the problem. Also, sometimes a weak enough signal from a position sensor can primarily affect firing of one particular cylinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 It is the IAC......and it is Fuel injector that is cut out.....not spark. The ECU would not be capable of cutting spark to #1 and not to #2 as well since they are fired in pairs Ah ok. Its summer, its august, my birthday is this week, so my brain is taking a vacation .... ooooooo shiney thing :-p:drunk: nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 You can test the crank position sensor with an analog multimeter. It should be the same strength on all peeks. We need to do the usual testing, move the aprk plug wires, check the plug etc. Is there continuity between the two coil towers? nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron98 Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Hi. I was wrong. Both 1&2 do not have spark. I have been told igniter is in ciol . Is this correct or what and where is it? The injectors have juice. The car starts and runs, just on two cylinders 3&4. Could it be the computer? Thanks ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 (edited) Try swapping the known good coil with the other one and see if that helps. I know you changed out the coil already but I assume it wasn't proven to be ok before you put it in. If that doesn't help I suggest you check the crank sensor signal with a scope and verify it is ok. Edited August 27, 2009 by Cougar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 I have been told igniter is in ciol . Is this correct or what and where is it? [...] The igniter wasn't integrated with the coil until more recently. I believe it's mounted fairly high up on the firewall. It looks like the picture in this link: http://www2.remartautoparts.com/Items/LX-682-STP02. If you need an igniter, get the number from yours and pick up one or two from a junkyard if possible ('95-'98 models should be correct, but match the number), rather than pay the high price of a new one. Could it be the computer? Yes, the ECU can fail in that manner, but it's not common. The igniter or wiring/connections to it are more common problems. If you have access to a volt/ohmmeter and know how to use it, I can post some EndWrench links to help with diagnosis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 ECU's never seem to go bad.. Infact I don't even bother pulling them before scrapping the cars. I do sell a few ignitors though. A couple per year it seems. I've never had a bad one on a car myself. Coil packs are the #1 suspect as already mentioned if the wires are decent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron98 Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Thankyou. It was the ignitor. It runs on all cylinders but seem to have a rattle in the lower end. I have not change oil since i purchased it. I was trying to get it running right first. Do subaru motors have lower end noises. Thanks ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Thankyou. It was the ignitor. It runs on all cylinders Congrats. but seem to have a rattle in the lower end. I have not change oil since i purchased it. I was trying to get it running right first. Do subaru motors have lower end noises. Subarus don't have particularly noisy ''lower'' ends (do we still call them ''lower'' or ''bottom'' on a boxer ?). However, if the engine was run with two cylinders not firing for any significant length of time, the oil might be fuel diluted. Change the oil and filter as soon as possible, and hope that results in less noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now