Please don't let it be a head gasket.

[stevensocial]

Howdy,

 

I have a 1999 Subaru Outback wagon, with about 115,000 miles on it. She's a great runner, with little complaints over the life of the car. Last summer I had the Timing Belt and Water Pump replaced just as general maintenance, to avoid larger problems. (I once had a blown timing belt on the side of the highway in a snowstorm on my older Loyale wagon, once is enough). Driving it to the ski resort today I noticed my temp gauge was slightly above halfway. It normally sits at halfway, even with the steep mountain driving. I only had about two steep miles to go to the parking lot, where I would have cell phone service again. So turned on the heater full-blast and crawled slowly to the parking lot. The temp gauge continued to slowly rise, until I was finally able to pull over at the parking lot, where my car promptly pissed out a good half cup of bright green coolant. I let it cool down, got underneath to find the large black rubber radiator hose on the driver's side was collapsed like a deflated balloon. It looked like there was a vacuum somewhere and the air was being sucked out of the hose. The coolant reservoir was very full at this point and was not draining into the radiator. I let the car cool, and slowly poured water straight into the radiator. At this point the temp gauge was stone cold. I called a mechanic back in town, who told be to drive it very carefully to his shop. I drove (mostly coasted in neutral) back down the road to town, only giving it gas to keep up speed. I had the heater full blast again. With all this the temp gauge stayed at halfway, and the heater never heated up. Got it to the mechanic, who specializes in Subarus (and still I'm wanting to double-check, I know I'm just really optimistic). The mechanic got the car on the lift, found the radiator hose un-deflated, back to it's normal shape, and no coolant in the back-up coolant reservoir. The main reservoir was still full. He informed me that it was most likely a blown head gasket, which would cost roughly $1800 for starters. He told me that sure, it was drivable but would likely continue to overheat the whole way home, and eventually something far worse (and more costly) could occur. Luckily I had my trusty AAA Plus membership and was able to have it towed the 80 miles back home to my driveway, where it now sits, brokenhearted.

 

I really love my car, and this is the first time it's broken down on me. It has never over-heated before, and I'm only it's second owner, after my father bought it new and put 50,000 miles on it.

 

All you mechanical minded folks out there, is the blown head gasket diagnosis correct? How serious is it? Is there anything else it could be? Remember, timing belt and water pump were replaced a year ago. Is my car done for? Or if I replace the head gasket can I expect to get more life out of the car? I know that head gaskets were the problem for car of this year.

 

I noticed a small patch of oil in my driveway, could it be an oil leak? Poor oil pressure? My wife said that she noticed it smelling hot for the last couple of weeks.

 

And for the folks in the Colorado region, I live in SE Denver, by DU, are there any good independent honest (less expensive) shops I can take my car to for repairs?

 

Thanks for your help, and for stopping by to read my post. I love this website, and recommend to all friends with Subarus. I have to go now, I have to catch the bus.

 

Steven

[EVOthis]

yes it does indeed sound like a head gasket issue....however many people have told me in the past.."when it comes to cooling system problems start with the least expensive and work your way up"........dont know how much merit there is to that....(sounds like a shoddy mechanic if you ask me).......nonetheless.......i would check/replace the thermostat....if you havent already....... By the way this is a 2.5 were talking about here?

[idosubaru]

sounds like head gaskets. but of course you don't want to confuse a $12 fix (thermostat) with a $1,000 fix.

 

unfortunately being a 1999 you are probably hosed. 2000 being the cross over year there's a slight chance you could have a "transition" engine....but probably not - to check: if yours has DOHC (dual overhead cams) then you're basically hosed, your car is not drivable. if you have SOHC (single overhead cams) then you can refill it and keep driving it as long as you keep the coolant topped off. the SOHC have a slight external leakage that doesn't cause any problems until the coolant level gets low.

 

have the headgaskets replaced with subaru gaskets and you got a great vehicle for another 100,000 miles. it's really your best option verses trying to dump it and buy another. have the valves adjusted while it's apart.

 

use subaru head gaskets and make sure they replace both sides. you should be able to find someone to do it for $1,000 if you call around and don't need clutch work, water pump and that kind of stuff (which it sounds like you don't). there's tons of Denver folks here hopefully one will point you in the right direction.

[Gene J]

THE test for the Phase 1 engines is the test for exhaust gases in the coolant.

 

A hose collapse could have caused your over heating. It the hose was collapsed it did not have too much pressure in the system. It might not be the gasket.

 

When my HG went it was an intermittent problem. It would be fine for months then get hot just putting around town. Then it would be bad only on the highway.

 

One symptom of the HG is the the heater only blows cold air.

 

Have your car checked by a pro. You just might be lucky.

[screwbaru2]

Your guy is probably right. Even if he isn't now someday it will happen.

although $1800. sounds a little high, but if you trust the guy that's worth alot. I'd change the HGs (both) along with the oil pump,themostat, and hoses, heater hoses also. if the $1800. includes all this then its not bad. Good luck. It's the only thing that really sucks about these cars. I know I have one. By the way if you drive it again try putting the a/c on along with the heat that way the a/c fan will kick on and stay on for a little extra cooling.

[hohieu]

Internal head gasket leaks are not uncommon for your car, but what's unusual is that your car is leaking coolant externally.

 

Check your receipt to see what else was replaced during the timing belt service. An OEM thermostat is highly recommended as others on this board have reported problems with aftermarket ones.

 

A collapsed radiator hose can also be caused by stuck or clogged radiator cap, where an OEM one is again highly recommended, that doesn't allow the system to draw in coolant from the reservoir as the engine cools.

 

Then check all the other likely sources for a coolant leak:

radiator hoses

bypass hose

heater hoses

 

Remember, timing belt and water pump were replaced a year ago. Is my car done for? Or if I replace the head gasket can I expect to get more life out of the car? I know that head gaskets were the problem for car of this year. Steven

 

The revised head gaskets are holding up better according to many on this board who have experience with the same 2.5L DOHC engine, who will also sugggest that you go with Subaru OEM gaskets. It sounds like you averted cooking the engine and risking a cracked block so this repair should do the trick.

 

Does your car have an auto or manual tranny? If the latter, now might be a good time to do the clutch and rear separator plate because they'll most likely pull the engine to do the head gaskets.

 

 

I noticed a small patch of oil in my driveway, could it be an oil leak? Poor oil pressure? My wife said that she noticed it smelling hot for the last couple of weeks

Steven

 

Most likely not the culprit here. You have a leaky gasket or seal that's causing the oil lost or maybe a split CV boot, though the mechanic would most likely have spotted the latter. That "hot" smell could be oil or grease leaking onto and buring away on your exhaust pipes.

 

Other things you should have them replace that should not add any more labor costs to the headgasket job (Some of these items may have been already been replaced while they were in there for the timing belt):

 

head gaskets (2)

intake manifold gasket set

exhaust manifold gasket set

crank seal

cam seals (4)

valve cover gaskets (2)

spark plug well gaskets (4)

exhaust spring bolt set & gasket

[hohieu]

sorry for any redundance in my previous post...I was typing away as others responded with their very good advice...

[crazyhorse001]

You may go a week, you may go a month, but if it IS the head gasket it WILL let go completely. The later EJ25's didn't blow the gasket at the cylinder seal. They would just seep around the outside.

 

I'd try to replace the radiator cap, and T-stat first. Then keep an eye on the coolant recovery tank (not the radiator) you'll see tiny bubbles in it, and get an oily residue in there.

 

Since your recovery tank is emptying, it's drawing coolant back into the system, and that's a good sign. Hearing that the lower hose was collapsed, tells me that the cap may not be working properly.

 

I'll tell you to start with the easy, inexpensive things first. It just makes dollar sense.

[FSRBIKER]

Aren't there any members that live by you who can do the repair? If not get another opinion, start with the small stuff if you want to but it really seems like the HG. If it is the longer you wait the more damage like warping the heads that can be done. I have to say I never once regretted putting another engine in my 97 OBW, it was money well spent and I really like having no car payment.

 

FYI I bought a replacement engine out of Canada for around $950 to my door, I swapped my intake manifold over but did replace the HG's, timing belt, tensioners, etc so I new I was starting fresh. Again money well spent IMO.

[zooknoone]

I have a 1999 Subaru Forrester L with 126,000 miles - same problem - I have to replace my head gaskets too. From what I understand the 2.5 L engine had a bad design.

[FSRBIKER]

A bad head gasket design for sure. I got 170,000 before my HG went there are some over 200,000 without issues so it's not really the 2.5 it's the gaskets.

 

I have a 1999 Subaru Forrester L with 126,000 miles - same problem - I have to replace my head gaskets too. From what I understand the 2.5 L engine had a bad design.

[hohieu]

1999 Forester has the 2.5 SOHC engine, which tend to leak externally.

[Gloyale]

A bad head gasket design for sure. I got 170,000 before my HG went there are some over 200,000 without issues so it's not really the 2.5 it's the gaskets.

 

 

I've seen the supposedly *bullet proof* early 2.2s have Headgasket failure exactly like this. It's not really all the 2.5s fault. Lots of types of cars have Headgasket failures between 150k-250k miles. They are just machines. Just be glad they are not GM or Chrysler products or we'd be talking about exploded pistons and worn out rings.

[four-fleet-feet]

Just be glad they are not GM or Chrysler products or we'd be talking about exploded pistons and worn out rings.

Hey - be nice to SOME GMs, Okay? My last one went 348 plus before she was killed by an assassin in a semi.

 

(I think my S-10 was a Subaru at heart, though... had a real coolant system issue and had a distressing tendency to climb mountains like a speed demon - distressing to the slowpokes I passed, anyway)

[Setright]

Start by replacing the rad cap .