one eye Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 I just put new head gaskets and all that fun stuff on the new lifted wagon from Scott in Bellingham. After I got it done I had a little mishap with getting the flywheel bolt tight, So that came off going down the road, and the the timing belts came off. Before this happened though I had one lifter making a bunch of noise, so Chris and I seafoamed it and tried all that stuff. It still was making noise, Then I finished it off. So yesterday I took off the cam housing and replaced the lifters, once I got the cam housing off I realized that the cam was seized, It would not spin, So I had about 4 of them sitting on the floor so I just replaced it and put it all back together. Once I got it started again I could here a knocking in the bottom end of the motor do you think this could be related to having the cam seize? Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 what engine? mileage? how was the oil level and filter? new, old? sounds like the engine was starved of oil. what kind of sealant did you use on the cam carriers (depending which motor, i don't know what car you're talking about). if you used any RTV and it got stuck in the oil supply that doesn't do good things. picture attached of RTV blob caught in EA82 oil supply to the cam bearing surfaces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one eye Posted April 2, 2008 Author Share Posted April 2, 2008 Sorry, EA82, oil was up, filter was old. 89,000miles,one of those overseas motors, it had a blown head gasket but I fixed that. Only rvt looked like it was on the cam housing and there was not much there. Last night I change the oil and filter. Just went to the store and she is still knocking. not bad but you can tell it's there. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one eye Posted April 2, 2008 Author Share Posted April 2, 2008 what engine? mileage?how was the oil level and filter? new, old? sounds like the engine was starved of oil. what kind of sealant did you use on the cam carriers (depending which motor, i don't know what car you're talking about). if you used any RTV and it got stuck in the oil supply that doesn't do good things. picture attached of RTV blob caught in EA82 oil supply to the cam bearing surfaces. All the Rvt that was on the new cam housing, was removed by me. I didn't put anything back in its place. I just got it really clean and put it back on. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 are you sure it's not TOD? the HLA's will make some serious racket in subaru's and take awhile to quiet down after doing something like a head gasket job. they can be scary loud the first few miles while the HLA's pump up and get back to operating condition. if those cam housings aren't sealed they'll probably start leaking...if the motor is good. do you have to go back in and retorque the head gaskets - EA82's call for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one eye Posted April 2, 2008 Author Share Posted April 2, 2008 are you sure it's not TOD? the HLA's will make some serious racket in subaru's and take awhile to quiet down after doing something like a head gasket job. they can be scary loud the first few miles while the HLA's pump up and get back to operating condition. if those cam housings aren't sealed they'll probably start leaking...if the motor is good. do you have to go back in and retorque the head gaskets - EA82's call for that. It sounds like the knock is coming from the bottom end, kinda like it is right back behind the carb. right in the middle of the motor. not from the head at all. It almost sounds like there is a 10mm nut in the bellhousing area but I know there is not one there. I don't think you need to go back and retorque the heads but I might be wrong. I never did it on my touring wagons motor This may be a stupid question but what is the HLA? Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 Oil pressure? Did you prime the system before starting it after the HG replacement (crank without plugs till pressure comes up)? If the lifters are complaining, then you have oil supply issues. Did you replace the o-ring's for the oil passages from the head to the cam tower? Did you use the metal-reinforced o-ring from the dealer? GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 This may be a stupid question but what is the HLA? Jeff Hydraulic Lash Adjuster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audio_file Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 that sucks jeff . . . you want to tear it apart again or just replace it? (i'm down for either, might be cool to "split a block") i know where there's a good ea82t just waiting to be removed from one car and put into another . . . GD . . . in rebuilding two of these ea82's (one "T" and helping jeff with a non "T") i don't remember seeing any metal crush washers between the head and the cam housings . . . there were rubber ones i think . . . in one of the corners (?) whats the story there? chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one eye Posted April 2, 2008 Author Share Posted April 2, 2008 Oil pressure? Did you prime the system before starting it after the HG replacement (crank without plugs till pressure comes up)? If the lifters are complaining, then you have oil supply issues. Did you replace the o-ring's for the oil passages from the head to the cam tower? Did you use the metal-reinforced o-ring from the dealer? GD The lifters are all good they are not knocking anymore I replaced those. no noise is coming from the lifters or heads. No like chris was saying there where only those little rubber ones in the corner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 GD . . . in rebuilding two of these ea82's (one "T" and helping jeff with a non "T") i don't remember seeing any metal crush washers between the head and the cam housings . . . there were rubber ones i think . . . in one of the corners (?) whats the story there? They aren't crush washers. And sometime in '87 (as near as we can tell) Subaru switched from a regular o-ring, to a metal reinforced o-ring as the plain rubber one's deform and partially block oil flow. See for yourself: http://www.thepartsbin.com/catalog/?N=1719+11738+4294966979+8235 GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audio_file Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 They aren't crush washers. And sometime in '87 (as near as we can tell) Subaru switched from a regular o-ring, to a metal reinforced o-ring as the plain rubber one's deform and partially block oil flow. GD oh, thats awesome didn't see anything in the fsm about replacing these, whats the failure rate on the old rubber gaskets (i didn't replace them in my engine either, and i really don't feel like taking it back down to the heads if my odds of non-failure are okay) cf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subaru_dude Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 oh, thats awesome didn't see anything in the fsm about replacing these, whats the failure rate on the old rubber gaskets (i didn't replace them in my engine either, and i really don't feel like taking it back down to the heads if my odds of non-failure are okay) cf I would say if your lifters aren't making insane amounts of noise then you're okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one eye Posted April 2, 2008 Author Share Posted April 2, 2008 They aren't crush washers. And sometime in '87 (as near as we can tell) Subaru switched from a regular o-ring, to a metal reinforced o-ring as the plain rubber one's deform and partially block oil flow. See for yourself: http://www.thepartsbin.com/catalog/?N=1719+11738+4294966979+8235 GD that's cool:rolleyes: I used the one that where in there. That's gonna come back to haunt me, knowing my luck.:-\ If I do have a rod knocking should I just run it till things get real bad or till I get my other motor done? Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 oh, thats awesome didn't see anything in the fsm about replacing these, whats the failure rate on the old rubber gaskets (i didn't replace them in my engine either, and i really don't feel like taking it back down to the heads if my odds of non-failure are okay) cf You DID NOT replace them?!? What kind of job is that? :-\ You can't help but remove them in a thorough cleaning.... If that's the kind of work you did, then these are probably the least of your worries. I'm sure other shoddy/incomplete work will get you before these do. But you never know. The cam tower's should always be completely cleaned including the slot for RTV, and the o-ring replaced - they are usually hard and if they aren't reinforced they aren't even round anymore. Usually not sealing much. It's the little stuff that will get you - attention to detail is critical for work like this. It's THE reason people complain about lifter tick - and probably why I've never had a problem with it. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 If I do have a rod knocking should I just run it till things get real bad or till I get my other motor done?Jeff Rod knocks on Subaru's are barely audible. Can't generally hear them at idle at all. They show under load as a metallic clicking in time with engine RPM. You'll know when they get really bad because the rod will come out to say "Hi". If it's already loud enough to bother you - it's probably not a rod knock at all. It's probably a main bearing knock. Those can last for years. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one eye Posted April 2, 2008 Author Share Posted April 2, 2008 Rod knocks on Subaru's are barely audible. Can't generally hear them at idle at all. They show under load as a metallic clicking in time with engine RPM. You'll know when they get really bad because the rod will come out to say "Hi". If it's already loud enough to bother you - it's probably not a rod knock at all. It's probably a main bearing knock. Those can last for years. GD Cool I take pics once it comes out right under the intake. I have done it 3 times on a few of my other cars before, So it wont be anything new to me. This is why I have a cell phone and a tow strap everywhere I go:) the EA82 timing belts and motors in general kinda scare me they tend to like to break.......... alot:confused: , Don't get me wrong some are good, but some are bad. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 the EA82 timing belts and motors in general kinda scare me they tend to like to break.......... alot:confused: , Don't get me wrong some are good, but some are bad. No EA82 I've ever owned has suffered a major mechanical failure. I've had no less than 6 timing belts break at various inoportune times though never one that I've personally replaced. My last one had 230k on it when I gave it away. No ticking, excelent power, and no failures. It's all about how you treat them I think. Within a short time of me aquireing them, I always do specific things in relation to the metrics I have on the engine in question. I've lost exactly one EA81 to rod failure. I learned my lesson quick. Oil pressure is ALWAYS monitored, and checked against a known reliable (high quality) mechanical guage. I generally replace oil pumps that won't give me at least 20 psi hot-idle. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audio_file Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 You DID NOT replace them?!? What kind of job is that? :-\ You can't help but remove them in a thorough cleaning.... If that's the kind of work you did, then these are probably the least of your worries. I'm sure other shoddy/incomplete work will get you before these do. But you never know. The cam tower's should always be completely cleaned including the slot for RTV, and the o-ring replaced - they are usually hard and if they aren't reinforced they aren't even round anymore. Usually not sealing much. GD those of us who don't do this on a daily basis just follow the directions, which don't mention anything about those "wierd looking rubber things" that were well recessed into their hole . . . (b.t.w. you got a pic, just so we can be sure we're talking about the same thing . . .) it's not something that would've been taken care of when the heads were machined is it? please, just answers, not opinions on my personal level of skill, k? thx chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3eyedwagon Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 those of us who don't do this on a daily basis just follow the directions, which don't mention anything about those "wierd looking rubber things" that were well recessed into their hole . . .please, just answers, not opinions on my personal level of skill, k? thx chris amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 those of us who don't do this on a daily basis just follow the directions, which don't mention anything about those "wierd looking rubber things" that were well recessed into their hole . . . (b.t.w. you got a pic, just so we can be sure we're talking about the same thing . . .)it's not something that would've been taken care of when the heads were machined is it? please, just answers, not opinions on my personal level of skill, k? thx chris They aren't "well recessed", and they have nothing to do with the heads - they are between the head and the cam tower. So nothing that was machined on the heads could affect them. I don't have an EA82 apart to take pictures of at the moment. I'm sure someone around here does, or already has a picture though. The *slight* recess for them is in the bottom corner of the cam tower. If there isn't an o-ring you're oil pressure is relying on the forbearance of reptiles. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott in Bellingham Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 Sorry, EA82, oil was up, filter was old. 89,000miles,one of those overseas motors, it had a blown head gasket but I fixed that. Only rvt looked like it was on the cam housing and there was not much there. Last night I change the oil and filter. Just went to the store and she is still knocking. not bad but you can tell it's there. Jeff Just EJ it :lol: :lol: :lol: right Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one eye Posted April 3, 2008 Author Share Posted April 3, 2008 Just EJ it :lol: :lol: :lol: right Chris That is going to get his goat. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott in Bellingham Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 That is going to get his goat. Jeff that moter you pulled is a good one just needed H gaskets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audio_file Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 That is going to get his goat.Jeff hyup, just EJ the poo out of it. (sorry, i've got too much on my mind today for EA/EJ or the "forbearance of reptiles" stir me up) chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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