Subaru right for me?

[SawBoss85]

Hello -

 

Right now I own a 1998 Toyota Tacoma with the V6 and 4x4. It's an extended cab vehicle and I've added 31inch All Terrains. I live in the mid-atlantic and the majority of my off roading takes place on forest roads and Jeep trails located within a national forest. These trails (most) are suitable for stock or slightly modified vehicles.

 

I'm growing tired of wheeling my daily driver, even though it has held up well over the years thankfully. I am looking around for another vehicle that I could use for light off roading (continuation of trips to the national forest), hunt trips, and camping.

 

This brings me to my idea of buying a fairly new (2000 or newer) Subaru wagon, modifying it, and using it off road. How reliable are Subarus that have over 100,000 miles on them? Are there any engines to stay away from? What is the ground clearence on a stock Subaru wagon?

 

If I were to modify one, I would add on the four inch lift that I've read about in these forums. What size tires will such a lift allow me to run without rubbing? Are there skid plates available? The place that I off road at has a lot of rocks in the trail and therefore I am nervous about the ground clearence and underbody of the Subaru. Are D-Shackles mountable on the frame of the Subaru for recovery?

 

Thank you

[Rooinater]

If I were to modify one, I would add on the four inch lift that I've read about in these forums. What size tires will such a lift allow me to run without rubbing? Are there skid plates available? The place that I off road at has a lot of rocks in the trail and therefore I am nervous about the ground clearence and underbody of the Subaru. Are D-Shackles mountable on the frame of the Subaru for recovery?

 

Thank you

 

4" lift on a new subaru?? uh... not that i've seen... eric has posession of the only ej lift kit i know of... subaru's are a cottage industry, you build it or find someone to do it. your best off with another yota imo... newer subaru's are definately capable of mildly rough terrain, but also realize you won't have a low range anymore. the lift kits that i know of are for the older ea82 and ea81's...

[TheSubaruJunkie]

The 4" lifts are available for model years 1980 to 1989 GL, DL, Loyale line.

 

The Outbacks and Legacy's and Impreza's can gain a good 2" with strut/spring combo's.

 

-Brian

[MilesFox]

if you are going to modify a newer subaru, and for the sake of reliability, the best ones would be 95-97 era if you find one that is not very worn.

 

the newer ones from there were more prone to head gasket problems, but not too much different driveline wise.

 

aside from the mention about custom lift kits, you can swap on forester springs and struts to a regular legacy or impreza to gain some ground clearance.

 

go browse http://www.dirtyimpreza.com for ideas of what can be done

[newsoobdude]

This is a pic of Zap's old Impreza Outback Sport lifted via Legacy Outback struts and springs. You can always get SJR's EA to EJ tranny adapter and use it to do an EJ to EA D/r out of an 86 to 88, but you will also have to swap the rear diff and figure out a tranny crossmember for the D/r if you want a low range.

[idosubaru]

could you keep the toyota for wheeling and have a subaru for daily driving duties? that would make more sense. seems strange to want the worst gas mileage and most capable off road vehicle for daily driving and use the other for off road, but i'm sure you have your reasons.

 

most likely any late model subaru you want will have the EJ25 which has head gasket issues. the 2000+ are nice since they only leak externally and not nearly as likely to leave you stranded as the 1999 and earlier ones. they also have more piston slap and bearing failure. EJ22's are better but you likely won't want any of the vehicles that came in.

[Numbchux]

wow, you guys make those new motors sounds like garbage

 

keep an eye on the temp gauge, and any EJ-series motor will have no problem breaking 250-300k miles. yea, if you let them overheat, they're more prone to head gasket failure than others. And the SOHC versions are worlds better....I know numerous guys pushing 10+psi of boost into stock blocks.

 

 

An outback is surprisingly capable. and you can stuff 29" tires on them stock. a little bit of fender trimming and 29s and you'll have better ground clearance than almost any SUV out there.

 

No, they weren't available with low range. but that just means don't get a 5-speed. The auto tranny will allow plenty of control for some light wheeling (only time I'd suggest low range AND an auto, is serious rock crawling.....in which case no subaru low range is sufficient anyway).

 

I'm not a fan of the '00+ Legacy multi-link rear suspension for wheeling. looking at it on my mom's '01, I just don't think it leaves a whole lot of travel.

 

 

 

 

The big advantage to wheeling subarus is they're weight (or lack thereof). But this advantage has been sucked away in the last 5-10 years in the form of luxury options, crumple zones and chassis stiffening. an '00+ legacy will weight almost as much as your Toyota except without that solid axle thing in the back. Although, the new Outback's are available with that 3.0l 6-cyl :slobber:

 

 

SO. Subarus can be awesome trail/hunting/camping rigs. But over time, they've become less and less likely candidates. As mentioned, the late '80s ones are the ones that have low range, and 4" lift kits available.

 

In my opinion, your best bet is a '93-'01 Impreza with legacy outback or forester suspension (like the one pictured in this thread).

[idosubaru]

sorry. the EJ25's aren't garbage. i'm a fan of subaru's because of their reliability so the EJ25 is not a good fit for me. i'd rather tell someone and have them blow me off than not tell them and they're stuck with a $1,500 repair that wouldn't be needed with a different vehicle.

 

good call that later is lesser. the late 80's stuff has the locking center diff too and rear clutch type LSD verses the VLSD's - much nicer for off road...or at least mud and snow. i don't know jack about trail riding or rock climbing.

[Numbchux]

i'm a fan of subaru's because of their reliability so the EJ25 is not a good fit for me.

 

still extremely misleading.....Yea, you have to be a bit more careful on the maintenance. and extremely careful when buying a used one. But it's still far from unreliable.

[idosubaru]

still extremely misleading..... still far from unreliable.

i never called the EJ25 unreliable. misleading to some, not to others. let him decide, if he wants to know the EJ25 weakness he can ask or search.

[Andy FitzGibbon]

still extremely misleading.....Yea, you have to be a bit more careful on the maintenance. and extremely careful when buying a used one. But it's still far from unreliable.

 

Easy to say for a lot of us, who work on our own cars. For people who have no mechanical experience, an engine prone to head gasket failure (more prone than most other engines I know, anyway) would probably be considered an unreliable engine.

From what the OP says, a stock Outback or Legacy with Outback springs would probably be fine for the type of off-roading he does. I do a lot of rocky national forest road driving with my GL, and I barely ever have to use the low range.

Andy

[3eyedwagon]

How much do you want to work on the thing? If you aren't into tinkering; I'd stay away from lifting a Subaru. I have honestly never worked on any vehicle I've ever owned as much as I've worked on my wagon, and I've had it about 1/10th the time of the rest of my vehicles. If you enjoy wrenching, and working to improve your vehicles; then buy a wagon!!!

[idosubaru]

I have honestly never worked on any vehicle I've ever owned as much as I've worked on my wagon

is that comparing an 82 wagon to a 2000 Legacy? might want to explain what you mean by that, there are no 1980's vehicles that can compete with the reliability or maintenance time of a 2000+ vehicle.

[3eyedwagon]

is that comparing an 82 wagon to a 2000 Legacy? might want to explain what you mean by that, there are no 1980's vehicles that can compete with the reliability or maintenance time of a 2000+ vehicle.

 

I'm comparing my 1982 ea81 lifted Subaru station wagon to every other car I have ever owned in the history of my life.

 

That has to be well over 50 vehicles.

 

Everything from a 1929 Ford Tudor, powered by a 301 Chev.

 

To a 74 Dodge Dart, known as "Airborne".

 

To over 16 Chevrolet B Bodies. (Caprice, etc.)

 

To a 86 Nissan 200sx with a vg30de in it.

 

To a couple of Novas (both full 1/4 mile race cars)

 

All the way to a 98 S10, the newest vehicle I've ever owned.

 

I've had more cars than I can remember. Like I said; well over 50. Most of them older than my wagon. I think it is just the nature of the beast, but I have never worked on any vehicle I have ever had more than my lifted Wagon. I love it, but it is a labor intensive little punk.

[Numbchux]

I'll put it this way. an EJ25 is a muuuuch better option than an EA82. Making an EJ25 go for a bazillion miles isn't any harder than doing the same with an EA82.

 

 

 

and yes, if you're not prepared for lots of tinkering, a body-lifted subaru is not for you.

 

but a simple GF impreza wagon with outback or forester suspension would be perfect. regardless of the motor.

[screwbaru2]

Num, The ej25 motor isn't garbarge the 4 previous hg designs were garbage.

The motor is actually very tough. Having said that I will NEVER own a pre 2003 ej25 again unless I get it free. Because the 1st thing that needs to be done is hg replacement. I never would have payed $4000. for my 97 OB had I known about the HG issue. The 1st one went 120K HG. I didn't get a 1k out of it. The second went 110K. Both never overheated until the hg went.

[Andy FitzGibbon]

Num, The ej25 motor isn't garbarge the 4 previous hg designs were garbage.

 

Agreed- I never said they were bad engines. I like the ones I've driven. But, if the OP has no mechanical experience and doesn't work on his own stuff, he probably doesn't know how to look for signs of weather the HGs have been replaced or not. That might make a 2.5 a bad choice for him.

Chux, out of curiosity, any reason the EJ25 would be better than the EA82 (other than the obvious power issue)?

Andy

[Numbchux]

Chux, out of curiosity, any reason the EJ25 would be better than the EA82 (other than the obvious power issue)?

Andy

 

reliability. terribly timing belt design, inefficient water pump and cooling system, the crank angle sensor and ignition amplifier (right? the little thing under the coil that likes to leave you stranded in the middle of no-where).

 

 

I've said it before. I will never, ever, buy another EA82 (I've owned 5) with the intent of keeping the stock motor. And I just bought a '96 Outback for my girlfriend (That would be an EJ25d, and a '96 so it's got HLAs too, it's got 123k miles on it). And my mom has been driving an '01 Legacy L with an EJ253 for 3 years. I believe she's up to almost 100k miles (had 20k when we bought it).

[Andy FitzGibbon]

reliability. terribly timing belt design, inefficient water pump and cooling system, the crank angle sensor and ignition amplifier (right? the little thing under the coil that likes to leave you stranded in the middle of no-where).

 

 

I've said it before. I will never, ever, buy another EA82 (I've owned 5) with the intent of keeping the stock motor. And I just bought a '96 Outback for my girlfriend (That would be an EJ25d, and a '96 so it's got HLAs too, it's got 123k miles on it). And my mom has been driving an '01 Legacy L with an EJ253 for 3 years. I believe she's up to almost 100k miles (had 20k when we bought it).

 

Good to hear your perspective, never having owned a 2.5. Each engine has it's own set of problems, and I don't think either one would be a good choice for someone who isn't mechanically inclined, particularly if they don't know how to recognize the signs of a HG letting go.

Looks like we scared the OP off, but he's never answered why he wants to drive his Tacoma on the road and a Subaru off road.

Andy

[idosubaru]

EA82's were good motors (notice past tense), capable of high mileage. but finding one in good condition, original owner, that's had all the maintenance done on time is almost impossible. most have seen compromised cooling systems (meaning they've been overheated at least once prior due to leaks, hoses, t-stat, radiator, etc..), are 20 years old, and not far from a failure.

 

all things equal the EA82 is more reliable...but "all things equal" isn't possible 20 years later, so like Chux said an EJ25 will beat an EA82 hands down in today's world. and you get real power, decent mileage, nice trim levels, options, significant safety improvements...etc.

 

not counting the drive train it's almost pointless for me (or friends/family) to buy an EA82. but the OP isn't really considering anything remotely close to EA82 stuff.