So my Subaru sounds like a diesel!

[njdrsubaru]

yeah it does... the clattering is loud.. i think i never noticed because i bought the car in the winter and i've been riding with the windows up all the time... but today was a nice day out i rolled down the windows and noticed a clatter while idling or at a traffic light... Holy Cow!!! it sounds like a Diesel engine!!!! and i just changed the oil today too

 

oh btw its a 95 EJ22 with 170k... anyone having the same sound?? :-\

[four-fleet-feet]

Two questions: what weight oil did you put in, and what did the old oil look like? Any leaks?

 

Did you check all the other fluids when you did the change?

[njdrsubaru]

i actually noticed the sound a few days ago but didnt care about it because i thought it was a oil change time , i was running 10/30 oil and i was 600 miles overdue for a oil change... so today i decided to change the oil hoping that sound would go away and this time i went heavier on the oil 20/50.. i used 20/50 on all my subarus in the past from spring to late fall and never a problem... now could it be that i waited another 600 miles for a oil change? the oil wasnt low but it was sorta burnt... and i have no major leaks except the camshaft seal which is a ultra slow leak... all the other fluids check ok

[four-fleet-feet]

OK, sound was there before the oil change. You say you were 600 overdue. What's your interval? 3000, or more/less?

 

The 'burned' doesn't sound good. Has this happened before?

 

I usually go down to 5/30 for cold/snow; were you hard hit this winter? Did you have trouble getting your car to run while it was cold? Are you near a freeway so you were revving her up to 60+ in the first five miles of driving?

 

Any CEL codes? I have a few thoughts, but none of them are good...

[njdrsubaru]

OK, sound was there before the oil change. You say you were 600 overdue. What's your interval? 3000, or more/less?

 

The 'burned' doesn't sound good. Has this happened before?

 

I usually go down to 5/30 for cold/snow; were you hard hit this winter? Did you have trouble getting your car to run while it was cold? Are you near a freeway so you were revving her up to 60+ in the first five miles of driving?

 

Any CEL codes? I have a few thoughts, but none of them are good...

 

yup every 3K miles... no it has not happened before except when i got the car in december it needed a oil change badly... it was cold this winter but not terribly cold... never had a problem starting it up.... and Yes i usually dont warm up the car i just start and go, i am about 1 mile from the highway... No CEL

 

oh may i add this... she rides smooth too

[four-fleet-feet]

Did you get any maintenance log from the previous owner? How old's the coolant, and was a timing belt service (and the water pump, oil pump, all that) done in the last two years? The last time I saw/heard something like this was on a mothballed motorhome where the fluids hadn't been circulated enough to lube the engine over a year of severe cold/wet weather and the pistons were unhappy when it went back into service.

 

Have you checked your plugs yet? I hate to say this, but in my somewhat-GMified mind this sounds like a tired engine. Is there any chance the previous owner let it sit for a while before you bought it?

 

One thing you could try is to go up in octane for one tank. It's not going to fix the problem, but it might make it quieter.

[njdrsubaru]

Did you get any maintenance log from the previous owner? How old's the coolant, and was a timing belt service (and the water pump, oil pump, all that) done in the last two years? The last time I saw/heard something like this was on a mothballed motorhome where the fluids hadn't been circulated enough to lube the engine over a year of severe cold/wet weather and the pistons were unhappy when it went back into service.

 

Have you checked your plugs yet? I hate to say this, but in my somewhat-GMified mind this sounds like a tired engine. Is there any chance the previous owner let it sit for a while before you bought it?

 

One thing you could try is to go up in octane for one tank. It's not going to fix the problem, but it might make it quieter.

 

 

well the coolant was just changed, by me... timing belt is about to be done next month along with water pump and possibly the oil pump, by me... and the plugs were the first thing idid to the car back in december when i got her... I've heard this before on a subaru but it wasn't constant, i had a 93 lego SS that the clatter was there every once in while... but this constant clattering is odd for a 170K miles EJ22... even my 385K 90 EJ22 didn't have the clatter... Now the previous owner had a very good service record and took very good care of it, although the oil was awful when i bought it. and it was his daily driver before selling it to me...

 

Let me also add this, the clatter gets even louder after driving on the highway for awhile and when i come to a exit and stop the clatter is really loud for a few mnts .... have u ever seen the subaru diesel Youtube video sound? thats exactly how it sounds like after driving on the highway

 

 

did someone swap engines on me?!?! :grin:

[mdjdc]

I'm going to be the first with the bad news. you are seeing the early noises of a main bearing going. I have a friend that has an early 90's legacy with a spun bearing. Sounded just like a diesel, but still ran great. He even used it to pull a car off of a gravel mound. I pulled the engine apart and the crank and number one rod torn apart by the spun bearing. It was amazing that it still ran and a testament to the toughness of the subie engines.

[njdrsubaru]

[njdrsubaru]

but but but at 170K?!?!?

[e4620]

Is there any chance the engine overheated before you got it?

 

I drove my 2.5dohc from 89,000 miles till 119,400 with all the proper maintenence and no problems at all. Until the head gaskets went. Then a mishap from a dealer led to an overheat (they never plugged the fans in after the hg job), the next day it sounded like a diesel, a couple of days after it broke down on the highway with a spun bearing. I have the records from the previous owner, they all seemed in order.

 

Hopefully this isn't the case with your engine...but I second what mdjdc said :-\

[njdrsubaru]

Is there any chance the engine overheated before you got it?

 

I drove my 2.5dohc from 89,000 miles till 119,400 with all the proper maintenence and no problems at all. Until the head gaskets went. Then a mishap from a dealer led to an overheat (they never plugged the fans in after the hg job), the next day it sounded like a diesel, a couple of days after it broke down on the highway with a spun bearing. I have the records from the previous owner, they all seemed in order.

 

Hopefully this isn't the case with your engine...but I second what mdjdc said :-\

 

 

hmmm now that you mentioned, i had a blown radiator hose last week, she ran 3/4 of the way to the hot position for about 5 mnts but never reaching HOT... after 5 mnts bleeding the system and getting all the air out, she stabilized.

[OB99W]

but but but at 170K?!?!?

To quote you, "the oil was awful when i bought it". That's a lot more telling of the care the car got than all the maintenance records in the world. So how awful was it? Dirty isn't good, but just a bit of antifreeze and water in the oil can sometimes do more damage to bearings than "dirt".

 

You can verify rod knock, or help eliminate it as a possible cause of the noise, with a simple test. First, run the engine until it's warm enough for the noise to be prominent. Then electrically disconnect one fuel injector at a time. When a cylinder isn't making power, rod knock is usually much less prominent, so quieter (although rougher) running should point to a bad bearing.

 

By the way, don't pull plug wires or short out plugs to disable cylinders -- that causes raw gas to wash oil off cylinder walls, among other bad things. Disconnecting an injector serves the same purpose, without the problems.

[mdjdc]

my buds sub had less than 200k on it. It all boils down to good maintainence throughout the life of the car. I just rebuilt an engine for his car and we are looking at putting it in this week. Hopefully he can do a better job than the previous owner.

 

Good luck with yours.

[njdrsubaru]

To quote you, "the oil was awful when i bought it". That's a lot more telling of the care the car got than all the maintenance records in the world. So how awful was it? Dirty isn't good, but just a bit of antifreeze and water in the oil can sometimes do more damage to bearings than "dirt".

 

 

the oil was just used, burnt.. it had oil in it but old burnt oil.. she doesnt smoke or "eats" oil. maybe its just temporary since i went 600 miles over my due for oil change. Lets see what happens if i put some oil stabilizer in there...

[woundedbrat]

I have the same car. This winter after driving it a while at highway speeds I had the same experience. car was idling and I was outside, sounded pretty bad knocky well at the time I was at a j/y getting parts for a rear disk swap(ftw)for me brat. the owner of the junkyard heard the noise too he's all what weight oil are you running I said 10w30 he shakes his head and says these motors don't like the heavier oils 5w30 all you need. long story short treated with seafoam and changed the oil to 5w30 and no noise since. take it or leave it good luck with your car.

[keltik]

Now how the hell did we get this far into this thread without someone asking what the oil pressure is/was!!??

 

Its all very well to put it down to a spun bearing or whatver - but what caused that?

 

The guys motor got hot recently (due to low lubrication maybe). Symptoms have been getting worse not just appearing overnight and his oil has smelled burned. The noise gets louder after highway driving (hot oil = low pressure). Theres a lot of evidence here but nobody seems to be using it.

 

Lets not foget the totally avoidable carnage of a nakkered oil pump. If maybe id taken my time to check the oil pressure instead of assuming sticky lifters and dumping MMO in - this wouldnt have happened.

[OB99W]

Now how the hell did we get this far into this thread without someone asking what the oil pressure is/was!!??

I can't speak for anyone else, but my own initial response (#14) was to provide a way to either help confirm what mdjdc said or detetermine that wasn't the problem. Engine knocks can have a lot of causes, and sometimes even experienced techs misdiagnose them.

 

Knowing what the oil pressure is can be useful information, but more so if it's high enough (as an indication to look elsewhere). One problem with getting a low reading is that it usually doesn't point to a specific cause.

 

 

Its all very well to put it down to a spun bearing or whatver - but what caused that?

I, for one, have made no assumptions.

 

 

The guys motor got hot recently (due to low lubrication maybe).

There doesn't appear to be a "maybe". He said "i had a blown radiator hose last week", and from the way the rest is worded, it seems that caused the temperature rise.

 

 

Symptoms have been getting worse not just appearing overnight and his oil has smelled burned.

A "burnt/burned" smell may or may not suggest oil starvation. For example, it might just be an indication of excessive blowby, contaminating the oil with combustion byproducts.

 

 

The noise gets louder after highway driving (hot oil = low pressure). Theres a lot of evidence here but nobody seems to be using it.

There's "evidence", but from a distance not enough so far to lead to a conclusive diagnosis. Yes, oil will thin as engine temperature goes up; if the engine gets noisy then, it often means that there's excessive clearance, but it doesn't point to something specific.

 

 

Lets not foget the totally avoidable carnage of a nakkered oil pump. If maybe id taken my time to check the oil pressure instead of assuming sticky lifters and dumping MMO in - this wouldnt have happened.

Sure, a bad oil pump could certainly explain low pressure. However, other worn or damaged parts with too much space between them can do the same.

 

Once an engine gets near 200k miles, especially if the previous maintenance history isn't known, all bets are off. Make sure the proper grade of oil is used, and change it if there's any question of its condition. Perhaps have an oil analysis done if there's reason to suspect a failing bearing. A tech combining good diagnostic skills with diagnostic tools (perhaps such as an oil pressure gauge, and maybe a stethescope) should be able to pinpoint the problem.

[aircraft engineer]

"Spit happens"

 

My reaction initially was "rod bearing going". You will likely find some metal particles in the drain oil if you check it. That will be absolute confirmation "something" down there in the bottom end is giving it up.

 

<find another engine or fix that one - it's not long for this world. You just make later repairs worse by driving it more>

[nipper]

Blu threw a rod (odd how the picture of the white one looks exactly like Blu) at 191,000 miles. I bought him at 181,000 miles. The previous owner believed in once a year oil changes "because it was all highway miles".

 

Blu went from being silent to knock to throwing a rod in about 1200 miles.

 

 

nipper

[njdrsubaru]

when i changed the oil there was no metal fragments or particles in the oil. Today i decided to drain the recently changed oil and out new oil in... and to my surprise the oil was not burned but dirty/old looking already.. i'm beginning to think that i have lots of sludge in there... so i put new oil in along with a bottle of lucas oil stabilizer... and the noise and muuuuuch less now, now it only sounds like a faint EJ25 piston slap

[four-fleet-feet]

I do hate to be a pest, but what weight did you use this time? You know, 20/50's awfully thick anytime, let alone in the morning... I'd hate to be the motor trying to pump it while I was still cold and going dowwwwn the freeway one mile from home...

 

(Maybe you could try one run of 5/30)

 

(Sludge? Of course. Burned? I'll bet. Since the previous owner left 'the oil from hell' in it, take the rest of the 'stated' maintenance done by the previous owner with a very large grain of salt. Do it all again YOURSELF. I say this from current experience...)

[njdrsubaru]

ugh... i hear ya guys... lets see in the coming few weeks where this "piston slap noise" goes... i already called my guy at the JY hes got a 2.2 with 74k on it for 400.. although that 2.2 is been there for 2 yrs now

[aircraft engineer]

there is a brute force way to clean out the sumps - you add 1/2 quart of "butyl cellosolve" motor flush (beats me what the brand name would be - I have a OLD can of MOPAR - yeah, that old, for "just in case use") You start it and let it IDLE!! IDLE!!! JUST IDLE!!! DON'T DRIVE IT !! for about 15 minutes then DRAIN IT ALL, LET IT SIT OPEN FOR 20 MINUTES OR SO TO GET AS MUCH OUT AS POSSIBLE then change the oil and the filter - everything.

 

The degunker is about as powerful a detergent as there is. The sloshing will even clean gunk on the walls of the block

 

BUT IT WILL KILL LUBRICATION ENOUGH THAT DRIVING WILL KILL THE BEARINGS - THAT'S WHY IDLE ONLY!!

 

Some even advocate a second oil change right after the first one to get it all out. Your choice - if you let it sit enough to drain almost all of it out it won't matter. (~$14 of oil...)

[dhise]

The safe way to clean out a sludged up motor is Auto-RX. Very popular over at BITOG. No miracle overnight cures, just slow safe sludge removal without putting harsh solvents in your motor.