timstiles Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 Drove my 96 all over the place today like I normally do and it ran great as always. Hopped in it tonight to head out to dinner and it cranks but won't start. I added a few gallons of gas in case the gauge was wrong but it didn't help. Anyone got any ideas? I'm new to Subarus so almost any advice is helpful. I want to test the fuel pump in the morning. Does fuel flow when the key is in the on position or only when cranking ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 Is the Check Engine Light on? If so get the code and post or search this form. That's the best way to do it. The computer wants to help fix your problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVOthis Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 obviously check for fuel, spark and air(not likely but ive seen it happen).......if you want to see if your fuel pump is turning on you can usually hear it (or at least i can hear mine)as soon as you turn the key on for a couple of seconds...or you get an assistant to sit in the car and turn the key while you listen back by the filler neck...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 Fuel pump should run with key in start, or with key in on if engine is running. It does not run with key in on but engine off. An easy check is to move the key from acc to run, the pump will run for a second or two then. I can hear the click and the brief pump whir when this happens on my soobs. In addition to checking for codes, some things to check might be engine coolant temp sensor, timing belt snapped, cam/crank position sensors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timstiles Posted April 5, 2008 Author Share Posted April 5, 2008 update, I have no fuel pump sound, no fuel coming out of the fuel line supply side at the filter with key in run or when cranking . I'm off to jumper pins 1 and 4 at the fuel pump to see if it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 My info only shows a blu/yel wire tied to the relay for power, and a blk wire for ground going to the pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timstiles Posted April 6, 2008 Author Share Posted April 6, 2008 Tested the connector going to the fuel pump and it has +12v for a few seconds with key first on, and +12v when cranking. so the fuel pump wasn't working . I removed the fuel pump and connected it to a battery and it ran, reinstalled in the car and it works fine now. Last year the electric fuel pump for my RV generator stopped working. My father in law whacked it with a hammer and it started working. What is with these tempermental fuel pumps? Best deal in town for a new subaru fuel pump is $99 bucks. If you know where I can get one cheaper let me know! Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVOthis Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 glad it was something relatively easy......(def. beats a busted timing belt)......is it the original fuel pump? if so and you had this one intermittent problem.....me personally i would replace it....(i would hate for that thing to die again in the middle of rush hour or something)......i think that is a pretty decent price for a new FP....the places i get my parts from i couldnt find one for less than $120..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 Glad to hear that you got it fixed. I would have to wonder why the pump wasn't turning if it was getting voltage to it. You may want to replace it anyways if you are sure that there isn't any other place that could be a problem with the voltage getting to the pump. If the pump has never been replaced you got a good amount of service out of that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timstiles Posted April 6, 2008 Author Share Posted April 6, 2008 Ya it is a bit odd. I had my ear right on top of the pump while someone turned the key and cranked it and heard nothing. When I connected it directly to the battery the pump worked. I will probably replace it so I don't have to worry about it. partsamerica.com shows the correct part number as: Carter In Tank Fuel Pump: Part Number: P72193 Fits the following vehicles SUBARU 1993 - 1995 IMPREZA 1992 - 1996 SVX 1991 - 1998 LEGACY INFINITI 1991 - 1994 G20 ISUZU 1991 - 1995 RODEO 1992 - 1993 TROOPER NISSAN 1989 - 1998 240SX 1993 - 1994 MAXIMA 1990 AXXESS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aircraft engineer Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 Could be a bad contact at the pump connection. IF you tested the connection at the wired end of the contact, you don't know what resistance you may have had in the connection itself. The PUMP might be just fine, but you have a CONNECTION problem between the fuel pump power wire and the fuel pump power input lug. Since it worked after you pulled the connection and reconnected it, I would suspect that is the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timstiles Posted April 7, 2008 Author Share Posted April 7, 2008 The saga continues! It wouldn't start today so I bought a new fuel pump. Installing anything other than the subaru pump is a pain by the way. Got the new pump in, jumped in the drivers seat to fire it up and it has the same d!@@ problem. I found out why but don't know what could have caused it. The pump/sender housing side wiring connector is permanently affixed to the housing. On the bottom side 2 2 wire harnesses plug into it. One goes to the sender , the other to the pump. I noticed the insulation was missing a bit on the black wire going to the fuel pump, not on the pump side but up within the small 2 wire white connector that plugs into the larger white one that passes through the pump/sender housing. I popped that connector out and a good bit of insulation is indeed gone from the black wire. The fuel pump connector is black, melted, and burned looking, it looks the same where it plugs in also. I'll post some pics later when my camera is back from a birthday party. I'm a bit concerned to have found this on the internal tank connectors. Has anyone seen this ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timstiles Posted April 7, 2008 Author Share Posted April 7, 2008 here are the pics http://tbsventures.net/pics/fuel1.jpg http://tbsventures.net/pics/fuel2.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nug Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 That looks perfectly safe. My guess is a bad connection that caused excessive resistance and heat. I'd have the tendency to solder everything up directly so it couldn't possibly do it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 I agree with Nug. This is the kind of thing I was afraid would happen. You replace the pump and still have the problem. Good find though, at least you now know what the real problem is. You may have to replace the sender unit also along with the bad plug if you can't clean up the connector pin well enough. That damage is pretty bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timstiles Posted April 7, 2008 Author Share Posted April 7, 2008 I'm headed to pick-n-pull this week to try to get the pump/sender assembly. Assuming the pump I get at the junkyard is good I will then have 3 working fuel pumps. : ) I don't think the parts store will take the one I bought today back. Maybe I can use one of the extra ones to make a 12v siphon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nug Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 My stupid washing machine did the same thing. It fried one of the pins in the connector. Unfortunately, this just caused the motor to hum loudly and then trip its internal circuit breaker. It would do it over and over. To keep my house from burning down, I chopped off the entire connector and soldered each wire on individually. One of my major pet peeves is an ineffective connector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVX_commuter Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 I had a problem with my ASTRO van that sort of relates to this. First the fuel gauge was gone for about 2 years and then the fuel pump died. I learned that when the tank was below 1/3 full the contacts for the level indicator was out the gas. The gas lubricates the little copper contacts that wipe across the winding. Well the fuel pump is often out of the gas when the level gets low too. So I thinkthat is why it wore out. Gas level too low. The worse case is running the fuel pump with no gas in the tank, no lubrication for the pump. Well anyway I replaced everything and I was told to replace the connectors and splice the wires since these are often damage after the fuel pump goes. I was advised to do this this even if everything looked fine. It did not look like your pictures but I didn't want to drop the tank again. So far so good now we keep the tank above 1/2 full. Take care of that Subaru, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aircraft engineer Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 so apparently my off the cuff response about the connection being the issue was accurate? I did an IMP headlight where the plastic plug was melted, too. Similar look, just not in as "dangerous" a location. Go back to the JY and cut off the plug as far back up the harness as you can and splice it in. The terminals in the receptacle look like they are "cleanable" - scrape a bit and wash out. IF you can find just a "dab" of "no-alox" paste (it's for connecting aluminum wiring to copper) put a tiny amount on the connector lugs (inside the one that melted) before pushing them over the spades. use a toothpick and don't get it on the outside - it's a conductor but it will stop the corrosion in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timstiles Posted April 8, 2008 Author Share Posted April 8, 2008 yup you were right on the money. I went to the picknpull yard today and found 1 lonely 93 Impreza. Sure aren't many Subarus in junkyards around here! Fortunately the car had the same internal fuel pump harness as my 96 legacy. I got that and the harness from the top side. The subaru dealer wanted $62 for the part (6 inches of wire with 2 ring terminals) , the counter guy at picknpull didn't charge me! Got home, put it back together and it fired right up. The Airtex brand fuel pump I got from Carquest is louder than the engine at idle which is already driving me crazy , I think I'm in for a battle getting the store to take it back. 2 quick questions to save new repetitive threads. 1) for the 96 legacy what is the cheapest, easiest and most reliable path to turbodom (i've read 4 forums til my eyes hurt but am probably more confused than when i started) 2) same car has oil leaks, if it's not coming from the front of the engine, valve covers, rear main, oil filter, or separator plate, where else can it leak from ? its burning off the exhaust at the "Y" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aircraft engineer Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 the one I did had a double wammy - a cam seal plus the valve cover gaskets (drivers side but did both anyway) it's not "difficult" to fix, just time consuming. and it runs down to the pipe and burns off there. Check your power steering too - it can also leak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timstiles Posted April 8, 2008 Author Share Posted April 8, 2008 I replaced both valve cover gaskets this weekend and degunked and pressure washed the undercarriage and engine from the top and bottom. Hopefully that will help me spot where it's coming from. Is is possible to do the EJ22 head gaskets with the engine in the car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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