trouble code 34 on spfi'ed ea81

[Gloyale]

that is not solving the root cause of the problem, its just circumventing it.

Actually it's elimintaing the cause of the problem. Solving it forever.

 

 

the way you go on about the evap/purge system makes it obvious that you're the one lacking understanding here. can you use your awesome konwledge and rhetoric to explain to me how disabling the purge solenoid allows the system to operate "as it should?"

 

 

I think you don't understand. Those solenoids DISABLE the emission equipment until warmed up. Bypassing the solenoids (correctly) would leave the Evap and EGR systems functioning.

 

Now pre warm up performance might suffer a tad, but I doubt in Cali that will be much of an issue.

 

If you really want to install new solenoids, we told you where to get better ones. You yourself found out that even those fail sometimes. And the rate will get higher and higher as time goes on. The resistor idea is a more permanent solution.

 

 

Again, I don't always like how he says it, but GD is trying to give you good advice.

[mountaingoatgruff]

Actually it's elimintaing the cause of the problem. Solving it forever.

 

 

 

 

 

I think you don't understand. Those solenoids DISABLE the emission equipment until warmed up. Bypassing the solenoids (correctly) would leave the Evap and EGR systems functioning.

 

Now pre warm up performance might suffer a tad, but I doubt in Cali that will be much of an issue.

 

If you really want to install new solenoids, we told you where to get better ones. You yourself found out that even those fail sometimes. And the rate will get higher and higher as time goes on. The resistor idea is a more permanent solution.

 

 

Again, I don't always like how he says it, but GD is trying to give you good advice.

 

 

why is it that when somebody disagrees with you they automatically must not understand? you guys assume that because i don't want to do what you're saying i'm too dumb to figure out how.

 

you guys should run for office, you're both fit to be politicians with your ideas and methods to "help" people.

 

i know the solenoids disable the systems until warmup, that was said quite a while ago. what neither of you seem to understand is that a smog referee will be inspecting my car to verify that the solenoids are doing that.

 

i just got off the phone with the cali air resources board and the cali bureau of automotive repair and i spoke personally to my local smog ref. if you guys heard those conversations you'd understand my position. the man that will be inspecting my car said he will check to see that everything is hooked up PROPERLY. its not a matter of whether he'll actually do all those checks, i don't want to leave the opportunity for him to say "this isn't right."

 

by the way, what you're insisting i should do is illegal in ca. you two need to educate yourselves in ca smog laws if you're going to instruct ca residents on how to "repair" their cars.

[Gloyale]

why is it that when somebody disagrees with you they automatically must not understand? you guys assume that because i don't want to do what you're saying i'm too dumb to figure out how.

 

you guys should run for office, you're both fit to be politicians with your ideas and methods to "help" people.

 

i know the solenoids disable the systems until warmup, that was said quite a while ago. what neither of you seem to understand is that a smog referee will be inspecting my car to verify that the solenoids are doing that.

 

i just got off the phone with the cali air resources board and the cali bureau of automotive repair and i spoke personally to my local smog ref. if you guys heard those conversations you'd understand my position. the man that will be inspecting my car said he will check to see that everything is hooked up PROPERLY. its not a matter of whether he'll actually do all those checks, i don't want to leave the opportunity for him to say "this isn't right."

 

by the way, what you're insisting i should do is illegal in ca. you two need to educate yourselves in ca smog laws if you're going to instruct ca residents on how to "repair" their cars.

 

We're trying to help. Lots of other here have struggled trying to repair the solenoids only to have the code KEEP COMING BACK.

 

If the CEL comes on it doesn't matter what ever else he may look at. The test will be conducted with the engine warm. And the standards set for it apply to it only in the warmed up state. There is no way in hell the guy is going to wait for hte car to cool down, put a vaccum pump on the Solenoid, and test that it shuts OFF the EGR before warm-up.

 

I personally want to see you be able to drive this car in Cali. Neither of the methods I've discussed will negatively affect the emissions performance.

 

Frankly the Resistor method may be you're most failure proof method. And I would think keeping the CEL off would be mission #1.

 

But by all means try to use a new solenoid.

 

BTW, I was born in Cali, and I got my very first liscense there.

 

And why didn't you just tap and plug the ports ASV ports on the heads? That would be way less noticable.

[GeneralDisorder]

the problem here is that i said "as it should."

 

The problem is that you are at a different level of mechanical education than "us" (Gloyale, and Myself at least).

 

You think that "as it should" means it must function as some all-knowning Subaru engineer thought it should function two decades ago when it was designed. You haven't yet reached the level where you can look at those engineer's ideas - understand them - and think of NEW ways for those same ideas to still function.

 

When I hear you say (type) something like "as it should" I immediately think "as it should according to whom?". There's a big difference between looking at it your way, and looking at it my way. What you need to understand is that there are a million and one ways to get to the same result, and given 100 engineers you'll get 100 different implementations of the same system. Understanding the GOAL is more important than the details of the implementation. Understand the goal, forget about how it was done by those guys in Japan in the 80's, and get there using your own abilities.

 

Your mind isn't open to the possibility that there is another way. You continue to smack your head against a code 34 wall and wonder why it hurts.... open your mind to another solution. Nail a pillow to the wall - so it wasn't there when the wall was built - does that make it any less useful?

 

Think outside the box man.

 

GD

[GeneralDisorder]

i know the solenoids disable the systems until warmup, that was said quite a while ago. what neither of you seem to understand is that a smog referee will be inspecting my car to verify that the solenoids are doing that.

 

No.... no they won't. The smog tests are only allowed to be performed after warm-up. Many emissions devices have to be off durring cold running, and the fuel system will be in open-loop operation. The O2 sensor is ignored and standard fuel/ignition maps are used. The engine will perform WAY outside the testing limits. That's is the nature of internal combustion engines in automotive applications. Emissions tests are always administered when warm - they have to be.

 

Your statement above indicates you still have an incomplete understand of the situation here.

 

GD

[mountaingoatgruff]

i asked the smog referee on the phone and he said that in order for my car to be tested and smog certified as a 92 loyale all emissions related equipment installed from the 92 loyale must be transfered without modification. any modification to those systems would need further inspection and certification of compliance from the ca air resources board and those parts would then be considered "aftermarket."

 

maybe i'm not talking to the right referee here, maybe i'm being overly defensive, maybe you guys could just understand my position and let me do with my car what i am going to do anyways. some day when i get out of ca i'd be glad to toss the solenoids and use resistors to satisfy the ecu. i may do it after i get my initial smog certification out of the way.

 

what this boils down to for me is that i don't want to deal with state employee jerkoffs deeper in my junk than absolutely necessary and i don't want to have to drive my car all over ca for a referee inspection then a c.a.r.b. inspection then a sniffer test and to the dmv between each.

 

i don't feel a need to justify my position beyond what i've already said and i certainly don't need to prove my level of mechanical understanding to anyone on the internet. i made it plain what i was after and that i am not going to change my mind, why can't you guys accept that?

[GeneralDisorder]

i asked the smog referee on the phone and he said that in order for my car to be tested and smog certified as a 92 loyale all emissions related equipment installed from the 92 loyale must be transfered without modification. any modification to those systems would need further inspection and certification of compliance from the ca air resources board and those parts would then be considered "aftermarket."

 

Now you're just being totally ignorant. First of all - of course they HAVE to say that. These guys are trained to some extent to look for things like EGR valves, and such - they don't know specifics of each model. They go off a basic understanding of emissions devices and principles. If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck sort of thing. Yes they will do an "inspection", and they will do a tail-pipe test. As long as it looks good, and performs good they aren't going to be testing solenoids for proper functioning - they wouldn't even know what those solenoids are for, and they won't care. Their knowledge is not that in-depth - they are looking for general proper functioning - they will want to see that there is a CEL lamp that comes on with igntion key-up and goes out when started... ect.

 

Furthermore - if they do pull some kind of Subaru expert out of the woodwork and go through your installation with a fine tooth comb (trust me - that's not how this works), then you are screwed anyway - you have '92 fuel injection on an obviously pushrod engine - there's no way that anyone even remotely versed in EA Subaru's will miss that. And if they do they certainly aren't going to understand that nature of a few solenoids that look to be hooked up as normal.

 

They are looking for big, obvious, red flags. He/she will have a checklist of stuff to look for to make sure it's "in place" (visual verification that it's ON THE CAR). They will check the CEL for functioning. Then the tail-pipe test will tell them all they need to know. As long as it passes, then they simply assume that the stuff they visually verified to be "in place" is working.

 

Don't be scared of these emissions refs - they are people just like us. They don't know everything - chances are they don't know a lot outside of the nepetism that got them their government job in the first place. They aren't going to spend any more time than neccesary hassleing the guy with the mid-80's Subaru. They are expecting to see a transplant of a later model engine into an older car - they expect it to be cobbled together with chewing gum and masking tape - it's what they are used to seeing. Their only concern is their visual checklist, tail-pipe test, and making sure their asses are covered.

 

It's that simple. If you still don't get it.... I can't break it down any more monosylabically than that - some people just can't be taught to think for themselves I guess.

 

GD

[Gloyale]

 

maybe i'm not talking to the right referee here, maybe i'm being overly defensive, maybe you guys could just understand my position and let me do with my car what i am going to do anyways.

 

 

How could we stop you?

 

Really, I WANT you to be driving you're car. Hopefully you'll find functioning solenoids to hook up and all will be well.

 

My fingers are Crossed for ya.