But, but, but ... what about the all AWD?

[Durania]

The bright side is at least its RWD.

 

Nipper, I agree, let's hope they don't lose the boxer motor.

[subaru360]

I've read that toyota is working with subaru to build a new light, cheap rwd car. A sort of reincarnation of the old AE86 corolla of Initial D fame. I guess this is the car.

[jomo12]

I would point you to this comment on the linked thread:

 

I for one always trust these MotorTrend type sketches. I'm off to go pour my life savings into Subaru based on this drawing. There is no way this can go wrong. Now I've got to go buy some lottery tickets, I got a great tip by some gypsy fortuneteller in the subway.

 

Finally: some sober analysis of a chalk drawing.

[ktsubaru]

Well with gas mileage becoming peoples top concern, its not pissing it away. Remeber they are a small company, and can not afford not too have a small car thats effecient on fuel. Also they started out as 2wd, so they arent pissing it all away.

 

 

Now if they got rid of thier engine, then yes.

 

 

nipper

 

 

Toyota was selling a minivan called "ESTIMA" in Japan. It was orginally a MR layout van and they were promoting as well balanced minivan. Now, when they changed the model to the type they call MCR30 and ACR30, they quit doing that and they put the motor on the front. I was so disappointed with Toyota that they even deny their own invention.

 

So, I agree with nipper, if Subaru get rid of boxer.... I myself feel a shame as Japanese.

 

I live in Dallas, TX and when it rains or get storm, I love the Boxer+AWD. There's a quite difference from other cars.

[screwbaru2]

My wife is not a motor head. She basicly drives em and breaks em. I showed her this post. Her reaction? WTF no AWD!?!?!?!

[screwbaru2]

My feeling is that you are going to see a rapid re-introduction of 2WD cars by Subaru. AWD saps gas mileage, performance, is mechanically complex/costly to develop and more expensive to buy. Most of America does not need this. Yes, DOES not need this. The few places that do, only need it occasionally in the winter. With gas on the march to $4 a gallon, Subaru has to begin to rethink it's products, or risk losing huge pieces of the market. I have talked to a few recently that are eliminating Subaru, BECAUSE they don't want AWD and the associated gas mileage costs. That's a 3 car loss of sales, just with people I know!!

 

Sure AWD is nice to have and fun to play with off road, but that buyer will still be able to get it as an option I'm sure.

 

Time will tell how the "Toyota" influence effects Subaru, but I predict some major change between that and the rise in fuel prices.

 

todd

 

America doesn't need AWD?!? Doesn't it rain where you live? I love my AWD on wet roads. I NEED IT. The 1st thing I said after driving a AWD for the 1st time was I'll never own a 2wd again. I grew up driving RWD cars and laughed at the FWD when a first saw them. But AWD is nothing to laugh at, it is to be marvaled. As far as MPG the safety of AWD is worth paying for, Darwinism will weed out those who don't think so.

[The Dude]

America doesn't need AWD?!? Doesn't it rain where you live? I love my AWD on wet roads. I NEED IT. The 1st thing I said after driving a AWD for the 1st time was I'll never own a 2wd again. I grew up driving RWD cars and laughed at the FWD when a first saw them. But AWD is nothing to laugh at, it is to be marvaled. As far as MPG the safety of AWD is worth paying for, Darwinism will weed out those who don't think so.

 

Subaru (Fuji Heavy Industries) has lost money for two out of the last two years. Maybe economic Darwinism will weed out Subaru if they fail to evolve. The present AWD market segment is barely large enough to sustain Subaru. If the appetite for AWD vehicles contracts due to higher gas prices, as I can promise you it will, Subaru could be in real trouble. Four dollar a gallon gas is just the beginning. At ten dollars a gallon we'll all driving Smarts or riding our bikes. Any remaining Subarus will be used only as planters.

[backwoodsboy]

If this is gonna turn into a "gas price" thread, allow me to speculate.

 

#1 - I know that Ford and GM still get a sizeable chunk of change through "fleet" vehicle sales. This being said, their reliability (and gas mileage) are in the toilet, and everyone knows it.

 

I rent vehicles for a living, and more and more customers want a "dependable Japanese car" instead of a chevy malibu thats just like the one they have "in the shop"

 

#2 - If (when) gas hits 4 bucks a gallon (or higher ) Subaru will STILL be ahead of the big-three in fuel economy (and reliability) .... and WE will have bigger things to worry about. :-\

[nipper]

If this is gonna turn into a "gas price" thread, allow me to speculate.

 

#1 - I know that Ford and GM still get a sizeable chunk of change through "fleet" vehicle sales. This being said, their reliability (and gas mileage) are in the toilet, and everyone knows it.

 

I rent vehicles for a living, and more and more customers want a "dependable Japanese car" instead of a chevy malibu thats just like the one they have "in the shop"

 

#2 - If (when) gas hits 4 bucks a gallon (or higher ) Subaru will STILL be ahead of the big-three in fuel economy (and reliability) .... and WE will have bigger things to worry about. :-\

 

This is really old thinking. Ford and GM quality are way up, they just have to shake the bad rep they have.

 

Ford and GM have many more cars that get better gas mileage then subaru does presently. SUbaru right now is at an advantage, as they absorb people dropping big SUV's for subarus. Eventually if gas keeps going up, they wiill loose out to other cars that get better mileage. After all we all know, very few people actually need or use thier 4wd/awd in those SUV's.

 

Subaru will need a 2wd car to stay competative. RWD is more controlable in a skid then FWD (if your not used to it and 90% of the popultaion dont have driving skills past turn key).

 

Also with costs going up, they need a cheap car. Its bad enough people are walking away from houses, and now starting to walk away from car loans. One thing they can't walk away from is food (just had a thought, maybe high food prices will end the obescity crises). People will need cheap cars with good gas mileage. Now is the time for them to jump in the frey, instead of playing catch up like chrysler will have too (ford and GM have cars ready to sell if the market demands it).

 

I tried finding a report that was easily readable, but they arent. Everyones CAFE rating has dropped since 2003 (including subaru from 33 to 29), and thats what has to change.

 

For now on in, yes, its all about gas mileage and survival. If Chrysler doesnt change thier attitude, they are doomed. Even Aston Martin, Rolls,, high end cars you would think that are immune from it, are trying thier best to raise thier CAFE ratings.

 

nipper

[backwoodsboy]

This is really old thinking.

 

Maybe so, but up here... this is the way most people are at my rental counter.

 

Ford and GM quality are way up, they just have to shake the bad rep they have.

 

This is true of many models, lets hope they can do it

 

I dont necessarily agree with all the folks who say that they NEED an AWD. My subaru (Bucky) got me through the last winter just fine in 2wd.

 

If subaru made a 2wd again, I would be open to buying it. Especially considering the gas mileage.

[Gloyale]

America doesn't need AWD?!? Doesn't it rain where you live? I love my AWD on wet roads. I NEED IT. The 1st thing I said after driving a AWD for the 1st time was I'll never own a 2wd again. I grew up driving RWD cars and laughed at the FWD when a first saw them. But AWD is nothing to laugh at, it is to be marvaled. As far as MPG the safety of AWD is worth paying for, Darwinism will weed out those who don't think so.

 

 

If this where true, Subarus would not sell in Europe. But they have actually been gaining market share over there.

 

Subaru Needs to stay committed to AWD, durable vehichles. They just need to make them Diesel/electric hybids. If they do introduce a small 2wd *efficiency* car, it should be full electric.

[3eyedwagon]

America doesn't need AWD?!? Doesn't it rain where you live? I love my AWD on wet roads. I NEED IT.

 

As far as MPG the safety of AWD is worth paying for, Darwinism will weed out those who don't think so.

 

It rains "just a bit" where I live, and I've made it my whole life without AWD. While AWD is nice, in the end, it isn't a necessity by any means. I could see justifying it in a place that gets snow 9 months out of the year, like maybe Alaska. However, to most of the 48 states, AWD is hardly a necessity. If someone can't drive a RWD or FWD vehicle in the wet, they probably shouldn't have a license!! As for the whole Darwinism aspect, if that holds true; around 90+% of people in the greater Seattle area should be killed in fatality car wrecks any time now, as most of the cars driving up, and down I-5 every day aren't AWD.

[fnlyfnd]

AWD provides better traction in any condition.

[3eyedwagon]

AWD provides better traction in any condition.

 

Ummmmm. Thanks?

[subaruplatt]

If this where true, Subarus would not sell in Europe. But they have actually been gaining market share over there.

 

Subaru Needs to stay committed to AWD, durable vehichles. They just need to make them Diesel/electric hybids. If they do introduce a small 2wd *efficiency* car, it should be full electric.

 

I agree Better power sources like diesel. Maybe Haldex type AWD, ( scream! ) Please keep the four wheel drive and the extra strong frame.

 

One thing most people don't realize is how much safer the subaru is in a crash.

 

In my experience the subaru was the cheapest real car we could find.

 

Try and make up that kind of strength with less.

 

I have some swamp land to sell you in a town called EPA .

[subaru360]

Hmm wonder what they will put in this for a transmission? Something new? Something from toyota? How about a rear diff R180?

[subaruplatt]

*faint*

 

 

nipper

Just get rid of the sudo Alpha Romeo bumper!

[bulwnkl]

AWD provides better traction in any condition.

 

This may sound silly, but tires and weight provide traction, not number of wheels driven. Rarely indeed do people find themselves in trouble for only having 1 or 2 wheels under power rather than 2 - 4 under power. Most always folks find themselves in trouble for entering a corner too fast, braking too late, and so forth. AWD does zip for that. I do like AWD or 4WD for off-roading, but again almost no one does that, and even then FWD can achieve a great deal of what AWD can.

[hankosolder2]

This may sound silly, but tires and weight provide traction, not number of wheels driven. Rarely indeed do people find themselves in trouble for only having 1 or 2 wheels under power rather than 2 - 4 under power. Most always folks find themselves in trouble for entering a corner too fast, braking too late, and so forth. AWD does zip for that. I do like AWD or 4WD for off-roading, but again almost no one does that, and even then FWD can achieve a great deal of what AWD can.

 

Well, I'm very excited at the prospect of a RWD Subaru, unless it's overly Toyotafied. Ultimately, RWD offers a degree of car control to the skilled driver that FWD and AWD don't.

 

So long as AWD is at least an option on the rest of the product line, I don't see anything to get up in arms about. Those who want it can have it, and those who don't want it can enjoy gas savings, lower cost, etc.

 

For accelleration, I would argue that AWD is advantageous even in dry weather over FWD... even a moderately powered FWD car will often have it's accelleration limited by wheel spin when trying to (for example) make a left from a dead stop at an intersection, where an AWD can simply gas-n-go.

 

Nathan

[The Dude]

For accelleration, I would argue that AWD is advantageous even in dry weather over FWD... even a moderately powered FWD car will often have it's accelleration limited by wheel spin when trying to (for example) make a left from a dead stop at an intersection, where an AWD can simply gas-n-go.

 

Nathan

 

Except of course, for the WRX. Apparently a number of new WRX drivers can resist "laying a patch". So, they rev the engine, drop the clutch and.........SNAP off a pinion gear in the manual transmission. It's over two grand to fix the tranny and it's NOT covered under warranty. In a 2WD car excessive power is "burned" off when the wheels on one axle spin. But with AWD all four wheels stick to the ground and the sudden application of force is concentrated in the manual transmission, which can't take it.

[Major Lazy]

well - about the mid engine thing -

 

yea ... hmmm that rear bumper kind of looks like a tribeca grill.....sub hinting its rear engine ala porsche?

[fnlyfnd]

FWD = torque steer

 

Sure tires and weight provide traction, but that has to be controlled for; therefore leaving the difference in the drive system.

[four-fleet-feet]

Guess I won't be getting one of these.

 

If I wanted a quasi-Lexus I'd already be driving an RX400h, which is the only other car I've ever wanted as much as an Impreza.

 

You'll note I bought an Imp, please.

[Major Lazy]

FWD = torque steer

 

OK, at the risk of being branded a sub noob for life and ridiculed and flamed ...

 

I always thought torque steer was due to the tranverse engine mount some cars have. I always thought that the flat symmetrical sub motor would minimize if not eliminate torque steer. I have never driven a fwd subaru so I have NO basis on which to judge other than theory. (the 82 hatch i used to have w/ hi lo had not near enough power to do it in fwd)

[The Dude]

OK, at the risk of being branded a sub noob for life and ridiculed and flamed ...

 

I always thought torque steer was due to the tranverse engine mount some cars have. I always thought that the flat symmetrical sub motor would minimize if not eliminate torque steer. I have never driven a fwd subaru so I have NO basis on which to judge other than theory. (the 82 hatch i used to have w/ hi lo had not near enough power to do it in fwd)

 

 

If your Suby has an AT, just install the fuse to experience a 2WD Subaru and torque steer. Torque steering has nothing to do with the engine and everything to do with the fact that the front wheels are doing BOTH the steering and the driving. Most people find the oversteering in a front 2WD car to be more problematic than torque steering.