Slowly going back together........but I need some advice

[Erik R]

I pulled the engine out of my '87 GL EA82 last week. It had lost a LOT of power, felt like the A/C was on all the time...........noisy lash adjusters, almost sounded like a rod knock. Compression was 140's on the even side and 170's on the odd side (where the noisy adjusters were).

This has been an "after hours" project; sometimes I go in early and work on it. Didn't touch it on the weekend or holiday. Just a couple of hours a day during the work week.

 

The engine has been on the bench and slowly; as time allows, it's getting some much needed attention.

So far, this is what I've done:

 

Replaced all "lip" seals on crank, cams and oil pump.

 

Removed cam case from "dizzy" side and replace all four lash adjusters (even when cleaned, they would not pump up).

 

Clean and blow-out cam case and relief valve. Re-install with new "o"ring and fresh sealer.

 

Replaced "Mickey-Mouse" seal and O-ring on oil pump body. Pump shows little signs of wear and is well within tolerances given in manual. Lip seal was pliable and dry on the out side, but I replaced it anyway.

 

Removed flywheel for re-sufacing. Replace and install new clutch and pilot bearing (I know, I paid too much :-( ).

 

Removed and cleaned intake manifold. Seals at the ends were soft and leaking. Almost didn't get two of the bolts out.....lots of corrosion here. Cleaned with "Roloc" wheel and skinned new gaskets with sealer. Anti-seize on bolt threads and under bolt heads; hoping for easy maintenance later. Also, anti-seize on EGR tube threads and under tubing nuts. Replaced PCV valve and hose to junction.

 

Relaced water pump with a new one, recycled studs from old pump. New "o" ring on inlet tube.

 

Install new timing belts. Replace covers and install crank pulley.

 

Now I just need to pull the release fork from trans., replace boot, lube pivots and replace T/O bearing....new retaining clips, of course. Then I will drop the engine back in.

 

Note:

In trying to remove the timing pulleys from crank snout, I noticed the manual said they would slide off........NOT!! apparently, someone got over zealous with red lock-tite and it seeped under these pulleys.........I had to destroy them with a three-jaw puller to get them off.........I needed to change the crank seal behind them.

Oh, no lock-tite used in the re-install, just torqued to 79 ft. lbs.

Good thing I still had my original engine (melted down at 197k...........don't ask, I wasn't the owner at the time) with pulleys still attached........:-) .

With the Holidays and family commitments, I haven't had time to post and update sooner.

 

Sorry if this is all too routine or boring. I am an "FNG" here, so please bear with me.

Thanks for reading......:-)

[Ma-fia]

That's some account you posted!

Where do you work? Must be nice to rebuild your own engine "by the way"...

[Erik R]

I got it all together yesterday. One problem, though.

 

NO Compression!

 

Maybe 60 psi on one bank and 90 psi on the other.............

 

I double checked the timing belts and their respective alignments..........

 

Did I get the cams out of phase?

 

This is why I posted this little project. If I have anything to do with it; there will be problems..................

 

Man, I am just glad I don't do this for a living........I would be eating this job and loading up my tools and looking for employment elsewhere .

 

Any suggestions on something I overlooked would be appreciated.......

 

My apologies to the Moderators if this is a "beaten to death" subject, or repetitive............I have VERY little time for the 'net as of late.

 

TIA

[frag]

While you're waiting for experts to answer... one usually take compression reading when the engine is at operating temp and with a little oil still on the cylinders wall.

Maybe it's normal for the compression to be lower if you take the reading on a cold engine (i presume maybe eronneously that you took compression readings before starting the engine) with little or no oil on the cylinder walls?

[Skip]

Erik, sorry, I am not one of the experts you may be waiting for.

I just need to ask

1) did you use the middle of the three belt timing marks - not the ignition timing mark

2) were the cams in a 180 deg phase relationship when you were done? I.e. one dot up, one dot down as seen here

And finally Frag's sug is a good one and did you crank it long enough for the lifters to pump up after the rebuild? Plus the throttle should be wide open when doing the comp test.

Hope this helps

[Erik R]

Frag, no I didn't warm-up the engine first.............so I guess there is not much oil on the cylinder walls.............it never started either.

In fact, it does not sound right when cranking, almost like a lawn mower engine; one-lung type sound.

 

Skip, yes; that is how it all looked when I put the covers on.....

Is it possible I put the flywhell on wrong?

Can it be installed so that the timing marks are off? (on the flywheel)

 

I haven't been back over to the shop to pull the covers back off and check to make sure I wasn't off a tooth on the cam sprockets.......

 

You guys ever crank an engine over with the spark plugs out? That's what it sounds like with the plugs IN>>>>>

[Skip]

Erik, far as I know the flywheel will only go one one way. It's all about the bolt spacing.

you did use the three little marks?

[Erik R]

Sorry, Yes; I did use the three marks as pictured here and in the manual............I did not use the "degreed" marks which are off to the right about 45* or so (if the flywheel is stationary and not moved; otherwise, moved counter-clockwise)

[Erik R]

My passenger side belt cover does not have a "notch" in the six o'clock position; only at the twelve.

I will see tomorrow just what I did.................

 

Per the manual, I may have installed my dizzy wrong too. I dropped it in when the belts were lined up............not thinking it should go in when the "degree" marks are at "0"......... Duh!

[MilesFox]

if part of the belt cover is missing, the marks will line up with the seam of the cam case cover(valve cover)

 

one notch will be up on the driver side, and the passenger side will be down

 

line the 3 marks to bring 1 cyl to tdc. put on driver side belt

turn crank 360 deg, so cam turns 180, pointing down

line up the passenger cam to up, and put on belt

 

rotate crank 360 degrees so cam turns 180 to point down.

 

now the driver side cam will be up

turn till you get the ignition timing marks, set distributor

 

http://www.warpthree.com/milesfox/subaru/service/timingbelt.htm

[tailgatewagon]

i saw a guy who had this problem (well somthing like it) and he didnt have the ditzy in right. also after all the work on his car (it was running when torn down) his coil had gone but there was still spark. so if you get it all together and have triple checked everything then try the coil. it took us two weeks to figure out what was wrong. anyway good luck there is alot of help to be had here on the board),

 

 

brian

 

oh and dont worry about being an FNG. were all on the same ladder for the most part and all climbing tword the stars(yea yea ill shut up now)......

[Skip]

I don't know how to say this easily but, Donald is incorrect when he says

"line the 3 marks to bring 1 cyl to tdc. put on driver side belt

Please do not get confused by this Erik. This is not TDC (Top Dead Center).

When the middle of the three marks is aligned the pistons are all at the midway travel in the cylinders

- not w #1 at TDC

Since you are having ignition timing issues this could be confusing to you as he also says

"turn till you get the ignition timing marks, set distributor"

This is also only partially true,

it must be on #1 compression for this to be accurate.

You need to verify #1 is on compression and not exhaust.

If the cam cover is off, you can look for both cam lobes in #1 to be pointing toward the out side of the engine. If the lobes are point into the engine it's on exhaust.

If the case is on a small cotton ball in the spark plug hole will blow out as you bring the piston up, if its on comp.

Then you can insert the dist with the rotor pointing to number 1 spark plug tower.

Just trying to help

[MilesFox]

ok skip. i learned something..

 

but if you folloe my procedure step by step, tou will be in the right orientation for the dist

 

asfter the timing belts are aligned, driver side cam up, then the next turn till you bring the ign marks to view, the #1 cyl will be at TDC

 

i was not wrong in my procedure. but i learned the 3 marks centered the pistons in their stroke

 

as i can do timing belts and they fire up on the first try..

[Skip]

okay donald, the pict I posted may be worth

a entire written procedure.

Erik admitted to maybe having the distributor wrong and needed a way to find #1 on TDC on compression

You did not address this situation

[MilesFox]

Originally posted by MilesFox

 

after the timing belts are aligned, driver side cam up, then the next turn till you bring the ign marks to view, the #1 cyl will be at TDC

 

 

anyway, my post is better than no one responding to begin with. we can battle over how articulate to be on the matter, but that is beside the point

 

we all appreciate your knowledge, skip, as i have learned a thing or two myself.

 

if i get the timing wrong the first time, a 180 flip of the dist will usually do it.

 

its all about keeping track of how many times you turn the crank during the whole procedure.

 

and i know of how the pics alone in the hynes book can throw off the procedure-if you dont read the text thoroughly

 

but a lot of times no one will get it right on the forst time...unless they do timing belts all day long every day.

 

but doing the work yourself is the best teacher, and is widely recommended across the board

[Erik R]

It wasn't what I thought................

 

I got this done yesterday and am just now reading the replies above..............good points by all, BTW :cool:

 

I have two Haynes manuals for the Subaru, one was printed in '91; the other in '98. There are vast differences between them. The earlier one only covers the ea82 in a supplement section, but shows in great detail how to drop in the dizzy.

The later printing includes the ea82 in sec. 2 b........but does not accurately describe the dizzy drop in procedure.

 

That was the least of my problems, as I only had 60-65 lbs compression in all cylinders................I knew it would never fire that way.................so I pulled the plugs back out and put some motor oil in the cyls and checked it again.............it didn't pick up much, just a few lbs.

 

So I got to thinking............this is a horizontally opposed four cycle engine and has to rotate 720 degrees to cycle all the way through the 4 cycles............even though I followed the book and all the timing marks lined up,

I was 180 degrees out on both cams :temper:

So I flopped the cams over 180 and voila.............compression!!

Now I have 140 psi + in all cyls........

So, all I had to do was get my dizzy in right.................and I got fire (with a little smoke from the oil injection I did).

I set the timing at 20 BTC, green connectors plugged in.

Then I ran out of daylight.

I hope to finish up today.........my '71 F-250 is killing me on gas $$

 

Thanks for all your responses.

Miles, you're right; I have learned a lot (the hard way), but it was worth it .

[toybuilder]

Glad to hear that you figured it out. Thank you for sharing your experience.

[Skip]

Well done Erik, glad you got it fixed, thanks for the update

[MilesFox]

good deal. glad you got it working. i hope that my information as well as skips proved to be equally valuable. its easy to lose track of crank rotation if you are not too familiar wit soob timing belts

[Erik R]

Actually Miles, I had done this before on this car. Once in '98 and again in 2000.....

 

I don't know, I guess I just couldn't remember how I did it.....or I was lucky.............beginner's luck, maybe.....

 

I did also look into the spark plug hole and turn the crank s l o w l y so as to see the intake valve (it is viewable this way). I noted that when the pistons were coming up, the intake was opening!!!!!

Definately a bad sign............but hey, I learned a little./ Itwas worth it.

The only thing that is tough is putting the nuts on the water pump studs with the fan clutch in the way........that takes some practice!

[MilesFox]

yeah, that is the only thing on a soob that can be a pain in the A. but you get the hang of them after a while, ask jim

[GeneralDisorder]

WOW! Don't try that with an interferance engine! At least the soob was forgiving enough to allow you to try again. Nice work - glad to hear it's running.

 

GD