My new old car - '86 GL Wagon - Questions

[thecryoflove]

Hey all. New to the forums. Was given a '94 Suzuki Sidekick that was not running. Got it running and sold it for $2250, to buy a $380 1986 Subaru GL Wagon. EA82 engine, 5 speed manual. Anyways... it needs some work on it. I got about 16 MPH on the first check (only 104 miles but I was too anxious) and was pretty disappointed. The brakes are really soft, bled them once and no difference though I read you need to do it RR, LF, LR, RF, so I'm gonna do it again (how much of a difference does it really make?). There's a leak in the exhaust...anyways I'm stoked for the cheapness of it. Will be asking more questions and posting pictures tomorrow.

 

Question:

 

As far as a general tune up goes, upon getting a Subaru, what are the first things I need to check/replace?

[[HTi]Johnson]

First things, plugs, wire, cap and rotor. Bring the cap and rotor into the store to compare to the ones they give you, they like to give the wrong ones.

 

Fuel filters, I think if it is carb'd, there's two. One in the engine bay and one in front of the rear tire, under the car, above a shield, next to the fuel pump.

 

For the brakes, I bleed LF, RR, RF, LR. Make sure the fluid that's coming out is good looking and that you're keeping the brake resevoir topped off.

 

Goto a local Subaru dealer and get a thermostat. The dealer is the only one that carries the right Thermostat, all aftermarket ones seem to suck and not be as flowing.

 

If your mileage doesn't improve after that, I'd check your catalytic convertor to see if it is clogged, that could be the reason your car is getting crap mileage, and if the leak is in front of the convertor, it could also be from too much back pressure because of the convertor. Do you have slow acceleration?

 

I'd do timing belts too. Here's a write up on how to do, thanks to Board member, Milesfox.

 

Welcome to the board and don't feel afraid to ask questions, after you search.

[Gloyale]

If you're brake pedal still has alot of give after bleeding, often it means you need new rear shoes. The linings are thin and the auto adjuster only takes up so much. You end up with the Shoes having to travel pretty far before making contact with the drum.

[Quidam]

Hey all.1986 Subaru GL Wagon. EA82 engine, 5 speed manual. Anyways... I got about 16 MPH on the first check (only 104 miles but I was too anxious) and was pretty disappointed. The brakes are really soft so I'm gonna do it again (how much of a difference does it really make?). There's a leak in the exhaust..Will be asking more questions and posting pictures tomorrow.

 

 

Hey,

 

Good suggestions on what to do posted. Bleed the brakes as suggested, LF, RR, RF, LR. It does make a difference.

 

You should get a nominal 28 mpg once it's tuned up.

 

Get the exhaust leak fixed. It does make a difference in power and fuel mileage.

 

Doug

[thecryoflove]

Johnson']First things' date=' plugs, wire, cap and rotor. Bring the cap and rotor into the store to compare to the ones they give you, they like to give the wrong ones.

 

Fuel filters, I think if it is carb'd, there's two. One in the engine bay and one in front of the rear tire, under the car, above a shield, next to the fuel pump.

 

For the brakes, I bleed LF, RR, RF, LR. Make sure the fluid that's coming out is good looking and that you're keeping the brake resevoir topped off.

 

Goto a local Subaru dealer and get a thermostat. The dealer is the only one that carries the right Thermostat, all aftermarket ones seem to suck and not be as flowing.

 

If your mileage doesn't improve after that, I'd check your catalytic convertor to see if it is clogged, that could be the reason your car is getting crap mileage, and if the leak is in front of the convertor, it could also be from too much back pressure because of the convertor. Do you have slow acceleration?

 

I'd do timing belts too. Here's a write up on how to do, thanks to Board member, Milesfox.

 

Welcome to the board and don't feel afraid to ask questions, after you search.

 

Replacing the thermostat will improve overall running condition? Also, I took it in to get the muffler replaced and I've been told I have one bad catalytic converter. Can I just remove it and hollow it out till I can afford a new one?

[[HTi]Johnson]

Replacing the thermostat will improve overall running condition? Also, I took it in to get the muffler replaced and I've been told I have one bad catalytic converter. Can I just remove it and hollow it out till I can afford a new one?

Yes, you can remove or hollow it out, as long as you don't have to pass emissions.

 

As for the thermostat, that was just a tune up suggestion. You don't know what one is in there and it should be a 190 degree I believe. That's what these engines were designed to run at. If it is a colder one it could reduce gas mileage, slightly though.

[Quidam]

Johnson']Yes' date=' you can remove or hollow it out, as long as you don't have to pass emissions.

 

As for the thermostat,[/quote']

 

Hey thecryoflove,

 

Where is the cat that is bad? The one mid-car? I've gutted one, but I had to remove that mid-pipe it's connected to, then gut it. Save what comes out of it, it's worth $$ to a recycler. The front cat is a different story, the one in the Y pipe.

 

I recommend you don't mess with the thermostat until you understand what you're doing, and why. You can damage your engine if it's not done right.

 

Doug

[thecryoflove]

Hey thecryoflove,

 

Where is the cat that is bad? The one mid-car? I've gutted one, but I had to remove that mid-pipe it's connected to, then gut it. Save what comes out of it, it's worth $$ to a recycler. The front cat is a different story, the one in the Y pipe.

 

I recommend you don't mess with the thermostat until you understand what you're doing, and why. You can damage your engine if it's not done right.

 

Doug

 

What do you mean the front cat is a different story? As in,don't touch it... or you won't have to remove as much to get at it...

 

Also... does the O2 sensor affect this engine much? Mine is connected, but all the wires are cut! I'm assuming it's a bad sensor... but is it worth replacing?

[[HTi]Johnson]

What do you mean the front cat is a different story? As in,don't touch it... or you won't have to remove as much to get at it...

 

Also... does the O2 sensor affect this engine much? Mine is connected, but all the wires are cut! I'm assuming it's a bad sensor... but is it worth replacing?

 

The front cat is different because the exhaust Y's into it. It would be a little harder to replace...but doable.

 

A Bosch O2 sensor is like $15 at Napa. That's what I use. You could try to hook the wires back up and see what happens. The new O2 sensor may require slight change in wiring, not too hard.

 

As for the thermostat, it's straight forward. Drain coolant, take housing off, remove old gasket and thermostat, dry mating surfaces, put thermostat in, new gasket, and put the housing back on and torque to specified torque or by "tight enough feel".

[robm]

You need the O2 sensor. That explains why you are getting 16 mpg. Carb or SPFI?

[thecryoflove]

You need the O2 sensor. That explains why you are getting 16 mpg. Carb or SPFI?

 

Carb i believe

[GeneralDisorder]

Ok - lets get some things straight. A lot of what has been posted could be applicable or not depending on the information you give.

 

1. Do you have a Carb, or Fuel injection? Carbs will have a large, black, kidney bean shaped air cleaner housing on the top of the engine. Fuel injection will have a shop-vac looking hose on the top. Which one do you have?

 

2. We have already established that you have an O2 sensor. This is VERY important to either of the systems. I'll go into more detail when I know what you have.

 

3. This whole "bad cat" thing is speculation at best. They rarely fail, and when they do they usually aren't plugged. It's not common so it shouldn't be your first concern.

 

4. Unless the car is over or under heating, don't touch the thermostat. If it's running ok, that's something you should deal with later. Fix the pressing problems like your mileage issues. Deal with the thermostat when you have those fixed, or if it becomes a problem.

 

We NEED to know more about your vehicle. Pictures of your engine bay would be great. I have a feeling you have a feedback carburetor model by the terrible mileage, disconnected O2, and the model year/transmission type you have. But pics would be best if you are totally clueless from my description.

 

GD

[GeneralDisorder]

Double Post!

[thecryoflove]

I'm sure it's not a fuel injected... it's a carb. As for the catalytic converter... the mechanic told me I had one out, and from the sounds of it I think I do also. Sounds just like the Suzuki I had when the cat was bad on that... really rattley when I get up to about 3000 RPM.

[GeneralDisorder]

I'm sure it's not a fuel injected... it's a carb. As for the catalytic converter... the mechanic told me I had one out, and from the sounds of it I think I do also. Sounds just like the Suzuki I had when the cat was bad on that... really rattley when I get up to about 3000 RPM.

 

Irregarldless, it's probably still not "clogged". You can punch it out and drive on. Most models had only a single cat in the y-pipe anyway.

 

Unfortunately, you have a very difficult situation as I feared from your first post. You have a feedback, computer controlled carb. It's a very complex system - one that is difficult to work with based as much on it's complexity as it's age, and obscurity.

 

It does have some self-diagnostic abilities. There is a computer under your dash on the drivers side. Remove the kick panel and LEAVE IT OFF. The computer is primitive, and does not store codes. When the indicator light on the dash comes on (if it hasn't been disabled) the ECU will flash codes in a standard long-short format. This will help you diagnose the feedback system itself.

 

Most likely, a major cause of your poor mileage is BOTH the feedback system, and the carb itself. You are going to need to rebuild the carb as the top-plate gasket will be shot along with a lot of the rubber bits. It will need cleaning and reassembly to function properly again.

 

You will also need to learn a LOT about the feedback system to repair it and acheive it's rated 28 to 30 MPG. There's almost no one outside of myself and a few others on this board that know anything at all about them - Dealerships are no help, and generic auto shops will do more harm than good in all likelyhood.

 

Frankly your best bet is to yard that carb off and install a non-feedback Hitachi, or re-jet the feedback to the specifications of a non-feedback. Either choice is pretty cheap.

 

You could also install a Weber 32/36 DGV with an adaptor plate, or you could retrofit the later throttle body injection. Both are a bit more work - the TBI (SPFI in Subaru land) being the most work, but also the larges return - best mileage and best drivability.

 

GD

[thecryoflove]

Irregarldless, it's probably still not "clogged". You can punch it out and drive on. Most models had only a single cat in the y-pipe anyway.

 

Unfortunately, you have a very difficult situation as I feared from your first post. You have a feedback, computer controlled carb. It's a very complex system - one that is difficult to work with based as much on it's complexity as it's age, and obscurity.

 

It does have some self-diagnostic abilities. There is a computer under your dash on the drivers side. Remove the kick panel and LEAVE IT OFF. The computer is primitive, and does not store codes. When the indicator light on the dash comes on (if it hasn't been disabled) the ECU will flash codes in a standard long-short format. This will help you diagnose the feedback system itself.

 

Most likely, a major cause of your poor mileage is BOTH the feedback system, and the carb itself. You are going to need to rebuild the carb as the top-plate gasket will be shot along with a lot of the rubber bits. It will need cleaning and reassembly to function properly again.

 

You will also need to learn a LOT about the feedback system to repair it and acheive it's rated 28 to 30 MPG. There's almost no one outside of myself and a few others on this board that know anything at all about them - Dealerships are no help, and generic auto shops will do more harm than good in all likelyhood.

 

Frankly your best bet is to yard that carb off and install a non-feedback Hitachi, or re-jet the feedback to the specifications of a non-feedback. Either choice is pretty cheap.

 

You could also install a Weber 32/36 DGV with an adaptor plate, or you could retrofit the later throttle body injection. Both are a bit more work - the TBI (SPFI in Subaru land) being the most work, but also the larges return - best mileage and best drivability.

 

GD

 

What do you mean when you say "retrofit the later throttle body injection"?

[GeneralDisorder]

What do you mean when you say "retrofit the later throttle body injection"?

 

Here's my write up on it. It's geared toward EA81's - EA82's such as yours are easier, but a lot of the same stuff applies. There's a link at the bottom to a write up by Snowman that was specific to EA82's as well as a partial FSM showing the engine section and specific information on the SPFI system.

 

http://home.comcast.net/~trilinear/EA81_SPFI.html

 

GD

[Quidam]

What do you mean the front cat is a different story? As in,don't touch it... or you won't have to remove as much to get at it...

 

Also... does the O2 sensor affect this engine much? Mine is connected, but all the wires are cut! I'm assuming it's a bad sensor... but is it worth replacing?

 

The front cat...what I've done is cut out a section on top or bottom, remove the guts, weld back together. Your decision on whether to replace or gut is your call.

 

I've had that busted up mid cat thing. It's annoying. Rattles, noise, nope, not my car.

 

Well, you have some moral issues to sort out for you.

 

Cats, O2, Feedback carb...I bought a brand new FB Carb for $72.00. Wow. so, you've got choices.

[GeneralDisorder]

The carb is far from being the biggest problem with the feedback's. It's the same carb as the non-feedback's but with different jetting. In fact you can take a non-feedback, install the feedback jets and have the same thing - or the other way around. If you have a good feedback, block the metering ports off and install the non-feedback jets and air-bleeds - no more feedback and consistent, good mileage without the expensive, troublesome feedback systems. Why anyone would try to fix the feedback system is really beyond me - other than a poor understanding in general of the difference and how easy it is to switch it over.

 

I've rebuilt plenty of Hitachi's - they aren't terribly difficult once you have done a few. There's no problem with that.

 

The problem is the feedback system itself - which has nothing to do with the carb other than 3 vacuum lines where it connects to the metering ports on it. The metering ports are on all the Hitachi's and are connected variously through vacuum valves and thermo-vacuum valves on the non-feedback installations. If the system applies the incorrect amount of feedback air to the metering ports the mileage or power will be horrible. The best way to deal with it is to just remove the feedback system and jet the carb so it doesn't need it.

 

GD

[MTSuby]

The carb is far from being the biggest problem with the feedback's. It's the same carb as the non-feedback's but with different jetting. In fact you can take a non-feedback, install the feedback jets and have the same thing - or the other way around. If you have a good feedback, block the metering ports off and install the non-feedback jets and air-bleeds - no more feedback and consistent, good mileage without the expensive, troublesome feedback systems. Why anyone would try to fix the feedback system is really beyond me - other than a poor understanding in general of the difference and how easy it is to switch it over.

 

I've rebuilt plenty of Hitachi's - they aren't terribly difficult once you have done a few. There's no problem with that.

 

The problem is the feedback system itself - which has nothing to do with the carb other than 3 vacuum lines where it connects to the metering ports on it. The metering ports are on all the Hitachi's and are connected variously through vacuum valves and thermo-vacuum valves on the non-feedback installations. If the system applies the incorrect amount of feedback air to the metering ports the mileage or power will be horrible. The best way to deal with it is to just remove the feedback system and jet the carb so it doesn't need it.

 

GD

 

 

Ok, since I'm fairly certain that this is my problem with my lack of power and my 23mph highway..is there a write up on exactly that? Removing the feedback system and jetting it so it works without it? I'm guessing my carb could use a rebuild too, but I wouldn't mind starting with getting rid of the feedback to see where that gets me.

[thecryoflove]

Ok, since I'm fairly certain that this is my problem with my lack of power and my 23mph highway..is there a write up on exactly that? Removing the feedback system and jetting it so it works without it? I'm guessing my carb could use a rebuild too, but I wouldn't mind starting with getting rid of the feedback to see where that gets me.

 

That was my first reaction... where is a run-through of making the feedback system a non-feedback system?

 

EDIT: Oh yea... I also have adjusted the timing up to 12 from 8. The manual says 8, but there was a lag (accelerated and would hear about about .5 sec worth of whirring before it actually revved) and there is no lag at 12.... would this be a bad idea?

[MTSuby]

Yeah, it'd be great if it was a fairly uncomplicated proceedure...

As far as the timing, I'm not the best one to ask, but I think the best timing is the one that makes your car run it's best. It varies slightly in different elevations, etc....

[thecryoflove]

Here are some shots of the engine and such... just to preface, I know I have a lot missing out of this car since I compared it to my friends 86 GLSW ea82 he just bought.

If you're standing at the front of the car looking at the engine, this is at the upper right corner.

If you're standing at the front of the car looking at the engine, this is at the upper left corner... the tube I'm holding is cut just out of the picture, don't know where it's suppose to lead to

The dash... don't know why I have the automatic dash and a manual transmission... the tone of the dash is not the same as the rest of the interior either... so I'm thinking it was replaced, rather than the transmission being replaced.

Nothing is connected here....

Shot of the engine... I have a lot of missing parts =)

[Quidam]

 

EDIT: Oh yea... I also have adjusted the timing up to 12 from 8. The manual says 8, but there was a lag and there is no lag at 12.... would this be a bad idea?

 

No. They like it, as long as you don't get pinging. That's the sound of the piston ringing.

[GeneralDisorder]

That was my first reaction... where is a run-through of making the feedback system a non-feedback system?

 

No - you could write one though

 

I've owned several dozen EA series Subaru's - most of them were Hitachi carbed. Two were feedback - one EA81, and one EA82. For a time I managed to get the EA81 version working fairly well but ripped the whole thing out when I lifted the car and put on a Weber for off-road. That was also my first Subaru back in '98 and I wasn't knowledgable about the system nor had I rebuilt any Hitachi's yet.

 

The EA82 system I wound up with was just an accident - $100 beater that fell in my lap and became my DD. I figured the system would be similar to the EA81 system.... I was pretty wrong of course. The EA82 system is more "evolved" than the primitive EA81 system was. It's got more sensors, more complexity, and the EA82 version of the Hitachi it's hooked to is a demon-child carb. It's actually worse than the EA81 Hitachi in several ways - suffice to say that even though it's bigger and should flow better - I have yet to drive a stock carbed EA82 that was as fast as my stock carbed EA81 despite it having 10 less HP.

 

My advice is this:

 

1. Buy a used non-feedback EA82 Hitachi from the junk yard - make sure it's got the same transmission type as your's for jetting purposes. While you are there pull every single electric choke housing and find the one with the least spring hook wear. The hooks always wear completely through on the EA82 Hitachi and fall off leaving the choke non-functioning.

 

2. Buy a rebuild kit. www.thepartsbin.com has the one's I use but a local shop we have here gets them for me for about $20

 

3. Rebuild your carb using the jets from the junkyard carb, or rebuild the junkyard carb - your choice depending on the condition of each. Don't lose the accelerator pump check ball - it's really tiny, plastic, and will fall out when you tip the carb upside down.

 

4. Plug the metering ports with vacuum caps - just follow the hoses from the duty solenoids to the appropriate ports on the carb - it's the one's that aren't obviously something else like a fuel supply/return, vent line, or ported vacuum port ect.

 

EDIT: Oh yea... I also have adjusted the timing up to 12 from 8. The manual says 8, but there was a lag (accelerated and would hear about about .5 sec worth of whirring before it actually revved) and there is no lag at 12.... would this be a bad idea?

 

10 is about where I put all mine. 12 is a bit high - listen for ping. Also you'll want to readjust your idle speed and mixure if you change your base timing.

 

GD