Catalytic Help!

[Audiophobe]

My mechanic checked the engine light and the catalytic converter code came up. The light comes on intermittantly. It needs emmision test pronto and if the check engine light goes on it's an automatic fail.

I checked catalytic converter prices and I believe I need 2 and, wow!, they're expensive.

I checked a few aftermarket sites and they only have 4 cylinder.

Any suggestions?

 

2001 Subaru Outback wagon/ Eddie Bauer/ 6 cylinder/ about 208k miles. Has had tune up several months ago.

[nipper]

YOu dont need a cat. YOu need are front O2 sensors. Cats rarely go bad on these cars. Also there is no risk in replacing the semsors, since they should be replaced with a cat anyway.

 

 

If you do a search here, youll find maybe 2-3% of bad cats actually are the cat, while 98% are the sensors.

 

You have sensors up and down stream from the cats. The one behind it is fine, so its the front, i dont remeber if you have 1 or 2 on a 6. They should be OE.

 

nipper

[crazyhorse001]

Nip beat me to the punch!

[nipper]

Nip beat me to the punch!

 

er um, no. The #2 wil last much much longer then the front ones since it sees much cleaner exhaust. But on the plus side the down stream #2 can be generic. Just dont buy the cheapest one, as you get what you pay for.

 

nipper

[griffenrider]

Nipper's right, its almost always your front 02.

 

That said, while you're looking, its a good idea to test your rear 02 as well. Failure of that can also cause a cat error (P0420, I assume?). Much much less common than a front 02 sensor, more common than a cat actually failing, but it can happen. The rear 02 sensor is after the cat on the exhaust line, and the computer compares its voltage readout to the front sensor to determine cat failure. As far as I know, the rear 02 doesn't do anything else.

[davebugs]

If it's catalytic performance code I've had tremendous luck with Subaru's with Seafoam through a vacuum hose. You can search here about seafoam.

 

Main comment is it makes a HUGE cloud of white smoke. You probably don't want to do it in the neighborhood - someone may think something is on fire.

 

I've done this with 3 Subaru's and put another 1k on each before selling them and the catalytic converted performance code didn't come back up.

 

It's less than 10 bucks a can - I think I pay 5 or 6.

 

Dave

[Audiophobe]

Thanks for the replies.

So I'll tell my mechanic to replace the O2 sensors first, then try the Seafoam, correct?

I understand that you guys say that the cat rarely goes but, remember, the milage is well over 200k. Couldn't that wear the converter out?

[wondercow2]

Seafoam first! Not only is it cheaper (if it fixes things), the act of seafoaming could possibly gunk up perfectly good O2 sensors.

[Gloyale]

Thanks for the replies.

So I'll tell my mechanic to replace the O2 sensors first, then try the Seafoam, correct?

I understand that you guys say that the cat rarely goes but, remember, the milage is well over 200k. Couldn't that wear the converter out?

 

The catalytic has no moving parts. It can't *wear out*. Generally they either get clogged, or the catalyst material wil begin to break up, which will contribute to poor catalytic action. Both are fairly uncommon occurances.

 

Change you're O2s first.

[griffenrider]

IMHO its somewhat of a crapshoot between the seafoam and replacing the 02. As you say, your car has over 200k, and if you've never replaced the 02 sensors, I'd put money on that being the problem, and if they haven't gone, they're probably close. Seafoam first might push them over the edge and you'll have to replace them too. On the other hand, if it really is your cat and you run seafoam to clear junk out of it, you run the aforementioned risk of messing with your brand-spanking-new 02 sensors.

[Audiophobe]

The catalytic has no moving parts. It can't *wear out*. Generally they either get clogged, or the catalyst material wil begin to break up, which will contribute to poor catalytic action. Both are fairly uncommon occurances.

 

Change you're O2s first.

 

Thanks for all you're replies. VERY hlpful and hopefull will save me up to $1000 (I called the dealership and that was their estimate $750 plus labor. My guy told me the cat would cost him $550 or more.)

 

Well that's what I mean by "wear out". Like what I would mean when I say a filter wears out.

 

Anyway, I will tell them to change to O2 sensors. What do you think they'll cost from the dealer? Should I bother to order them online myself? There is no aftermarket cats for the H6 but sensors may be easier. If they're not too expensiv I'll have the shop order them.

[griffenrider]

What do you think they'll cost from the dealer? Should I bother to order them online myself?

 

Unless your shop has an incredible parts service (like Junction Subaru in VT) you can probably get the OE sensors for half what the dealer will charge you: 50 bucks vs. 100 from the dealer.

[Audiophobe]

Unless your shop has an incredible parts service (like Junction Subaru in VT) you can probably get the OE sensors for half what the dealer will charge you: 50 bucks vs. 100 from the dealer.

 

Will they be as hard to find as the cat (for a 6 cyl.)? NOONE had the cat except for the dealership. Or are they not as model specific as the cat?

[griffenrider]

Will they be as hard to find as the cat (for a 6 cyl.)? NOONE had the cat except for the dealership. Or are they not as model specific as the cat?

 

I don't believe that the 02 sensor itself is different for the H6 compared to the 4, there's just one more of them. Check various sites: subaruparts.com, 1stsubaruparts.com, and thepartsbin.com are my usual 1st places to look.

 

Far as I understand it (someone please correct if I'm wrong) there are really only two flavors of 02s you can get: the 3-wire versions (which is OE), and a 4-wire universal, the fourth wire on the universal is an additional sensor ground that you should tack to the chassis-ground, and should (thoeretically anyway) actually get you a quieter signal than the OE version. Quieter signal lets the ECU give better directions to the fuel injector and you should get an extra half-a-mile or so a gallon. O2 sensor isn't as specific as, for example, a thermostat or PCV that you really need the OE part for.

[Audiophobe]

I don't believe that the 02 sensor itself is different for the H6 compared to the 4, there's just one more of them. Check various sites: subaruparts.com, 1stsubaruparts.com, and thepartsbin.com are my usual 1st places to look.

 

Far as I understand it (someone please correct if I'm wrong) there are really only two flavors of 02s you can get: the 3-wire versions (which is OE), and a 4-wire universal, the fourth wire on the universal is an additional sensor ground that you should tack to the chassis-ground, and should (thoeretically anyway) actually get you a quieter signal than the OE version. Quieter signal lets the ECU give better directions to the fuel injector and you should get an extra half-a-mile or so a gallon. O2 sensor isn't as specific as, for example, a thermostat or PCV that you really need the OE part for.

 

I called subaruparts.com :$165 plus each!

The parts bin:

http://www.thepartsbin.com/catalog/?N=9167&Nr=OR(AND(make:Subaru,model:Outback,year:2001),AND(universal:1))&Vi=1719+11745+4294967264&y=2001&mk=Subaru&md=Outback

 

What a difference!

But, now I need yor help picking one.

As you can see there are sveral to choose from fro over $20 to over $120.

How do I choose?

[griffenrider]

I called subaruparts.com :$165 plus each!

The parts bin:

http://www.thepartsbin.com/catalog/?N=9167&Nr=OR(AND(make:Subaru,model:Outback,year:2001),AND(universal:1))&Vi=1719+11745+4294967264&y=2001&mk=Subaru&md=Outback

 

What a difference!

But, now I need yor help picking one.

As you can see there are sveral to choose from fro over $20 to over $120.

How do I choose?

 

SKUs:

W0133-1607858 ~100 bucks, already has the required connector, OE replacement 3-wire

USOS-4000 ~45 bucks, 4-wire universal and needs the connector - re-use the old one if you wish, just clean it first, and ground that extra wire

USOS-3000 ~45 bucks, 3-wire, also needs the connector, just hook it up exactly like the one you remove

 

As you noticed, the descriptions are a wee bit sub-par, in that they don't really tell you anything at all. I believe The 100 dollar version will be a drop-in replacement. Likewise for the two 45 dollar ones, except that you'll need a scant amount of electrical wiring skills to move the connector over. There are probably others on the site that'll work, but without being able to see the part and see its specs, I can't really help you out more, try calling their help or your mechanic.

[idosubaru]

agreed - this is not likely to be your cat. they rarely fail and failure rates decrease for good running, properly maintained vehicles that only serve as daily drivers (no crazy usage, off roading, etc).

 

if you ever need a cat there are a few cheaper options. going the dealership route is ridiculous on all counts.

 

find someone parting out a car and buy the cat from them. then have a local shop or guy bolt it or weld it in place for you.

 

find a performance shop and have them install an aftermarket converter for you. it'll cost them $30 in materials and take them no time at all. add labor and converter cost (much cheaper than dealer). there's no need for a bolt on part here, but if removal concerns you they can always include flanges for a few extra dollars. i've welded flanges on exhaust before myself and i suck at welding and have an el-cheapo welder.

 

i stopped by a tiny shop in Atlanta GA wanting someone to install one for me...$35 and an hour waiting and it was done. i don't think $35 is normal, but it's not that hard to find someone willing to do the work for a reasonable amount.

[Audiophobe]

Since the garage will be doing the work I think the drop in

 

(W0133-1607858 ~100 bucks, already has the required connector, OE replacement 3-wire)

 

will be the way to go. They may get wierded out by electrical.

 

I think that's what I'll do.

Thanks all!

I'll let you know how it works out.

Anything else I should know before I order these and bring it to my shop?

[griffenrider]

Since the garage will be doing the work I think the drop in

 

(W0133-1607858 ~100 bucks, already has the required connector, OE replacement 3-wire)

 

will be the way to go. They may get wierded out by electrical.

 

I think that's what I'll do.

Thanks all!

I'll let you know how it works out.

Anything else I should know before I order these and bring it to my shop?

 

Yeah, make sure its the right connector first.

 

I think it is the right one based on the picture, but I can't actually find any specs on the parts from thepartsbin - they're a discount place, not a full service shop. Buyerbecareful sort of place. They're perfectly friendly and helpful, but they aren't a subaru shop, and they don't know as much as one.

[idosubaru]

will be the way to go. They may get wierded out by electrical.

they'll be perfectly familiar with universal O2 sensors, all mechanics are. but you'd be doing the right thing by doing what you said and getting the direct fit style. otherwise you're trying to save money but annoying them by requiring them to do more work. not that it's much but...from a shop standpoint they'd much rather just drop one in for you.

[Gloyale]

find someone parting out a car and buy the cat from them. then have a local shop or guy bolt it or weld it in place for you.

 

 

Good luck with that.

 

It is illegal to sell a used cat. Also Illegal to install one, even if it fell off the same vehichle.

 

Some places will do it, but most won't.