CCR Reputation?

[Rhinoculips]

Ok, I am looking at buying a rebuilt and fully complete EJ22 from Colorado Component Rebuilders (CCR) for installation into my VW Westfalia camper. I have seen nothing but good things about CCR. Even with the good reports here, I am hesitant to buy from them. Why you ask? A guy emailed me after seeing my post on SubaruVanagon Yahoo Group. What he said got me thinking twice about a CCR Engine. He asked me not to post his email on any forum. I don't know why.

 

The gist of the engine he got from them,

 

1) a missing bolt for the A/C

2) a missing bolt for the oil pump and another partially backed out

3) a faulty power steering pump (took a week or more for CCR to say it was a warranty issue)

4)loose breather plate that ended up shooting oil all over the place.

5) shipped engine (which came out of an automatic according to the ECU and MAFS numbers they provided) with a manual intake manifold on an automatic engine. Wiring harness was built for automatic so that would not properly interface with the ICV on the manifold. Another 2 weeks waiting for parts and decision if it was warranty work.

 

I don't know how truthful this fellow is. Maybe he is a disgruntled ex-employee of CCR. He sure has me thinking twice about a CCR engine.

 

I haven't seen anything bad said about them on this forum, which is good. What I want to know is, has anyone else had a problem with CCR? Emily, feel free to chime in. I wouldn't mind hearing your input as well.

 

Many thanks.

[Turbone]

I bought a EA82T block from them recently. Altho it didnt have any accessories like a long block would, it was all there and complete.

[jon38iowa]

You also might consider looking at the BBB's web site in their area.

[crazyhorse001]

I've read good & bad about CCR.

Most of the bad stems from what are truly nit-picking.

The good is always glowing praise.

 

If I were in the market for a Subie motor, and had the budget for it, I'd buy one from them in a heartbeat.

[Bucky92]

CCR FTW!! I am planning on saving the money and when its time for my coupe to get a new power plant..that is the only company I would even consider

[hankosolder2]

Ok, I am looking at buying a rebuilt and fully complete EJ22 from Colorado Component Rebuilders (CCR) for installation into my VW Westfalia camper. I have seen nothing but good things about CCR. Even with the good reports here, I am hesitant to buy from them. Why you ask? A guy emailed me after seeing my post on SubaruVanagon Yahoo Group. What he said got me thinking twice about a CCR Engine. He asked me not to post his email on any forum. I don't know why.

 

The gist of the engine he got from them,

 

1) a missing bolt for the A/C

2) a missing bolt for the oil pump and another partially backed out

3) a faulty power steering pump (took a week or more for CCR to say it was a warranty issue)

4)loose breather plate that ended up shooting oil all over the place.

5) shipped engine (which came out of an automatic according to the ECU and MAFS numbers they provided) with a manual intake manifold on an automatic engine. Wiring harness was built for automatic so that would not properly interface with the ICV on the manifold. Another 2 weeks waiting for parts and decision if it was warranty work.

 

I don't know how truthful this fellow is. Maybe he is a disgruntled ex-employee of CCR. He sure has me thinking twice about a CCR engine.

 

I haven't seen anything bad said about them on this forum, which is good. What I want to know is, has anyone else had a problem with CCR? Emily, feel free to chime in. I wouldn't mind hearing your input as well.

 

Many thanks.

 

Just out of curiosity, why would a power steering pump failure be CCRs responsibility? (i.e., it's not part of the engine.)

 

I remember reading one report here where someone said a CCR engine arrived sans the rear main seal, but that's been about it.

 

I suppose the most overriding concern is the quality of the INTERNAL engine work (machining, clearances, cleanliness.) External parts which are mismatched or improperly assembled aren't good, but given some of the stories I've heard about rebuilds from non CCR sources suffering dramatic falures (throwing rods, etc.) this list of complaints about CCR sounds minor.

 

I wouldn't make a decision based on some hearsay evidence provided by someone who wishes to remain anonymous and has had a "sample of one" experience with a generally well regarded company.

 

my 2c.

 

Nathan

[idosubaru]

they are the only engine rebuilders i'd buy a new subaru engine from.

 

that being said, there's a lot of eyebrow raising details and comments in that guys emails that sounds suspicious.

 

power steering and A/C? does he go to them for dentist appointments too? i'd buy an engine from them and source the rest elsewhere. that's nice of them to even bother trying to help the guy...people like him make companies not do things like that in the future.

 

missing bolt for the oil pump - if it did happen (i bet it didn't) i'm sure it's not SOP for them to skip one, so that's not an issue.

 

the manual/automatic engine diatribe sounds bogus. the manual and automatic intakes are interchangeable...with exception to EGR differences in 1995 model year only..and even then they are actually interchangeable if you're not a goober (i just did it). manual intake on an auto engine with an auto harness? is this a comic strip or is this guy for real?

 

sounds more like someone not up to an engine swap trying to blame someone else.

[Rhinoculips]

Just out of curiosity, why would a power steering pump failure be CCRs responsibility? (i.e., it's not part of the engine.)

 

It was a complete EJ22 supplied for the soul purpose of converting a VW Vanagon. Thus, everything mounted on the block is included.

 

I know this guy seemed out of line of everything else I have heard about CCR. It is most likely I will be going for one of their EJ22 just by there glowing reputation on this forum. There is a used EJ25 I am looking at and would love to have the extra power of, but bulletproof longevity will probably win over extra power.

 

I had already checked the BBB site, but there is zilch on them.

 

It appears Emily is reading this as I type...Hi! Thanks for the email yesterday. Will most likely give you a call on Monday to chat a little more on your services!

 

Whats the expected life span of a quality rebuilt EJ22?

 

Thanks for the input everyone!

[CAS83Brumby]

You can say what you want to about the person with the CCR complaints and you will probably say some about me. First CCR EA-81 motor no oil pressure wrong valves, old pistons, bad valve seals, missing seal for oil pickup.

Second EA-81 after sending other back -NO OIL PRESSURE- problems are internal, ran other oil pump, oil sending unit, gauge pack, and manual gauge, so it is not on my side. Only bought because of the 3year 36,000 mile warrenty. Just want my money and my core back, they want to send me another motor Do what you want to do. Still working on my bad purchase. They have worked with me so far, just waiting to see the final outcome.

[bheinen74]

I would buy engines from them, based on my visit to there shop when I was living in Denver. They are an organized shop, everything is lined up on the shelves in order, etc. I saw a few of the engines they were tearing down/assembling, and I was amazed at the cleanliness of the operation. I was not visting the place for an engine, but did get a few parts off a car MMonson sent there, and also talked with the people there. From the looks of it, they definitely do engines correctly. Heck, even the subaru dealers in Denver get there engine work done there. The people they do employee are experts at subaru engines, period, and they know transmission assemblies well too.

[ccrinc]

Ok, I am looking at buying a rebuilt and fully complete EJ22 from Colorado Component Rebuilders (CCR) for installation into my VW Westfalia camper. I have seen nothing but good things about CCR. Even with the good reports here, I am hesitant to buy from them. Why you ask? A guy emailed me after seeing my post on SubaruVanagon Yahoo Group. What he said got me thinking twice about a CCR Engine. He asked me not to post his email on any forum. I don't know why.

 

The gist of the engine he got from them,

 

1) a missing bolt for the A/C

2) a missing bolt for the oil pump and another partially backed out

3) a faulty power steering pump (took a week or more for CCR to say it was a warranty issue)

4)loose breather plate that ended up shooting oil all over the place.

5) shipped engine (which came out of an automatic according to the ECU and MAFS numbers they provided) with a manual intake manifold on an automatic engine. Wiring harness was built for automatic so that would not properly interface with the ICV on the manifold. Another 2 weeks waiting for parts and decision if it was warranty work.

 

I don't know how truthful this fellow is. Maybe he is a disgruntled ex-employee of CCR. He sure has me thinking twice about a CCR engine.

 

I haven't seen anything bad said about them on this forum, which is good. What I want to know is, has anyone else had a problem with CCR? Emily, feel free to chime in. I wouldn't mind hearing your input as well.

 

Many thanks.

 

Actually, I think I will reply to this and try to clear up a few things. (And I know exactly who the person is who emailed you. No further comment there.)

 

1) What needs to be made clear, and possibly more so in conversation with potential customers like yourself, is that while the engine is completely rebuilt, and many of the associated parts like the alternator for instance are either new or remanufactured, not EVERY piece is. The power steering pump is a good used one which we pull from a working car. To have every part of this entire assembly new or rebuilt would make the cost and price prohibitively expensive. (The issue was that it leaked: every Subaru PS pump leaks eventually: it's the nature of the beast.)

 

2) As for the bolts, and the mismatched parts: while we do try very hard to make sure this kind of thing doesn't happen, sometimes it does. IIRC, that was the first "complete" assembly done by an employee in training, and the double checking either didn't get done or wasn't noticed. Forgive me, but we're human and Rick was out recovering from double hernia surgery at the time. And when we get extremely busy and have multiple orders for Vanagon conversions and aircraft engines as we did at that time, it is possible for items to get put with the wrong order.

 

3) The new style of breather plates are horrible! SOA replaced the trusty cast aluminum ones with a thinner alloy model. We have discovered (the hard way) that Ultra Grey RTV does not adhere to these new ones. SOA has also had to change what they usually use, but the dealer parts dept. didn't tell us that. We aren't really satisfied with what the dealer uses either, so we're looking into an aircraft sealant instead.

 

4) There is no such thing as an automatic or manual engine in a '90-94 Legacy. The engine longblocks and intake manifolds are identical. It is the electronic stuff that bolts to them that makes the difference.

 

When a shop installs a conversion engine (as in this case) that an individual orders, communication between all parties is very important if a problem arises. We never had any communication with the shop. The bolt issues may or may not be factual. But, we took care of it anyway, because we would rather err on the side of caution or goodwill in almost any case.

 

I feel confident that nobody knows Subaru engines better than we do. Each engine that goes out has our name and reputation on it and is built with that in mind. We are not a big company, and we like it that way. But we take care of our customers and that, in the end, is what we believe makes even a small company a great one.

 

Gary is right about sourcing all the items yourself. It's a huge pain, but it is considerably less expensive.

 

(Phew! I think that more like .99 worth!

 

Emily

http://www.ccrengines.com

[Fishums]

I've purchased a car about a year ago with a CCR rebuild in it, it's been running strong for the last 28K miles with 4 trips to and from Florida, Also one trip to Alabama. Emily does nice work!

[subsince77]

Mine seems perfect so far, only about 5000 miles, and they are sure great to deal with.

 

Just 1 cent worth.

[Rhinoculips]

Thanks Emily!

 

I am glad you replied. I wanted an unbiased reply from members of this forum as well as your side of the story and I got both. When getting ready to invest a large chunk of money into an engine and then receive an email like the one I got from this guy, honestly, I started to look elsewhere. Then I found this forum and your reputation here made me start to think twice about this fellows remarks. As my dad would say "He probably would complain if he was hung with a new rope" From the few negative remarks, all have stated that you have been working with them to help solve the problem. This is what I like to hear. Being a small business owner, I know the value of good customer service and how it builds ones reputation. I am confident that we are on the same level here.

 

My decision is still up in the air. There are only two choices I am considering and your rebuilt EJ22 is one of them.

 

Thanks again for your time Emily!

 

ps - is CCR a member of the SubaruVanagon Yahoo group???

[The Dude]

You can say what you want to about the person with the CCR complaints and you will probably say some about me. First CCR EA-81 motor no oil pressure wrong valves, old pistons, bad valve seals, missing seal for oil pickup.

Second EA-81 after sending other back -NO OIL PRESSURE- problems are internal, ran other oil pump, oil sending unit, gauge pack, and manual gauge, so it is not on my side. Only bought because of the 3year 36,000 mile warrenty. Just want my money and my core back, they want to send me another motor Do what you want to do. Still working on my bad purchase. They have worked with me so far, just waiting to see the final outcome.

 

I have nothing bad to say about you, this board is all about open discussion. But I do have a few questions.

How do you know that the first engine had the wrong valves, bad valve seals, and a missing oil pickup seal? Did you open up the engine? CCR specifies new piston rings, not new pistons. So, if you got new rings, you got what you where promised.

How did CCR handle the shipping and installation expenses? Did CCR pick up the shipping for the return of the bad engines? Did CCR pay for any of the install/de-install labor charges on the defective engines?

 

Based on my personal experience and observations, too often, the used and rebuilt engine industry can be a pretty scummy business. If the buyer gets a "good" used or rebuilt engine, fine, he's a lucky winner. But too often, if he gets a "bad" engine well, that's just too bad. Sure, the supplier will send another engine under warranty. But the customer is responsible for all shipping expenses and all the install/de-install labor charges. Too often, after the customer has paid for the shipping and install/de-install on a couple of bad "replacement" engines he wises up. He realizes that most likely he's never going to get a good engine. He's just going to pay shipping and install/de-install charges on a series of bad replacement engine until the "warranty" expires . If the used engine seller or engine rebuilder is in the same state as the buyer, then the buyer has at least got a shot in small claims court. If the seller or rebuilder is out of state, too often he can kiss all that money goodbye.

 

That's why a known honest engine rebuilder or used engine seller is such a valuable resource. That's why it's worth a paying extra for a rebuilt or used engine from a provider that you know will willingly step up to the plate if things go bad.

My rebuilt engine was NOT from CCR, and the whole experience was an absolute nightmare. Fortunately, I got the engine from an in-state rebuilder and I was able to file in small claims court.

[CAS83Brumby]

I dont think that the shop person was supposed to tell me and my wife that they put the wrong parts in and missed some, but they did. I brought up the old pistons because the next motor came with new ones. Also, like I said they have been working with me, they paid for the shipping, but all of the labor I have had to suck up, along with the extra labor of checking and re-checking things that they ask me to check, and to rent the manual gauge from a shop because I couldn't find one with metric threads. The company, from what I heard before I bought, builds great motors, and they have good customer service so far, but we will see about the final outcome. I don't know what the problem with these motors are, and they also don't know, but two motors with the same internal problems is really getting on my nervs. I have over 8500 dollars into my 83 brat and I can't even drive it. It has been down for two months. All that I am saying is if I knew that I was going to have these problems I would have built it myself. I only responded because a fellow member was asking for some help, If I wouldn't of saw the post I wouldn't have written anything. And if anybody wants to ask, I am now on my 13th subaru, and yes I do know my fare share about subarus. I only bought from CCR because of the good rep. and the warrenty.

[The Dude]

I dont think that the shop person was supposed to tell me and my wife that they put the wrong parts in and missed some, but they did. I brought up the old pistons because the next motor came with new ones. Also, like I said they have been working with me, they paid for the shipping, but all of the labor I have had to suck up, along with the extra labor of checking and re-checking things that they ask me to check, and to rent the manual gauge from a shop because I couldn't find one with metric threads.

 

See, this is my problem with rebuilts and used motors. CCR allegedly shipped two defective engines and YOU'RE out the money for install/de-install. A shop will generally charge at least $500 to install an engine. So, with two allegedly bum engines from a rebuilder, a buyer could be out an easy grand. It's not right. The rebuilder say's, "gee, we're REALLY sorry", and buyer is out at least $1,000. Guess what end of that transaction I would want to be on.

As far as additional labor to "check" things with the engine, I think CCR should pick that up. The "checking" was done for the benefit of the rebuilder, not you. It should be covered by the warranty. I'm not at all impressed.

More and more, I'm thinking a good engine from a wreck is the way to go. You're probably dealing with wrecker in-state. It's the most expensive, but maybe having a Subaru dealer install a genuine Subaru rebuilt engine isn't such a bad deal IF the dealer will cover the re-install if the engine fails under warranty.

[chef_tim]

I've bought three CCR motors. First was an EA82T that out lasted the car it was installed in and I ended up reselling it. The second was an EA81 for my hatch. It came with an immediate tick/knock. CCR was great in trying to resolve the problem, everything from sending parts to step by step instructions. The final out come was a replacement motor that has preformed perfectly. Motor three was an EJ25 for our Outback Wagon, 40,000 miles and not a peep. I say good people, good product and they stand behind it.

 

Tim

[BestCar/OnlyCar]

I really like the people at CCR. Rick is nice, and Jason is nice. They have been very kind to me. I don't know a whole lot about cars, but they are always willing to answer my questions and help me learn more.  I had them re-manufacture an E82 for my 1988 Subaru. Ever since I had the engine put in (and they did the swap labor as well, I figured it was good to work with one set of people instead of the confusion of two garages since I am near-ish them anyway) it has had this tick/knock intermittently.  Sometimes loud, and sometimes quiet. I did notice that one of the bolts on the valve cover gasket had the wrong seal and was leaking oil. Because I happened to have a new one that was right I swapped it out. I don't know if this was contributing to the sound. In any case though this is frustrating they have been very gracious about trying to resolve the problem. Initially I went in and they looked at the head and could not see the problem. Because it only does it the first few miles when it is cold it is not making the noise when arrive at the shop. Because it is my daily driver it took a while before I could leave it with them. They were patient and gracious working with my schedule and it is now at the shop....of course it doesn't want to make the damn noise for them. I do not know if this is because I changed out that bolt seal, or if it is because I live in the mountains where it is colder and a different climate than the shop is (it does it much more pronounced in cold weather). Or perhaps it is just to make my life more difficult. So far at the shop it only made a tiny and very fast resolving tick. *sigh*. I don't know. I am frustrated, but at the same time, they have never even heard the noise, (I did tape it for them), but they believe me, and are trying to resolve the problem. 

[lmdew]

All of my interactions with CCR have been very positive.  Great shop, nice folks!

 

That being said, I would put a used engine in, or upgrade to a 2.5.

 

Talk to Joel at:

http://www.greensyncro.com/Home_Page.php

 

Great guy, Great shop.

 

Larry

[BestCar/OnlyCar]

In hindsight I also would go with a used engine or an upgrade to a 2.5. For one thing I had a perfectly good engine in it, and if it is going to make this valve sounding ticking with all the work then why spend all the money? Also, it just makes sense to get the newer model, more horses etc.