replace front transmission pump in 96 OBW

[jelly man]

I just replaced my EJ25 in my 96 OBW. I had problems pulling the engine and transmission together the last little bit. I heard a few pops. When the two were bolted up I couldn't turn the engine to line up the converter and flex plate bolt holes. I pulled the engine tried reseating the converter (kind of difficult) and put the engine in again. The engine runs but the transmission won't engage when in shifted into gear. I did a search and found out I just borked my transmission pump. Has anyone replaced one? Does it wipe out the transmission case or is it possible and/or practical to replace the just the pump? I'd like to pull the engine and replace the pump with the tranny in if possible. I did a search on this and couldn't find anyone who had replaced one. Any advice, comments especially from someone who has done this would be much appreciated before I start again.

[davebugs]

I'm curious to see any answers. Just pulled a 2.2 this morning and torque converter basically came with the engine. I pried it off the engine (in order to get the engine out of the car) and am trying to reseat it. I know there is an issue with the last 1/4 inch and dome photo's here somewhere showing that I think you should only see about 1/2 the width of the tabs that the flexplate bolts go into.

 

I've got mine most of the way on but by looking at the starter bendix I could still use that last 1/4 inch.

 

If I screw it up and can't get that last 1/4 inch I may be in the same boat as you. I had forgotten what a PITA automatics were.

 

Dave

[idosubaru]

it's been done, try searching on here and the internet, i know i've seen threads of people that have done. i think one even had pictures?

 

i have a transmission and will sell you the oil pump for $100 if you want it. i'd sell it for $25 but i don't look forward to the time to pull it.

 

dave -just make sure that bolting the engine doesn't "push" the torque converter in the rest of the way. actually the torque converter will go in "too far" into the transmission so to speak...and then the flexplate/torque converter bolts will pull it out of the transmission.

 

the engine will seat fully against the transmission bellhousing without touching the torque converter at all. that's when you know it's right.

[davebugs]

GG - I refound this excellent link on torque converter seating

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=81925&highlight=torque+converter

 

I'm about in pic #2 - actually inbetween pic #2 and 3 I'd say. I see to try spinning it a bit (in my case counter clockwise first) and seeing if it seats a little more.

 

The tranny seems to have clutch pack issues anyways but I was gonna perhaps try and fix that in the car rather than replacing the tranny. Didn't think I could pull the engine and tranny at the same time - too long and off center weight. Trannies are relatively cheap I've just never changed one on a Subaru. I would just rather not ruin this one. I'll try and get the TC in the last little bit tomorrow. I'll still be paying attention to this thread incase I damage the pump on this install or the inevitable next install.

 

Dave

[idosubaru]

i try gently pulling it out a hair, then pushing in, pull out (tiny bit), turn a tiny amount, push in, pull out, turn, push in....keep repeating until it goes in.

 

try and make a mark, measurement or mental of note of how it sits when it's NOT seated so you know for sure when it goes in. even the last one i did took quite awhile and i've done a bunch before.

[Gloyale]

To replace the pump, You'd have to remove the transfer extension as well as the diff carrier/bell. The reason being that you have to unbolt the transfer gear from the end of the pinion shaft, in order to slide the pinion shaft out to remove the pump.

 

Waaay easier with the trans removed. It is also possible that the pinion shaft may need to be fitted with proper adjusting shims with the new pump body, or else you're diff may suffer.

 

Probably more cost effective and less risky to get a used trans. Unless you enjoy challenges.

[jelly man]

I've called around for a used tranny. I'm getting that it has to be from a 96 2.5 awd outback only. The difference between the u-pull yards with a 98 and the regular yards with the 96's is $550. Why won't other years fit? Will swapping the tcu allow for other years to fit?

[idosubaru]

other years will work just fine (i and others have done it). but....it is very confusing. subaru made things very confusing in some areas and this is one of them. thye changed part numbers like underwear.

 

the main thing you need to make sure the final drive ratio is the same. actually you can even change your final drive ratio so long as you swap the rear diff to match. otherwise this is going to be a plug and play item for you.

 

there are two automatic final drive ratios you'll run across 4.11 and 4.44, im not sure which yours will be but someone will know.

 

you'll want a 1995-1998 transmission. make sure the 1998 does not have a screw on external filter, as that would indicate the next generation transmission and will incur some differences.

 

i don't believe the 4.44 gearing was offered in 1995, so if yours ends up being a 4.44 final drive then you might be stuck with 96-98 transmissions.

 

or, you could just swap a 1995 in and change the rear diff too so it matches.

 

i just put a 95 (from an EJ22) into a 96 (originally EJ25) into a 4WD auto Legacy. ran fine, direct bolt in swap.

[jelly man]

I just found a 96 EJ22 legacy tranny at pick n pull. How do I find the drive ratio? My outback rear end doesn't have a label on it. A local rebuilder also mentions thay if I put a different year in that the tranny will pick up on it and set trouble codes to trip the check transmission light so it won't pass emissions. Also after the code gets reported a few times the tranny will go into failsafe mode and will wear out quickly. Any one else hear this?

[idosubaru]

A local rebuilder also mentions thay if I put a different year in that the tranny will pick up on it and set trouble codes to trip the check transmission light so it won't pass emissions. Also after the code gets reported a few times the tranny will go into failsafe mode and will wear out quickly. Any one else hear this?

what a bunch of #*!&*!$$. what an idiot. i can't STAND when people just flat out lie about something they have no clue about. it's one thing to guess based on good experience but to just make MANURE up to confuse you is crap. nothing that guy said is even remotely valid. different year my rump roast....and failsafe mode?? wow that's right up there with martians dude. wish i would have been there when he said that, stupid idiot. keep him for your 350 or lawn mower engine needs, but tune him out for his subaru advice.

 

end rant...sorry...//

 

that 96 transmission will work beautifully in your car. my only concern is you said it's an EJ20 vehicle??? we didn't get EJ20 vehicles in the US, can you clarify that?

 

any normal US EJ 1996 transmission is going to work fine in your car. turn the shaft of the rear diff and count rotations, it's very simple. turn wheel, count the rotations of the driveshaft....you can mark the driveshaft and tire with a marker or chalk. a 41 to 10 ratio is 4.11 and a 44 to 10 ratio is a 4.44, done. do it on your car first, should be able to do it with the wheels/axles all still attached. use the wheel to rotate the diff.

 

do me one favor - count your bell housing bolts and make sure you have 4 and don't have an external filter. subaru went with some transmission changes in 1999 that included an external filter and 8 bellhousing bolts...want to make sure you don't have one of those newer trans, there may be some in 1998 as well?

 

if you bellhousing bolts are the same as the trans you're looking at then the transmissions are IDENTICAL (i dont' care what some bozo rebuilder filled you with). the only difference will be the final drive ratio and that's very easy to determine or work around if you'd like.

[jelly man]

My mistake - it's an EJ22.

[idosubaru]

My mistake - it's an EJ22.

awesome, i was hoping that was just a typo. it will work beautifully in yours. i installed a 1995 EJ22 trans in my EJ25 and it works fine.

 

again....the only concern is the final drive ratio matching your existing rear diff. you have two options - counting it to see if it matches or getting the EJ22 rear diff and swapping that as well.

 

my guess is that there's a good chance they're a different ratio though....but you'll just have to check.

 

sorry - ignore my comments about bellhousing bolts - i thought you had a 1998 OBW, but i see now that it's a 1996 so you're no where near the 1999 year of interest.

[Gloyale]

A local rebuilder also mentions thay if I put a different year in that the tranny will pick up on it and set trouble codes to trip the check transmission light so it won't pass emissions. Also after the code gets reported a few times the tranny will go into failsafe mode and will wear out quickly. Any one else hear this?

 

Load of crap.

 

I have a 93 legacy 4EAT in my 89 GL Turbo, running off the GL TCU. No codes. Besides, I don't think a blinking trans code would make you fail engine emmissions. There is no standardized trans code format for manufactures, so how would they regulate it??? I suppose they could test the transmissions tailpipe:lol:

 

But It's BS anyhow. From 88-98 definately, Any 4eat TCU will run any 4eat in any car. Final drive ratio is the only thing to make sure matches.

[idosubaru]

I suppose they could test the transmissions tailpipe:lol:

sweet!!! yeah and the dipstick pressure test! glad someone else called BS on that nonsense.

[jelly man]

The mechanic said it was only from 96 on that it matters - but I wouldn't know about it anyway. I'm not into transmissions.

[johnceggleston]

let's review....

 

if your car is a 96 2.5L outback the trans part number will be TZ102Z2ABA . you can use any auto trans from a 2.5L auto car, wagon or sedan, 96 - 98 and a few early 99s. this includes leg GTs, leg LSi's and Outbacks. the part number for your matching trans will start with TZ102Z2.....and end with aca or aba or cba or caa..... if you match the beginning of the part number, not only will it work, the final drive will be the EXACT same.

 

you can use any auto trans from a 2.2L 95 - 98 leg whose part number doesn't have the second 2 if you also swap in the matching rear differential.

 

the best choice will be decided by how much does it cost, how much to ship, if any, and how much to install. but having outback, GT and LSi to choose from increases the the supply. i would probably go with the "best mileage for the money".

[Gloyale]

The mechanic said it was only from 96 on that it matters - but I wouldn't know about it anyway. I'm not into transmissions.

 

That's when the 2.5 was introduced. And as Gary said, the 2.5 equipped cars had the matching ratio. So you're mechnic is going by his interchange book which provides *excact* fit interchange.

 

What we insiders know, is that for Subaru's 4EAT, it's all interchangeable. Subtle differences in shift points and such were adjusted for each combination of Engine and Vehichle. These are determined by the TCU. I.E. an Impreza sedan w/EJ18 and 3.9 gearing will have different shift points than an Outback wagon w/EJ25 and 4.11 gears. But in the real world, any 4eat/TCU combo will work and drive fine.

[jelly man]

I got a tranny from a 96 EJ22 legacy sedan TZ102ZABAA-CL to replace the original 96 EJ25 outback tranny TZ102Z2ABA-CH. I got it in ready to bolt the torque converter and flex plate together and found the holes can't line up. The torque converter on the EJ22 is smaller and the holes are in to close to the center. I see two options. Use the EJ25 converter/plate combo or the EJ22 one. Will the EJ25 converter work in the tranny built for the EJ22? Is it a stronger or better built than the EJ22 convertor? Will the plate from the EJ22 bolt on the EJ25 engine or is the bolt pattern or clearance different?

[idosubaru]

you'll have to use an EJ22 flexplate or use the EJ25 torque converter.

 

you should be able to use the EJ25 torque converter, but i don't know if the shaft of that tube that attaches to it got damaged with the oil pump as well?

 

be mindful of that goofy ring seal around the shaft that attached to the torque converter, make sure that stays in place and isn't damaged in anyway.

[jelly man]

I decided to go ahead and use the original converter. I used a telescoping magnet extended through the shaft attached to the converter through to the bottom of the converter to remove any metal. I swirled and tilted the converter around a lot and didn't remove any metal from the magnet. I can't see any metal in the oil that I poured of the converter either. Hopefully I'll be ok. On the shaft that attaches to the converter there is a black plastic split ring near the end. Is this the seal you are talking about? Other the split in it which I assume is there to facilitate installation/removal the ring looks fine.

[idosubaru]

yes that's the ring seal i'm referring too. glad it's still there, sounds like you're good to go!