HHO Conversion on my Legacy

[SuperNova]

HHO rig i built only draws 8 amps.

[mountaingoatgruff]

in theory, an hho producing electrolyser with one cell uses about 10% of the current you put in to create hho, and the remaining current goes to heating the plates (which in turn creates water vapor and introduces that into your intake, so be careful). to increase the efficiency of the electrolyser, you add more cells. cells can be more plates in the same container so long as your electrolyte doesn't contact between cells.

 

you have to break in the plates by using distilled water in the cell and leave it on until a white coating forms on the plates, then rinse (not wash) the chamber and replace the electrolyte with distilled water and 25-30% potassium hydroxide (KOH, available in pellet form) by vol.

 

the electrolyte is consumed in the process so there's your energy in - the adding of more electrolyte. its not a free energy or perpetual energy machine cuz your adding energy in the form of water. water contains latent energy and therefore is an eneregy source regardless of the scientific community's opinion. how many of those idiots say global warming isn't happening!?!

 

if your water is getting nasty, it may be cuz the baking soda is breaking down. baking soda is sodium hydrogen bicarbonate (NaHCO3) and as it breaks down it may it may be introducing carbon into the electrolyser - and carbon is bad, mmkay? use potassium hydroxide and it may clear things up, but at least avoid carbon. and remember, KOH will absorb carbon from air so keep it sealed. also, acrylic containers are better than pvc - higher temp resistance, stronger, and pvc leeches chemicals into your electrolyte, or whatever you put in it for that matter.

 

and one more thing -hho gas is not just highly flamable, its explosive. it burns 1000x's faster than gas and creates such pressure once ignited that you'll very likely go deaf if you allow it to explode near you. every hho system needs to use a bubbler and a one way valve to limit the hazard of explosion in the chamber, and bothe the bubbler and chamber should have blow out systems in place. be careful!!

 

i'm working on a high voltage system (110vac converted to a pulsed 150vdc current by diodes) with mutiple cells in single containers according to bob boyce's designs. i'm still building and waiting for my stainless plate stock to come in. i'm using 316L in 16gauge.

[simple monkey]

i'm curious as to why the pdf and the rest of the internet are set on using stainless steel for the plates. wouldn't a more conductive metal such as aluminum or copper do a better job?

[mountaingoatgruff]

i'm curious as to why the pdf and the rest of the internet are set on using stainless steel for the plates. wouldn't a more conductive metal such as aluminum or copper do a better job?

 

 

the sources i've read say to use 316L-grade stainless steel for two reasons:

 

1- 316L grade ss contains the proper amounts of nickel and molybdenum to actually make it a catalyst in electrolysis, helping the caustic potash/distilled water electrolyte to do it's job.

 

2- soft metals such as aluminum and copper are succeptible to corrosion under the operating conditions of a properly built high efficiency electrolyser.

 

also, i don't think aluminum is as conductive as ss, is it?

 

platinum makes the best cathodes and anodes for electrolysis, but its simply too expensive.

[simple monkey]

the sources i've read say to use 316L-grade stainless steel for two reasons:

 

1- 316L grade ss contains the proper amounts of nickel and molybdenum to actually make it a catalyst in electrolysis, helping the caustic potash/distilled water electrolyte to do it's job.

 

2- soft metals such as aluminum and copper are succeptible to corrosion under the operating conditions of a properly built high efficiency electrolyser.

 

also, i don't think aluminum is as conductive as ss, is it?

did not know nickel and molybdenum were good catalysts. i was assuming that aluminum and copper were good for this because they don't oxidize. aluminum is a better conductor than ss, all metals containing iron don't conduct as well as aluminum or copper.

any updates on those using the hydrogen on a car?

[Gravityman]

Ok first, Stainless steel is the only thing you can use, minus Ti but it is way too expensive! Alum and Copper are to soft and through the electrolisys process it will soon break down. Gold is an option but WAY to costly, I also tried electro plating gold on stainless but it also removed the gold plating. SS does not tarnish 316 is the way to go but is extreamly expensive!

 

BTW copper and Alum are nearly equal in their electrical conductivity compaired to SS. SS is actually a resistor, actually used in resistors.

 

My buddy did get an old carburated V6 to idle off of his small HHO generator. He clamped off the fuel line into the carb and let all the fuel run through along with the HHO. It initially idled at about 1K revs, once the fuel ran out the idle dropped to 750 revs. This was on a small very cheap designed HHO gen.

 

Glad the post started to catch some steam! get it steam 2H+2O:lol:

[970subaru]

i read about 40 pages into the pdf that was posted earlier and it's been a great eye opener to something i previously viewed as another electric supercharger. i had tried to look into this technology a few months ago but could only find sites of people selling kits which look really electric superchargerish.

what is generally considered about the limit for size of electrolysers that can be run in a passenger car with a standard charging system and a single battery and what kind of gains are they seeing?

gravityman do you think that the ej22e ecu would benefit from hydrogen just plumbed into the intake in stock form or would the ecu get confused and add fuel as the PDF suggests?

[Gravityman]

gravityman do you think that the ej22e ecu would benefit from hydrogen just plumbed into the intake in stock form or would the ecu get confused and add fuel as the PDF suggests?

 

I think there will be some improvement with the hydrogen mixed with gasoline but not a ton in the stock form. I did not read the write up on the PDF yet but I have looked over a LOT of info already out there, Plan on reading it.

 

Most people are using an Electronic Fuel Injection Enhancer (EFIE). It is supposed to compensate for your O2 sensor reading high from the added O2 introduced by the HHO. It then changes the input reading from the O2 sensor and tell the ECU that the engine is running closer to Stoich then it really is. I personally dont like quick fix gizmos that you have to tweak all the time that lie to your ECU. This is a cheap (cheesy) fix and potentially damaging! What happens if you the Generator stops working, Now you are running your engine lean, NOT GOOD!!

 

What i plan on doing is buying another Mega Squirt and hook it up to the EJ22. It is better to tell the ECU the proper O2 readings and then tune the fuel management in accordances with an accurate reading throughout the entire rev range for how ever much HHO the engine is receiving. I want to also build a switching device that will allow you to run the MS along side of the original ECU. When you are running only gasoline the stock ECU will run and the MS will be shut off. When you want to run the HHO you will select the HHO generator to "ON" inside the car via a switch (While the car is turned off) which will (deactivate the stock ECU) enable the HHO generator and the MS ECU that has been pretuned to run with HHO. The MS will be tuned to run the car at the highest efficiency with HHO to increase the MPG its maximum capability.

 

Also, since the MS can also adjust ignition timing, you will be able to adjust when the cylinder fires. As S'KO said previously and is true timing will need to change based on the amount of hydrogen introduced to the engine in order to obtain maximum efficiency.

 

This will be better then the EFIE because EFIE just lies to the ECU based on what you think the o2 sensor should say, not what it should say to obtain optimal stoich. You cant change fuel injector pulse width or duration to directly adjust for HHO, instead the EFIE is changing the position on the ECUs fuel map where it thinks it should be for the O2 reading you are giving it.

 

If you are hooking up the EFIE and say at 1000 revs you tune it, and the HHO generator has little vaccum on the system, whos to say that it wont create more gas or require more gas at higher revs. Also, what about the amount of HHO your generator makes, the efficiency based on heat in the cell and breakdown of electrolyte can dramatically reduce or increase the amount of gas your cell generates. So when the EFIE gets tuned when the generator is cold it will probably increase the fuel milage, but once the cell starts to heat up, the amps will increase which will increase the production of HHO again throwing off the HHO to Gas ratio, negating where the EFIE was tuned.

 

REMEMBER the Stock ECU for any gasoline engine was built to run a gasoline engine and the components on that engine were built around the combustion of gasoline and air. Yes hydrogen can run in a stock and completely unmodified gasoline engine but in order for hydrogen to run with gasoline at its highest efficiency you are going to need to change the brains(ECU) to run so that it knows that it is burning hydrogen and gasoline together. I belive that once the ECU is introduced, the engine could be tuned to obtain close to 2X its stock efficiency. It will retain or improve its original HP and TQ but at least double its original MPG.

 

MEGASQUIRT GOOD --- EFIE BAD!

 

Hope you understand what I just wrote, makes sence to me.

[970subaru]

yeah, makes sense. i read about the efie and it sounds like a pretty crappy way to do things.

Isn't megasquirt capable of loading multiple maps? seems like a waste to install megasquirt and not run it all the time plus switching between two different ecu's sounds like a lot of unnecessary complication.

 

how are you planning on triggering the megasquirt ignition, a edis setup or has someone decoded the 7 tooth subaru crank trigger yet?

[joostvdw]

I happen to have a non feedback EA82T (no O2 sensor, closed loop all the time) and it seems to me, that if I were to introduce the Hydrogen gas BEFORE the MAF the ECU would automatically increase the amount of fuel injected and keep it stoich (or should I say, keep it on the fuel map, because this thing never knows if it's stoich or not)

 

right? wrong? I'm going to read the pdf now

 

edit: alright, so I did read the pdf and I realise I shouldn't add combustible gasses before the turbo still, I would like to see this work before attempting it. It sounds too good to be true, but please prove me wrong

[Gravityman]

how are you planning on triggering the megasquirt ignition, a edis setup or has someone decoded the 7 tooth subaru crank trigger yet?

 

I plan on running the EDIS 4. I have not seen the 7 tooth wheel in operation yet, nor have I researched too far into that either. I originally started to work with the MS on my ER27. Seeing that this is an entirely new engine I have a few more options to work with and figure out.

 

It has been I while since I have messed with my MS. At the time I know you could only run one fuel/spark map at a time. Unless someone finished building a loader that has saved maps on the MS I belive you have to hook up your laptop to change your maps. But this option would be perfect! I would try to get the MS guru's to build me a circuit that detects the hydrogen or controls the amount of hydro generated in order to produce the amount the engine requires. Or something like that:-\ ..

 

A

 

I happen to have a non feedback EA82T (no O2 sensor, closed loop all the time) and it seems to me, that if I were to introduce the Hydrogen gas BEFORE the MAF the ECU would automatically increase the amount of fuel injected and keep it stoich (or should I say, keep it on the fuel map, because this thing never knows if it's stoich or not)

 

I plan on working on an experimental cell that seperates the hydrogen from the oxygen so you are running pure hydrogen into the intake. What this will allow you to do is run the hydrogen into the intake after the MAF sensor and purge the pure Oxygen into the atmosphere. This should help equalize the ECU, showing stoich under natural conditions and not having to add o2 modifications. The pure burn should keep the o2 showing stoich almost constantly. Hopefully this works... All based off of my theory:slobber:

[mountaingoatgruff]

I think there will be some improvement with the hydrogen mixed with gasoline but not a ton in the stock form. I did not read the write up on the PDF yet but I have looked over a LOT of info already out there, Plan on reading it.

 

Most people are using an Electronic Fuel Injection Enhancer (EFIE). It is supposed to compensate for your O2 sensor reading high from the added O2 introduced by the HHO. It then changes the input reading from the O2 sensor and tell the ECU that the engine is running closer to Stoich then it really is. I personally dont like quick fix gizmos that you have to tweak all the time that lie to your ECU. This is a cheap (cheesy) fix and potentially damaging! What happens if you the Generator stops working, Now you are running your engine lean, NOT GOOD!!

 

What i plan on doing is buying another Mega Squirt and hook it up to the EJ22. It is better to tell the ECU the proper O2 readings and then tune the fuel management in accordances with an accurate reading throughout the entire rev range for how ever much HHO the engine is receiving. I want to also build a switching device that will allow you to run the MS along side of the original ECU. When you are running only gasoline the stock ECU will run and the MS will be shut off. When you want to run the HHO you will select the HHO generator to "ON" inside the car via a switch (While the car is turned off) which will (deactivate the stock ECU) enable the HHO generator and the MS ECU that has been pretuned to run with HHO. The MS will be tuned to run the car at the highest efficiency with HHO to increase the MPG its maximum capability.

 

Also, since the MS can also adjust ignition timing, you will be able to adjust when the cylinder fires. As S'KO said previously and is true timing will need to change based on the amount of hydrogen introduced to the engine in order to obtain maximum efficiency.

 

This will be better then the EFIE because EFIE just lies to the ECU based on what you think the o2 sensor should say, not what it should say to obtain optimal stoich. You cant change fuel injector pulse width or duration to directly adjust for HHO, instead the EFIE is changing the position on the ECUs fuel map where it thinks it should be for the O2 reading you are giving it.

 

If you are hooking up the EFIE and say at 1000 revs you tune it, and the HHO generator has little vaccum on the system, whos to say that it wont create more gas or require more gas at higher revs. Also, what about the amount of HHO your generator makes, the efficiency based on heat in the cell and breakdown of electrolyte can dramatically reduce or increase the amount of gas your cell generates. So when the EFIE gets tuned when the generator is cold it will probably increase the fuel milage, but once the cell starts to heat up, the amps will increase which will increase the production of HHO again throwing off the HHO to Gas ratio, negating where the EFIE was tuned.

 

REMEMBER the Stock ECU for any gasoline engine was built to run a gasoline engine and the components on that engine were built around the combustion of gasoline and air. Yes hydrogen can run in a stock and completely unmodified gasoline engine but in order for hydrogen to run with gasoline at its highest efficiency you are going to need to change the brains(ECU) to run so that it knows that it is burning hydrogen and gasoline together. I belive that once the ECU is introduced, the engine could be tuned to obtain close to 2X its stock efficiency. It will retain or improve its original HP and TQ but at least double its original MPG.

 

MEGASQUIRT GOOD --- EFIE BAD!

 

Hope you understand what I just wrote, makes sence to me.

 

what's the point after all that? you're going to spend so much to do make this idea happen that you wont even make it back in increased mpg! burning hydrogen will drive performance down so building an hho hotrod system is an utter waste of time and resources - it defeats the purpose of an hho system in the first place. i would even go so far as to say that if you did build this thing, it would probably consume more oil based products and energy through building, driving and maintaining it than just driving on gasoline!

 

something to keep in mind - anybody that's serious about kicking our oil habit and reverting to a sustainable energy economy needs to realize that performance automobiles need to be the first thing to go.

 

...my new hobby is going to be COWTIPPING!!

[nipper]

...my new hobby is going to be COWTIPPING!!

 

They still get 15% ?

 

Seems sort of a waste of money since they just stand there.

 

[Gravityman]

what's the point after all that? you're going to spend so much to do make this idea happen that you wont even make it back in increased mpg! burning hydrogen will drive performance down so building an hho hotrod system is an utter waste of time and resources - it defeats the purpose of an hho system in the first place. i would even go so far as to say that if you did build this thing, it would probably consume more oil based products and energy through building, driving and maintaining it than just driving on gasoline!

 

something to keep in mind - anybody that's serious about kicking our oil habit and reverting to a sustainable energy economy needs to realize that performance automobiles need to be the first thing to go.

 

...my new hobby is going to be COWTIPPING!!

 

Ok numbers it is... Lets see both ends of the spectrum.

 

Lets say for me to build this system (FULLY self sustained all you have to do is add water(hose water) and change an electrolyte canister every 3 months), completly at the most I would be looking at about $500. A little expensive at first sure.

 

Figure on average a car or suv gets about 20MPG AVERAGE.

 

Figure regular gasoline is about $4 per gallon RIGHT NOW increasing about 30 cents per month but lets just say 15 cents per month.

 

Based off of those figures I would be spending .2 cents per mile. It would take me 2500 miles to reach my cost of $500. That is without the HHO generator system installed. Average about 12000 miles of driving a year, thats 1000 miles per month. So in 2-3 months I spent $500 on gas.

 

Ok now I install the system so, $500 +gas. Say gas is still $4 but I increase my MPG to 25, should be completely obtainable by a finely tuned system. I would be spending .16 cents per mile on gas. On $500 I could drive 3125 miles but I would have to add the $500 for the cost of the system. I would have to drive 1 year, 12500 miles in order to pay off the system and break even. After that I start to save. :-\ . That is with only an increase of 5 MPG or 25% increase on average.

 

Say now I increase my MPGs to 30. It will take half the time to pay off the system. So only 6 month.

 

35 MPG about 3 months and 40 MPGs which would be a 100% increase which would be insane but it would pay it off at the pump.

 

I wont speculate that I will get a 100% increase in fuel economy, but I know that an untuned HHO booster has the capability to increase economy to 50%.

 

Forget not that this is based off of a vehicle that doesnt get very good gas milage to start. Figure, in a vehicle that gets about 30 MPG average!

 

Now on the other side like I said and you probably have noticed that gas prices have been rising steadly, between 7-30 cents per month. IF prices continue at the same rate we will be paying between $4.84-$7.60 per gallon. (Completely what if). It is possible gas right now is about $4 per/gal exactly 1 year ago it was $3.20. Thats only a 7 cent per month hike. Half a year prior it was $2.20.

 

Either way. I will be trying this, I am going to make it work. The efficiency will be the basis of how long it will take me to pay off the system. The better the technology and advancements become, the lower the cost and higher the efficiency will become.

 

Be a naysayer:-p We will see. How much of an increase in MPG do you need to see to agree that it works and you decide to buy one?

 

It will be cheaper to get out to the pastures to tip cows!

[mountaingoatgruff]

first off, i'm doubtful that you'll get far running on hose water, the mineral and possible chlorine content will contaminate your cell(s). every proper electrolyser build i've seen uses distilled water which drasticly increses your cost until you build/buy a water distilling setup, then you're still most likely using petro-based energy in some form to distill your water and certainly to build/maintain the water still. then you also have to maintain the electrolyser, of course.

 

i'm simply advocating a simpler/cheaper/less consumptive way of doing this, otherwise it defeats the point.

 

the point of the technology is not so you can drive your hotrod more or so individuals can save cash in any timeframe. the point of any alternative fuel technology is to help humanity wean itself off oil and to end the destruction to our environment. our individualist mentalities are part of what's got us in this mess to begin with.

 

btw - i can WALK to the pastures out here! that's still free, remember? and if i'm feeling lazy i'll ride my bike.

[mountaingoatgruff]

How much of an increase in MPG do you need to see to agree that it works and you decide to buy one?

 

i won't buy one - i'm already getting ready to try to build one, but i won't buy one.

[Yo'J]

Yeah! I hear that! It can't be that hard! It seems to me it could be cheap to build but laborious to pay for! Bless the Weber!

[mountaingoatgruff]

i just want to state a few things for the record:

 

while i do enjoy my subaru - i liked my 01 ram more. i miss my truck and i only sold my truck to reduce my personal carbon footprint.

 

my interest in hho technology is for that same purpose. i respect that not everyone feels the same way that i do but the fact is that as automotive enthusiasts, the very things we love are choking us now and will continue to degrade our planet to the point that our children will suffer for it, no if's and's or butt's - they will suffer!

 

i cannot in clear conscience continue to love that which is killing those i love and so i am looking into hho to hopefully be able to do something that will help. this is not a financial interest for me, i'm not just trying to save a few buck on gas. its an issue of moral integrity in light of what we as responsible adults owe our posterity. if it doesn't work i'm willing to give up cars altogether to save the future of humanity and our planet, are you?

 

for those who scoff: if this subject makes you laugh or if you don't believe global warming is a "big deal" than you are downright stupid and i'm not sorry for saying so. only you can educate yourself so i challenge you to actually look into the truth behind the propaganda campaign that disputes global warming.

[Reveeen]

I just want to state a few things for the record:

 

1) I have been on this planet for over 1/2 a century.

2) There is no such thing as a "free lunch".

3) Reducing a personal carbon footprint is pure folly, global warming is the natural result of simply more persons, the intelligent (but unpopular) solution is population reduction (you pick the method).

4) The largest domestic polluter is the electrical generation industry.

(how many of us are willing to huddle in out huts with no electricity? Not many? I *thought* so.)

 

If it is your desire to not use fossil fuel try this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodgas

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_gas_generator

Even your government has tested this method and released a paper on it (.pdf)

http://www.global-greenhouse-warming.com/support-files/wood_gas_generator.pdf

(maybe you should buy your truck back and put one of these in the bed)

[joostvdw]

I just want to state a few things for the record:

 

2) There is no such thing as a "free lunch".

 

I think this completely sums up this whole topic. There is no way to make energy out of nothing. So running an engine completely on water (hydrogen) which it generates on it's own is not that easy... (read, impossible)

 

On the other hand, the addition of hydrogen gas to the combustion process in a car MIGHT reduce pollution, I don't know, but would like to see it work. Because that would be worth looking into.

[mountaingoatgruff]

I just want to state a few things for the record:

 

1) I have been on this planet for over 1/2 a century.

2) There is no such thing as a "free lunch".

 

true, just try to build and operate an hho system and you'll find hho technology is far from a free lunch. that (just like your age) is an irrelevant point.

 

3) Reducing a personal carbon footprint is pure folly, global warming is the natural result of simply more persons, the intelligent (but unpopular) solution is population reduction (you pick the method).

 

to say that population growth alone is responsible for global warming completely ignores the science behind the situation. the data shows that global warming is caused primarily by the industrial revolution and the technologies spawned since then. sure, the industrial rev and the tech boom have led to exponential pop growth, and that pop growth has compounded the effects and increased the rate of global warming, but the real culprit is certainly dirty technologies.

 

to say that reducing one's carbon footprint is folly is downright stupid! are you mad?!? there is data showing how bad things will get if we don't change our ways and there is also data that shows how great a positive impact the little things can make. you really should do some more looking into this thing before you convince somebody else to take the irresponsible, ignorant and hazardous approach you have.

 

4) The largest domestic polluter is the electrical generation industry.

(how many of us are willing to huddle in out huts with no electricity? Not many? I *thought* so.)

 

wrong again!!! reaseach it and you'll see, according to the epa and all the scientific data i've read - transportation engines (cars, trucks, trains, planes & boats) are the number one source followed by power plants. pointing the finger does nothing but prove you have no interest in doing your part. and yes, i've lived months without electricity before and i'll gladly do it permanently though that's not necessary. there are technologies capable of replacing coal and diesel power plants but we can't affor them cuz we're spending billions of dollars to bring "democrasy" to the terrorist's homeland.

 

If it is your desire to not use fossil fuel try this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodgas

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_gas_generator

Even your government has tested this method and released a paper on it (.pdf)

http://www.global-greenhouse-warming.com/support-files/wood_gas_generator.pdf

(maybe you should buy your truck back and put one of these in the bed)

 

 

i have looked into gasification and its not a viable long-term alternative. the amount of wood you burn and trees you destroy creates a hell of a carbon footprint, defeating my purpose.

 

its not my intent to offend you raveeen, but you are clearly ignorant of the truth behind this situation. may i suggest that you at least watch a documentary or two?

[mountaingoatgruff]

There is no way to make energy out of nothing.

 

read post #27, please. i think its the third paragraph...

[Reveeen]

you are clearly ignorant of the truth behind this situation

 

The "situation", as you wish to put it, is simply: the entire exploding population of this planet wishes to consume, and seems to want to go to great lengths to consume as much, as fast, as they can. Fix that and you will have beaten global warming.

 

I consume a lot less than most folks I know, but if you live in a place that is temperate, you have me beat, because I insist on heating my house in the winter (and by that very fact make a major contribution to global warming).

[Gravityman]

Ok...

 

 

So...

 

 

Umm...

 

 

What is the chance we can get back on track???

 

first off, i'm doubtful that you'll get far running on hose water, the mineral and possible chlorine content will contaminate your cell(s). every proper electrolyser build i've seen uses distilled water which drasticly increses your cost until you build/buy a water distilling setup, then you're still most likely using petro-based energy in some form to distill your water and certainly to build/maintain the water still. then you also have to maintain the electrolyser, of course.

 

i'm simply advocating a simpler/cheaper/less consumptive way of doing this, otherwise it defeats the point.

 

the point of the technology is not so you can drive your hotrod more or so individuals can save cash in any timeframe. the point of any alternative fuel technology is to help humanity wean itself off oil and to end the destruction to our environment. our individualist mentalities are part of what's got us in this mess to begin with.

 

 

First, I am sorry that I misled you to thinking that i am going to just dump regular old hose water into the electrolsys unit, this is not the case. It will be distilled. I am building and simpletons HHO setup. I dont want people to have to go to walmart to spend $15+ on 15 gallons of distilled water when a car already has the capability to use its waste to distill the water on its own.

 

Also, about my last post, I was mearly defending myself from the statment that this completely cost ineffeciant and that it would be better to spend $500 on gas then it would be to build my unit. I am not concerned about just cash on a timeframe, just showing that this is not just a big waste of time.

 

It is cool that you might try to build a cell, good on you. The thing is, unless it is very efficiant the cost will take a while to outway any cons.

 

In the long run we are talking about money, the reduction of a carbon footprint will just be a pro to adding this to a vehicle. Think about it this way, when gas was only $1 per gallon and no one cared about the cost of gas, no one cared about trying to make their car more efficiant. Now that the price of gas is about $4 and rising and it is killing all of our pocketbooks, everyone is trying to do something about it. I went to a few car dealers this last weekend and they said there is a 3 month waiting list go get a hybrid car. Do you think its like that because people care about the enviornment or because people are tired of paying $75 to fill up their tanks?

 

The thing you need to realize is by building a more efficiant car that runs at high MPG's or hydrogen will be cheaper to run, the outcome will be a lower carbon footprint.

 

Understand that in the USA alone we use about 150 Billion gallons of gasoline per year. We use about 1400 Billion gallons of water per year. If you were to reclaim some of that water and build a natural distill that runs off of sunlight/heat you could essentually run the hydro-gen without pulling any additional water. Recycling water to run your car, that would help lower that footprint thing you were talking about.

 

I just ask you if you are so concerned about lowering your carbon footprint so much, dont dis people that are trying to fix the problem. Whether my motive is to reduce the amount of gasoline I have to buy and save money or make my car run cleaner, I am trying to fix the problem if it works it will fix both. I do appriciate your criticisem it helps me take a look at my design and better modify them to increase the gas output and reduce cost.

 

So thanks!

[hardhatz]

"Global Warming", "Carbon Footprint", "Climate Change".. Buzzwords of Useful Idiots. Useful to the pigs who want to strip every good thing from society & put us (and especially U.S.) back into the dark ages and on our knees. How arrogant of them to think they have such power over the planet & its workings.

 

It makes me livid that-in the age of ULEV Hondas, Fords, etc that literally leave the air behind them cleaner than they found it-these donkeys continue to wring their hands & demand a blood sacrifice. If you are one of them, you ought to be ashamed of yourself. But, I doubt you can get past your mental disorder (Liberalism) long enough to see it.

 

About HHO: I am very very interested in it. If anybody figures out how, please share it with me. I do not delude myself that I will Change the World, my interest is purely selfish: I want to save money. I drive 150 to 200 miles a day.

 

Oh, one more thing: The Globe is NOT warming. That is a fact.