Running on E-85??

[bluesuby89]

I was wondering if anyone has tried to run their subaru on E-85 with or without any modifications? If with modifications what did you need to do to make it work? I ask becuase I drove by a station that has some this weekend and it was $2.29/gal.

 

thanks

[simple monkey]

there are a few builds with E-85 on www.nasioc.com. E-85 has a differnet stoichometric ratio, its closer to 9:1 instead of 16:1 like gasoline. You also need to redo your fuel system and set it up for a conductive fuel, the rubber would be eaten by the E-85. also, on http://www.turbobricks.com

this topic has been covered many times.

hope that helps.

[gbrand]

without getting into the political ramifactions of why ethonal from corn is a croc, yes E85 is cheaper, but if your vehicle is not designed for it you can be asking for BIG trouble-corrosion, eating rubber, drivability issues, etc. etc. Also the big thing to remeber is the energy value of alcohol is MUCH less than gasoline(about half IIRC) so the mpgs will be much less, so the price per gallon is not a real fair comparision-look at cents per mile.

 

if you have a flex fuel vehicle like the GM's and others fine. if your car was designed for gas,stick with it

[Frank B]

It would be easier to run a carbed vehicle on it. After you replace all seals and gaskets with ethanol compatable ones. Just as mentioned before, it takes a richer mix than gas. You would have to re-jet the carb, and most likely be able to remove most of the emissions hardware.

Most gas you buy has 10% ethanol in it anyway, and most states are talking about going to RFG gas only. Both of which result in less MPG, but less emissions as well.

If there is a sticker on the pump that says the gas could contain 10% ethanol, it could be one of three types, or obviously a mix of the three, RFG, conventional, or conv. with 10% ethanol. It just depends on what's cheaper thet day. The conv. with ethanol is my favorite, the 10% ethanol raises the octane, 87 is 89, 89 is 92, and 93 is 95.

[mikeshoup]

The conv. with ethanol is my favorite, the 10% ethanol raises the octane, 87 is 89, 89 is 92, and 93 is 95.

Or they just use lower octane gas and add the ethanol. Colorado sells only fuel with 10% ethanol, and we still have octanes of 85, 87 and 91.

[Durania]

Or they just use lower octane gas and add the ethanol. Colorado sells only fuel with 10% ethanol, and we still have octanes of 85, 87 and 91.

They sell this stuff at Kroger, Food City, Wal-Mart and Pilot. I noticed I don't get as good as mileage around town but it's a lot cheaper.

[hatchsub]

I know this is about running ethanol in an old suby but i have to add my 2 cents in. I just did a research paper on ethanol and concluded that it is one of the dumbest ideas that our government has done thus far. Its NOT sustainable, it doesnt really pollute less when looking at the whole picture (aka production, distribution etc) and doesnt cost any less than gas. I fact it is driving the price of gas up at the moment. Even if all the corn fields in the US were converted to ethanol production it would only fuel 12% of our demand for fuel. So my question is why bother? The government should be spending its time and energy on alternate sources such as electric and hydrogen. BMW already has a hydrogen powered car

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

Yes, I read about it on "Popular Mechanics" Magazine; I Believe that can be Better Idea to Run a Subie on LPG Gas Setup, but it can be Dangerous if the Car gets into an Accident.

[Frank B]

Or they just use lower octane gas and add the ethanol. Colorado sells only fuel with 10% ethanol, and we still have octanes of 85, 87 and 91.

They don't change the stickers on the pumps, only because they would have to change it every time they drop fuel in the tanks. The RFG, or what used to be called oxygenated fuel, also has 10% ethanol, and they do use a lower octane fuel to get the end result at, 87, 89, or 91, 92, 93. The CONV is 87, 89, 91, 92 or 93 in the tanks, so they can't start with a lower octane. I'm sure that will change soon. I think it all starts as 85 octane and the addatives raise the octane, but I can't get an answer on that yet. Here, in VA, it's only 87, 89, and 93. We have the RFG, CONV, and CONV with ethanol. I haven't seen the E85 yet. But I suspect sheetz will be the first to offer it.

I only know this becasue I've been driving a gas tanker since October, and I load, haul, and deliver this stuff 4 days a week.

 

For a while, we were putting 87 conv with eth in the mid grade tanks(89) at the generic stations so the company can turn a higher profit, but that stopped. I don't know why, but I suspect that someone complained and they stopped to avoid a lawsuit or other crap.

They get whatever is cheapest that day, RFG, CONV or CONV with Ethanol. And the generic stations usually get whatever brand is cheapest. it could be BP, Exxon, Chevron, Citgo, etc to go in the generic stations. Unless the transport company is not authorized to deliver a branded product to any station but that brand. The branded gas stations, Exxon, Chevron, BP, Texaco gets that brand only. So going to a branded station is your best bet for quality fuel, and I would recommend Exxon or Chevron, they offer the best product, really. We have Exxon, Chevron, BP, Pure, Liberty, Dixie, and Texaco(Chevron) and even rack gas, which is the cheapest addative package you could imagine supplied by the company that owns the terminal, but that only goes in the generic stations. And we deliver whatever is cheapest that day.

There is only one station that we have that is CONV only, and that's the station at the business headquarters, were I go to work, and I buy my gas. I have used the CONV with ETH in my hatch, and it does run better, but the RFG runs like crap! I think they shoul have little flip signs at the pumps to tell the customers just what type of gas they're buying, but I think it would hurt sales.

I hear the Governor wants RFG only in VA, and plans to start that sometime this year. Good for emissions. The Diesel is all ultra low sulfer(15 ppm sulfer) now, at the pumps. Commercial accounts can still get low sulfer(500 ppm sulfer). The heating oil which used to 2500 ppm or higher, is going to be 15 ppm this year. and all the off road diesel is changing over to ulsd, 15 ppm. The off road diesel is just diesel with a red dye, since you don't pay the highway tax.

[Durania]

I learned that ethanol is not favored by most when driving across Indiana last summer. Close to Muncie there were talks of setting up an ethanol production plant and every few miles one would see signs with a corn ear crossed out with "no ethanol" to some effect written under it. Really surprised me being it was corn country, you would have thought they would liked it.

[Reveeen]

I know this is about running ethanol in an old suby but i have to add my 2 cents in. I just did a research paper on ethanol and concluded that it is one of the dumbest ideas that our government has done thus far. Its NOT sustainable, it doesnt really pollute less when looking at the whole picture (aka production, distribution etc) and doesnt cost any less than gas. I fact it is driving the price of gas up at the moment. Even if all the corn fields in the US were converted to ethanol production it would only fuel 12% of our demand for fuel. So my question is why bother? The government should be spending its time and energy on alternate sources such as electric and hydrogen. BMW already has a hydrogen powered car

 

 

+10 on dumb idea

 

Not to mention: Has anybody figured out WTF we are going to eat if farmers switch to producing crops with ethanol in mind?

 

I have to disagree to some extent though: The government should be spending its time and energy on ensuring we have unpolluted food, and drinking water.

[simple monkey]

ethanol has a higher octane rating than gasoline, so if you have your car tuned for higher octane, adding a few gallons of E-85 to your tank could increase performance. The problem with this is if you ever put low octane back in, it will start pinging/knocking.

[hatchsub]

yes its true that ethanol has a higher octane rating but it also has 34% less energy than gas...meaning 34% less fuel economy. So yea dumb idea all around. I had a book in my room published in 1988 by a scientist that outlined why ethanol couldnt be a main fuel. Funny how we are trying to make it one some 20 years later.

[Frank B]

The perfect fuel, or the one we should be using is electric. Solar, wind, and hydro. all low impact or no impact. But all are too expensive, which is the only reason we use petroleum anyway, it's cheap energy. Well it was anyway.......

The only reason it's high now is because of investors. They screwed up the housing and mortgage market, now they're tearing into the oil market. The next is our food by jumping on the ethanol wagon. When we use methanol form beef crap, they'll screw that up. American greed is the problem. Sure it's easy for a low-class, blue collar man to say that, but it's true. The only way this country, or world for that matter will switch to better(cleaner) energy is if there's money in it.

If I had the money, my home and my trasportation would be operating on solar, wind or hydro-electic power.

Sounds wierd coming from a guy that drives a gas tanker ... but it's a pay check, for now. The way I see it, I'm learning just how messed up the oil industry is, even at the lower, or lowest level.

[Reveeen]

American greed is the problem.

 

I disagree. It is "desk operating do nothings" moving pieces of paper from one pile, to another, skimming the "cream" off of the top, and not doing, now, or ever, one bit of work to merit the money they earn. The economy can stand only so much of this BS, but sooner, or later, once the economy is based on a lot of nothing, it will collapse. I call these folk "Carnies in suits".

[hatchsub]

American greed is the problem.

 

I disagree. It is "desk operating do nothings" moving pieces of paper from one pile, to another, skimming the "cream" off of the top, and not doing, now, or ever, one bit of work to merit the money they earn. The economy can stand only so much of this BS, but sooner, or later, once the economy is based on a lot of nothing, it will collapse. I call these folk "Carnies in suits".

*Cough BUSH Cough*

[mikeshoup]

I think it all starts as 85 octane and the addatives raise the octane, but I can't get an answer on that yet.

In Colorado, they must start lower than 85 as our regular is 85 octane, as the pump sticker says, and it always has been, even before the mandatory 10% ethanol. Colorado's elevation is high enough though we don't need the octane.

 

And we need to stop blaming American greed, "desk operating do nothings" and all the other common people we blame. The market is what it is. Eventually, we're going to reach a point where the oil supply is so low that it becomes too expensive for us to use as fuel for our cars. Only then will alternative fuel sources become readily available for consumer consumption.

[Reveeen]

And we need to stop blaming American greed, "desk operating do nothings" and all the other common people we blame.

 

Once upon a time, "the economy" was based on "value added", you took a raw material, be it steel, oil, flour, what have you, and transformed this raw material into something useful.

Now the economy is based on BS, moving one piece of paper to another pile, and skimming off of the top, not adding any "real" value, nor providing ANY jobs.

 

consumer consumption

 

In the "modern" economy there will be no consumers, because folks without jobs don't buy anything, if you haven't noticed.

 

There is no "blame" just simple reality.

[Frank B]

In Colorado, they must start lower than 85 as our regular is 85 octane, as the pump sticker says, and it always has been, even before the mandatory 10% ethanol. Colorado's elevation is high enough though we don't need the octane.

 

That's the point I was trying to make before, but I suck at explaining sometimes. They don't change the pump sticker when they add the ethanol. They take the same gas, 85 let's say, and then add ethanol which will raise the octane, but that 10% of the mix is cheaper then gas so it brings the overall price down. It isn't part of the recipe just yet as it is with the reformulated, RFG, gas. The sticker is to tell you what the minimum octane is, not the actual octane. That's pretty close to imposible anymore. If they put 87 on the pump, if that's what it is now with ethanol in it, they couldn't put 85 in that tank. It has to be at least what the sticker says. They need to keep that option open, 85 conv may be cheaper tomorrow. For a while, RFG was the cheapest, so my employer cleaned and removed all the water from all the stations tanks so they could use RFG in all the stations. That lasted a few weeks. Now it goes back and forth. And yes, all the tanks in the ground have water in them. Some companies keep up on pumping it out, some don't.

We have put 89 octane in 87 octane tanks before because the terminals were out of 87, just to keep the station open. We've had to mix 87 and 93 to get 89 because the terminals were out of 89. It's really surprising to what lengths they will go to keep the stations open. For a while the company I work for was selling at cost just to stay competitve, with Sheetz mostly.

 

I just heard on MRN the other day that there is no proof that a gas shortage is responsible for the increase in price, nor is it demand since it can not be acurately forcasted(demand), just an overflow of investors. I don't understand investments well enough to know how or why.

[carfreak85]

The perfect fuel, or the one we should be using is ...and hydro....low impact or no impact.

I'm sorry, but how can Hydro power be considered low impact? In Washington at least this kind of production is desimating salmon runs at an unheard of rate. In fact, besides Alaska, there is not a single "healthy" salmon run on the west coast of America. Any time a hydro dam in built, the local ecosystem is irriversably changed. There is no such thing as a free lunch, and hydro is not going to get us there.

 

Go solar baby!!

 

Also, because farmers are switching to corn and have been for years (stupid government subsidies), the price of hops and barley are going up. This increases the cost of everyones favorite drink, BEER!

[mikeshoup]

Also, because farmers are switching to corn and have been for years (stupid government subsidies), the price of hops and barley are going up. This increases the cost of everyones favorite drink, BEER!

I noticed yesterday that I paid 30 cents more for my favorite beer: Flying Dog Amber Lager

 

And it can't be much of the price of petroleum, considering its brewed only a couple hours away from me.

[bluesuby89]

Wow!! I didn't expect this question would bring this many replies. I was just wondering if anyone out there had run the stuff in their older subarus. More curiosity than anything else.

 

I too have trouble with the idea of burning gas that could have fed the hungry. But from what I gather one can make ethonal out of the stalks and not just the cob of corn. I like the idea of using what otherwise would be waste for another purpose. If fact my subaru was headed for the junkyard before I took it and nursed it back to life.

 

Personally, I think the future of energy will require some creative thinking. You know like Doc on Back to the future, with his bannana peel and beer delorean. Who knows what is next?

[Frank B]

I'm sorry, but how can Hydro power be considered low impact? In Washington at least this kind of production is desimating salmon runs at an unheard of rate. In fact, besides Alaska, there is not a single "healthy" salmon run on the west coast of America. Any time a hydro dam in built, the local ecosystem is irriversably changed. There is no such thing as a free lunch, and hydro is not going to get us there.

 

Go solar baby!!

 

Also, because farmers are switching to corn and have been for years (stupid government subsidies), the price of hops and barley are going up. This increases the cost of everyones favorite drink, BEER!

 

Small scale hydro, and diverting a part of the water flow to the turbine via piping instead of a big dam. You don't need a Hoover sized dam to do the job. People have built ones with car alternators that use about the same amount of flow that your garden hose puts out!

[Rxbubaru]

What I have seen in both my research and testing of alternative fuels is america is hooked on OIL and sooner or later either the people needy of transportation (i.e. the truckers in D.C.) are going to pretty much riot or the economy is going to collapse in on its self due to the truckers stopping trasportating goods. I am currently working on biodiesel along with penn state to find a way to actually mass produce it but so far it hasnt worked because the mass demand for the various used or new vegatable oils it requires. But if our pres was smart he would side with who ever wants the oil from alaska and open up those lines to use for the u.s. and instead of shipping the oil out of nation to be refined, refine it in the u.s. which would reduce prices 25-35% approx. Just my 2cents:banghead:

[Ginger48]

The many distillation plants that are being built in the midwest that are pumping massive amounts of water out of the Ogallala aquifer to make E85 is only adding to the future food shortage problem. There is only so much water available and when it’s gone.....I don’t want to think about it.