want to convert my ea82 spfi to carbureted-help!

[jonnymick]

up until about 3000 or 3200 rpms my car runs like a dog & if i try & run it hard it kind of jerks (not a full on jerk, but it has power-then it doesnt-then it does-all of this happens really fast and stops once i get to 3k) and with all of the hoses & bs im fed up with the spfi. im looking to convert it to carbureted & im asking any of you that may know, what all am i going to need to do this? i understand im going to need a carb and carb manifold for it, but what else am i going to need? do i need to change my distributer to a vac. advance one or can my current one remain, and what about the ecm, and what am i going to need to do to keep my current temp sensor working or should i just get an aftermarket one or ?? if anyone on here is experienced with this i would GREATLY appreciate the help. my car is an 89 gl 1.8 spfi non turbo 5 speed on demand 4x4 and im hoping to remove all or -most- of the emissions hoses and crap to simplify the my engine & make it easier for me to work on and make look good, because there are SO many stupid hoses & such that i really dont need due to the fact that where i live we dont have to worry about e checks. please help me guys, i love this car and i dont want to get sick of it because of stupid problems like too many bs hoses and it running like jack in the low end.

 

thanks! Jon

[idosubaru]

try putting a post in the parts wanted forum for a carb set up. i'd guess someone has a complete intake and carb available....and probably distributor stuff too.

 

you might be better off fixing the problem you have instead of putting all the time and effort into an antiquated, less efficient, and less reliable set up. the FI stuff isn't that hard to work on, apparently it's just matter of opinion because i can't stand carbs.

 

i won't post any suggestions on fixing your SPFI but if you start another thread asking about that you'll get some responses.

[hatchsub]

I was going to say what Grossgary said. I love carbs too so thats saying something. If you have FI dont go backwards in time. Fix it and enjoy it.

[jonnymick]

im not concerned with why people think i shouldnt go carb, its what i want to do, if i could 95% of the hoses & emissions crap that i dont want or need, i would consider staying with it, but from what i hear, i cant, so im looking to go carb. please dont post trying to get me to change my mind, im not asking for opinions on what i want to do, im just asking for help doing it. thanks, Jon.

[Numbchux]

but from what i hear, i cant

 

you heard wrong. the carb'ed setup (ESPECIALLY a factory one) will have about 8x more vacuum lines and BS that doesn't work right. I totally respect your decision, but I want to make sure you've got accurate information, which it really doesn't sound like you do. The EA82 carburetor is an insanely complex unit and would be a significant down grade.

 

I've had a couple EA82s where the only vacuum lines in the engine bay were PCV and IAC (idle air control).

 

 

 

if it's vacuum lines that you want to avoid, don't bother looking for a factory carb

 

but you will need the carb'ed intake manifold (the mount where the carb is level, whereas the throttle body on an SPFI one is at an angle). you'll need the distributer (vacuum advance). Then you'll need an adapter plate and a weber carb. and lots of patience to tune it.

 

you'll also probably need to do some re-wiring. I forget how the carbed setup gets the Tach signal, but the SPFI gets it straight from the ECU, which obviously won't be doing anything anymore.

 

 

 

I'm swapping a carbed EA82 or an EJ22 here in the next couple weeks. at which point anything and everything will be available.

[idosubaru]

quit trying to change his mind! ha ha. he's already annoyed with my suggestions, the first being to help him get the carb he wants??

[mcbrat]

to get the most simplistic carb set-up, you'll want to get a carby intake manifold, and put on a weber 32/36 carb and adapter.

 

many threads on here about putting on a Weber.

 

you'll also need to get a carby:

fuel pump

distributor

 

and be sure to remove the SPFI fuel pressure regulator

you'll be bypassing the ecu totally, so there may be some wiring things to take care of.....

[jonnymick]

im not talking stock carb, im talking a simplified carb setup in general.

[mcbrat]

im not talking stock carb, im talking a simplified carb setup in general.

 

see my above post. that's the way to go. not stock, and minimal vac lines.

[TheSubaruJunkie]

The weber 32/36 will be the simplest swap. You will need a EA82 carb manifold. It will bolt right on. You will do away with most the vacuum lines.

 

However, i doubt the problem you are experiencing is the SPFI, and its possible you will still have the same problem with a carb.

[kybishop]

If you do toss it, toss it in the blue USPS can in a box marked

 

Kevin Bishop

128 Iwant TheSPFI

Frankfort Ky 40601

 

Thanks!

 

I can not offer any advice with this particular swap but I am interested in an SPFI for an EA82. I wish you luck in getting it fixed.

[jonnymick]

ok i understand im going to need to get a new lp fuel pump, the weber carb, a carb dizzy, the carb manifold, and im gonna need to remove most of the vac hoses. what hoses am i going to need to leave (i assume there will be one going from the dizzy to the carb, and a fuel line going to the carb, what else?) also, what do i do with the ecm? do i just remove it completely and the dizzy will function completely without it, and if so, where will i cut/"cap" it off at? how do i do whats asked above and is there anything else im missing?

[GeneralDisorder]

The SPFI engine has the wrong cams and the wrong compression for a carb setup. The timing will have to be retarded using the carb distributor. You'll lose performance and fuel economy due to the decrease in max advance. Pinging will be your new best friend. Carb distributors have a tendancy to wear out bushing and vacuum advance cans so it would be wise to have it rebuilt and recurved at the same time to get back some of the top-end advance.

 

The fuel pump will have to be changed, additionally the ground to the fuel pump relay will have to be rerouted around the ECU, and a revolution sensor (fuel pump control unit) installed to safely operate the pump. A carb filter will have to be installed before the fuel pump to prevent damage to the pump as the SPFI has a high-pressure filter in the engine bay. The HP filter will have to be removed and routed around.

 

The wiring for the carb ignition coil will have to be added, as well as a circuit for the choke.

 

Carb manifold obviously. Carb and adaptor plate if you use a Weber.

 

All-in-all - not worth it. Expensive proposition, poor performance, and the SPFI is vastly superior in every catagory. It's simple, rugged, cheap and easy to repair. That's why many of us who have tried all the various options multiple times end up converting carb vehicles to SPFI rather than the other way around.

 

GD

[jonnymick]

then does anyone know how i would gut the emissions system and keep my spfi? i HATE all of the hoses & stupid emissions junk on late 80's cars, and considering its 2 decades old it cracks and clogs and goes bad & im just sick of looking at it and working around it.

[GeneralDisorder]

There's nearly no emissions equipment on the SPFI. What exactly would you like to get rid of? There's the passive evap system but removing that would only get rid of a single solenoid (you would have to replace it with a 33 Ohm, 5 watt resistor), the charcoal canister, and leave you with a fuel smell as there would be nothing to trap fuel vapor from the tank on hot days.

 

The whole point of the SPFI is that it doesn't *need* extra emissions gear. It's ECU and sensors regulate fuel and timing so as not to require any "help" from extra junk. That's why they are much, much simpler than carbs of similar vintage. Not to mention more economical, and better driveability.

 

What you need, more than anything, is to LEARN how the system works, and what that "mess" does. Then you won't feel so lost and angry at that late-80's wonder of a fuel system you have. You'll be happy that it has nothing except what it needs to work - there's no extra stuff as on newer cars for the smog-testing nazi's, and there's no extra stuff as on older cars that needed it to perform at a decent level. It's just plain, simple, fuel injection without anything you "don't need".

 

GD

[jonnymick]

i dont buy it, ive owned many early 90's fuel injected cars that havent had nearly as many hoses as this thing does, they are running everywhere in places that i know i dont require them, like recirculating gasses that i could just let escape with a breather, there are far too many hoses for one measely injector to squirt, i understand a -few- of them may have to do with thinks such as the brake booster and timing advance (correct me if im wrong), but recirculating gasses to kiss the environments *** is none of my concern. i mean come on, theres like 40 flippin hoses, i can only see a purpose for like 10 of them max, when it comes to -needing- them for the computer to pulse the injector.

[GeneralDisorder]

i dont buy it, ive owned many early 90's fuel injected cars that havent had nearly as many hoses as this thing does, they are running everywhere in places that i know i dont require them, like recirculating gasses that i could just let escape with a breather, there are far too many hoses for one measely injector to squirt, i understand a -few- of them may have to do with thinks such as the brake booster and timing advance (correct me if im wrong), but recirculating gasses to kiss the environments *** is none of my concern. i mean come on, theres like 40 flippin hoses, i can only see a purpose for like 10 of them max, when it comes to -needing- them for the computer to pulse the injector.

 

As I said - you do not understand enough about the system. For example - you cannot allow blow-by gasses from the crankcase to "just escape". The air has already been metered by the MAF and must be recirculated to the intake or your mixture will be thrown off. The entire crankcase is part of the manifold vacuum system of the SPFI. If you just let it out via a breather you are creating a very, very large vacuum leak - poor idle quality, poor economy, ect.

 

That's actually one of those rather obscure items that people often overlook - the o-ring around the oil dip-stick can actually be a vacuum leak if it's hard or missing, ect.

 

You cannot just apply knowledge of carbs to an FI system. There are fundamental differences in their theory of operation.

 

And I'm not asking you to "buy" anything. I'm TELLING you how things are. I KNOW what I'm talking about. Not only have I installed many SPFI setups on previously carbed engines, but I've also built fuel injection systems from scratch with MegaSquirt and other aftermarket systems.

 

GD

[jonnymick]

lol, i have a big ball of tinfoil as my oil cap, do you think that might be it? the previous owner did this and i just havent messed with it because it hasnt caused me any problems as far as i know. i figured being related to the crankcase itself and not an open spot directly in the intake system, that it didnt/doesnt make a difference. am i incorrect in this assumption?

[GeneralDisorder]

i figured being related to the crankcase itself and not an open spot directly in the intake system, that it didnt/doesnt make a difference. am i incorrect in this assumption?

 

You are absolutely VERY wrong in that assumption. Any opening to the crankcase is a vacuum leak. It's a sealed system for exactly that reason. On a carb it wouldn't matter.... as it relates to vacuum leaks - proper blow-by gas removal is another subject entirely. And no - I'm not refering to environmental concerns.

 

You need to replace the missing cap, get a new rubber seal and properly adjust the tabs so it doesn't leak. Check the dip-stick o-ring as well, and make sure the PCV and all lines are clean.

 

GD

[idosubaru]

wow....awesome!!!!

 

i've seen even MPFI's that wouldn't run right until you reach higher RPM's due to an oil cap leak. definitley get yourself a new oil cap and they have a rubber oring/seal on them as well, replace that too.

 

i've removed some hoses (mostly coolant) from MPFI set ups. like the coolant hose to the throttle body, i've never had a problem doing that. the PCV hoses are annoying to look at, but best to leave them.

 

on an XT6 (6 cylinder ER27 MPFI) i've seen some people remove all the hoses from the valve covers (the PCV system hoses) and install breathers on the valve covers. don't think this would work on the EA82 though, they're more sensitive to opening up the system....any idea why that is GD?

[lordvec]

Hello,

my EA82 has already been converted to carburetor from MPFI, so there is no turning back.

GD, you say that "The timing will have to be retarded using the carb distributor." Can you be more specific? How can I do this? I do not a have a strobo lamp. The engine revs up OK, but I feel it lacks power. Consumption is around 19-22mpg (engine is fitted on a VW bus, bad aerodynamics, 1500kgs weight) with easy driving, mostly on highways. I do not know if this is OK. I get some backfire when I lift my foot from the accelerator pedal, but from what I've read here this is normal for these engines.

Is there anything else I should take care of?

 

Thank you