91 Loyale headlight switch question, help

[foxgap]

I think the headlight switch on the Loyale is going bad. The problem is every so often the dash lights go out and along with that the tailights. When the switch is moved to just parking lights everything comes back on. Switch back to headlights all goes dark again. This does not happen all the time. We leave the headlights on all the time as daytime running lights. Is replaceing the switch a major job that I can't do in my driveway or do I have to take it back down to Weddes Garage and have Craig do it?

 

Thanks in advance all, Mark

[msteel]

I think the headlight switch on the Loyale is going bad. The problem is every so often the dash lights go out and along with that the tailights. When the switch is moved to just parking lights everything comes back on. Switch back to headlights all goes dark again. This does not happen all the time. We leave the headlights on all the time as daytime running lights.

This could be the switch, but it also could be wiring elsewhere. I believe the connectors to the switch assemblies are relatively easy to get to by removing some trim from the steering column. You might want to check the switch before pulling it or having it pulled.

 

Is replaceing the switch a major job that I can't do in my driveway or do I have to take it back down to Weddes Garage and have Craig do it?

This all depends on your abilities. It is probably not too much more difficult than an oil change, but may be a little more involved. I have removed the switch from a parts car, and didn't need any special tools. But then I didn't care too much about messing some things up. If I remember correctly, the turn signal/lights stalk and the wiper stalk are all part of the same assembly, and you have to remove the steering wheel to remove/install it (here is where you're glad not to have airbags).

[foxgap]

I've been reading some threads from earlier cars and there seems to be some agreement on a bad relay also. Can anyone point me in the direction of the relays? It seems possible that the relay is heating up and causing an open circut. But sometimes the problem happens when the car is just started for a few moments.

 

Thanks again

[foxgap]

This morning right from start up the problem came up. Dim left headlight, no dash lights, no parking lights in the rear. Rotate the switch to just parking lghts and the dash comes back on and so do the parking lights in the rear.

Looks like I'm going to get a switch .....

[Cougar]

Before working on the switch I think you will find that the left relay for the lights is causing the trouble. The running lights run through this relay also. This a is pretty common problem.

 

The reason the running lights and dash lights turn on when you turn off the headlights is due to the lower voltage drop across the bad relay contacts when the extra current isn't needed for the headlights. The greater the amount of current is needed through a resistance, the more voltage will be dropped across the resistance. In this case it is the bad relay contacts which should have no resistance.

 

I think you will find the relay under the dash near the center. Look for a set of four relays close together. The left and right lighting relays are in the middle of the four I believe.

[foxgap]

Before working on the switch I think you will find that the left relay for the lights is causing the trouble. The running lights run through this relay also. This a is pretty common problem.

 

The reason the running lights and dash lights turn on when you turn off the headlights is due to the lower voltage drop across the bad relay contacts when the extra current isn't needed for the headlights. The greater the amount of current is needed through a resistance, the more voltage will be dropped across the resistance. In this case it is the bad relay contacts which should have no resistance.

 

I think you will find the relay under the dash near the center. Look for a set of four relays close together. The left and right lighting relays are in the middle of the four I believe.

 

Thanks Cougar, Now I know why you are called the Elite Master!!!!!

[Cougar]

You're welcome for the help. Let us know what you find out.

 

I forgot to mention you can check the voltage after the relays at fuses 7 and 8 in the dash fuse panel. You should see the left relay voltage on fuse 7 drop when you turn on the headlights.

[foxgap]

This morning before work I looked for and found the relays. The best way to get to them is take the 3 screws out of the fuse box and get it out of the way. The relays are behind and above the fuse box. I pulled the two center ones down and out and tapped on each until the tailights came on. That is one I will replace. My girlfriend is going to stop at the Subaru dealership this morning to get a new one. I hope they can find this quicker that they did the thermosat for the Legacy the other week, it took almost 20 min to locate it in the computer.....

 

Thanks again Cougar, the Loyale will stay on the road for a while longer.

 

Mark

[Cougar]

You're very welcome for the help Mark. Glad you got. I would have tapped on it also to find it though just pulling it out would have worked also to identify it. Thanks for letting us know the exact location of the relays. I have never had to replace one myself.

 

Drive on,

Glen

[Gloyale]

My girlfriend is going to stop at the Subaru dealership this morning to get a new one.

 

 

They will probably have a hard time looking it up. And they will want an arm and a leg for it.

 

Better to go to a pick a part Junkyard and walk around til you find a Subaru. Pull all four relays from under it's dash so you have extras. They are all the same. You'll get them all for 5 bucks.

[foxgap]

Karen picked up the relay from Ertle Subaru. Drum roll please..... $43.00.

I would have liked to go junkyarding and gone that route but there is no time for the next few weeks. That is why I do some of my repairs at 5:00 am before work.

 

I'll left you all know how things turn out tommorow morning.

 

Mark

[foxgap]

The $43.00 relay did not do the trick. With the new relay in place the situation is still the same, dim left headlight, dash out, tailights out. I did a little checking and it turns out that there is current passing over the tailights when the headlights are on, they are very dim. When the high beams are turned on the left headlight goes out completly. So I switched headlight bulbs, it made no difference. I also noticed that the one relay, I am thinking it is the one for the left side, does not get hot like all the other relays. So I am thinking that there is no power to that relay. I did not have time to check it with a tester, but I did switch the relays around hoping I got a bad one. No such luck, that one got hot and the other one cooled off. The plug on the cold relay is blue, the warm relay plug is white. I checked fuses #7 and #8 both are not blown. I have to check to see if there is power at the left headlamp fuse, I think it is #7. There is power at #8 cause when I changed the fuses I saw a spark when I plugged it in.

 

Ok gang now I am back to square one, need more suggestions as to where to look again. I got to get this thing back on the road cause on the way home tonght the Legacy got hot and wanted to boil over. New radiator and thermostat did not help it, so maybe the water pump is starting to go.

 

Oh the joys, Mark

[Cougar]

Since a replacement relay didn't work then the problem may be with the connector for the relay. You say one of the relays is getting hot and that leads me to think that may be the one that is having trouble. Did any of the lead connections on the old relay look like they got hot? That is a sign of a bad connection. Check the voltage across the larger wire leads going to the relay while the lights are on. A good connection will show very little voltage drop across the connection and no heat. You should also be able to check the voltage at fuses 7 and 8 with the lights on. You will most likely see the voltage on 7 is low due to the voltage drop across the bad connection. You can also identify the correct relay by monitoring the voltage at fuse 7. When you pull the correct one the voltage on fuse 7 will drop to zero.

 

Hopefully you are working on the correct relays. My info says the sockets are black, but this is for an '88.

[foxgap]

Since a replacement relay didn't work then the problem may be with the connector for the relay. You say one of the relays is getting hot and that leads me to think that may be the one that is having trouble. Did any of the lead connections on the old relay look like they got hot? That is a sign of a bad connection. Check the voltage across the larger wire leads going to the relay while the lights are on. A good connection will show very little voltage drop across the connection and no heat. You should also be able to check the voltage at fuses 7 and 8 with the lights on. You will most likely see the voltage on 7 is low due to the voltage drop across the bad connection. You can also identify the correct relay by monitoring the voltage at fuse 7. When you pull the correct one the voltage on fuse 7 will drop to zero.

 

Hopefully you are working on the correct relays. My info says the sockets are black, but this is for an '88.

 

 

All the connectors are in good shape Cougar, no discoloration. I'll start checking the other relays one at a time to see what they do.

[foxgap]

Some good news. I figured which relays do what. The relay with the black connector and the relay with the green connector are for the headlights. I now have dash lights and parking lights working. The left headlight is dim yet and no high beams. I am getting closer......

[Cougar]

Ok, you got the other lights working, good deal. It sounded like you working on the wrong relay. I am still wondering about the hot relay you mentioned as that doesn't sound normal to me.

 

The left headlight may be dim due to a connection problem at the light socket. This is a fairly common problem also so check the voltage at the connector to the light and see what you have there.

 

For the high beam trouble, see if they will work in the flash position. That should verify the ground connection through the switch, if that works. The problem is most likely within the switch connection for that trouble but it could be a pin connector connection problem also.

[foxgap]

Thanks Cougar. This morning Karen had to take the car to work. Right headlight is almost normal, Left headlight is dim, and the high beams work!. Little by little we are getting this problem fixed. When the car gets home tommorow I will start checking the plugs for the headlights for voltage and or corosion.

[Cougar]

You are welcome for the help. Glad to hear you are making progress.

 

I recommend you start the check by looking at the voltages on both fuses 7 and 8 with the headlights on, just to make sure the feed to the lights is correct. Place your meter probe in the little slit on top of the fuse and reference to ground. If the voltages are ok there then check the voltage at the connector to the lights, while it is connected to the lights and they are on, so you have a load on the wiring system. It is pretty common to have a bad connector at the light.