Guest jclay Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 Hi all, I've decided to replace the front O2 sensor on my 97 Legacy L 2.2, 5MTwith 180,000 miles on the clock, it is long past due, (In my head, I'm picturing everyone saying "he's got that right" and cringing) and the car has been running sluggishly lately, although I haven't had a CEL. I scanned the car anyway, but no codes were read. THe sluggishness is most evedent on hills and while trying to accelerate. At Hwy speeds, it isn't as pronounced, but is still there, kind of like the car seems to be laboring more then normal. My fuel economy has dropped slightly in the past several months, but not drastically. My first and most simple question...should I get a wrench on the O2 sensor from above, reaching down, or from below, navigating around the exhaust? Which is easiest? (I bought the OEM replacement O2 Sensor) Next, if the sluggishness remains, what else should I check? The air filter is new, the belts are fine, the plugs and wires were replaced recently, clutch is new, I used a fuel system cleaner in my current tank of gas, the car doesn't overheat...it does leak oil, which I keep and eye on. I've reset the ECU but it didn't make a difference... In my nighmares I've wondered if there may be something wrong with the tranny? but I haven't heard any suspicious noises, and don't have any trouble shifting, although there is play in the shifter itself. Would there be any early warnig signs of tranny woes? Torque bind? does it occur on a manual trans? all the search info i turned up seemed like it was more common on the automatics... sorry for the length of this post, I'm trying to get to the bottom of this because it's getting worrisome, especially as I'm starting a new job next week and don't want to have to worry about the car... As always, all thoughts and insights are greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance! Jared Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frag Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 In answer to your first question, I myself get an open wrench on the O2 sensor from above without too much difficulty. It all depends on your waist line... As for the play in the shifter, it more probably is a problem with the shifter lever linkages and not the tranny. Do you drive with your hand on the stick? Others will certainly help you with the sluggishness issue. But with the milage on your car, start with replacing the O2 sensor and see if it cures the problem. If not, you're welcome to get back to this board. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 How's your fuel filter? I only mention it because I changed mine last weekend and noticed an immediate difference in performance. And it's so easy on a Subaru (unlike my wife's Maxima, which I'm doing today!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 an O2 sensor is a good start, but if you have tired plugs, nothing is going to help. Do a full tuneup NGK Plugs Subaru Wires Fuel Filter PCV valve When was the timing belt last changed (curious). Then we have a good starting point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 do your O2 sensor from underneath. including the standard engine tune up stuff, change the transmission gear oil. brakes are huge, i find EJ brakes tend to be more sticky and troublesome than the older XT6 brakes i frequently play with. i've seen mileage go up 2-4 mpg after a proper brake job. the adjective "proper" is important. have you had any recent brake work done and if so did they regrease the caliper slide pins? that should always be done on every single brake job, but it's an easy step to forgo by mechanics getting paid "per job". unless you specifically ask there's no way to ensure that it was done. i'd pull both front and rear calipers up and regrease the slides with brake caliper grease. then of course go ahead and replace any pads that need replaced. keep an eye on your tires, particularly the fronts. if you see any uneven wear over time, get an alignment done. now, don't go do it just to do it because alignments are a big joke really. hundreds of thousands of people a year are paying for alignments they don't need. but...tire wear tells you if you need it or not, so keep an eye on those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frag Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 do your O2 sensor from underneath. Not everybody (it's my case) has the place required to jack a car and put it on stands. That's why it's good to know it can easily be done from above and with no special tool. Did it twice on my car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 Not everybody (it's my case) has the place required to jack a car and put it on stands. That's why it's good to know it can easily be done from above and with no special tool. Did it twice on my car. Like me, if i cant do it on ramps, im forced to pay for the work to be done. Though after 50 years i think my dirt driveway is faily well packed down. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 Not everybody (it's my case) has the place required to jack a car and put it on stands. That's why it's good to know it can easily be done from above and with no special tool. Did it twice on my car.my bad, i didn't realize anyone replied to that! i replied based on the way i did it last, but i was already underneath doing something else. something in my memory hinted that there's one configuration (engine/trans/4wd?) out there that isn't accessible from the top but maybe i'm mistaken on that or maybe it's an old gen model...or none!? top it is. even from the bottom, at least on some you essentially have to reach through and do it from inside the engine bay from the bottom anyway due to the ridges on the exhaust so from up top seems like a big winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jclay Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 Hi, Original poster here, thanks to all who have replied so far...to answer some of the questions that have come up within the thread, the fuel filter was changed in august, and the plugs and wires were done last july. I've changed the gear oil within the last year, but didn't record exactly when. In January, I replaced the front rotors and pads, and am actually getting a rubbing kind of noise from the front left tire, however, I pulled the wheel off and inspected everything again without seeing any signs of wear. I'll take a look at all the brakes tomorrow, and see if anything catches my eye. Stands to reason that a caliper not releasing the brakes all the way could lead to sluggishness! Once I've changed the O2 sensor and checked the brakes, I'll post the results...thanks for all advice past, present, and future! Jared Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jclay Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 Oh, couple more things that I missed with my last post...I have changed the PCV valve, but have never done anything with the timing belt...I'm not the original owner, so I can't say for sure if it's ever been done... Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 Oh, couple more things that I missed with my last post...I have changed the PCV valve, but have never done anything with the timing belt...I'm not the original owner, so I can't say for sure if it's ever been done... Thanks again! eek nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 In January, I replaced the front rotors and pads, if the caliper pins weren't cleaned and greased properly (brake caliper grease only), then this needs to be done. at this age and mileage both pins on all 4 calipers need to be checked. all of the ones i get into (2 in the past couple weeks), they're in bad shape. but have never done anything with the timing belt eek this is the spoken language of accomplished automotive experts who are shocked into unresponsiveness. this is an interference engine and the timing belt is a replacement item (every 60,000 miles on this vehicle). if the timing belt breaks....you'll be either needing an entirely new motor or very expensive repairs on your existing motor. you've actually got a great motor, one of Subaru's best in a very simple, reliable, and safe vehicle (that's why my wife drives the same thing). it will last a long time if you take care of it. my best advice is to think of the soonest possible time you can have the belt replaced and do it a little bit sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 [...]THe sluggishness is most evedent on hills and while trying to accelerate. At Hwy speeds, it isn't as pronounced, but is still there, kind of like the car seems to be laboring more then normal. My fuel economy has dropped slightly in the past several months, but not drastically.[...]You've already gotten some good advice, and replaced some appropriate parts. One other thing I can think of that fits the symptoms is a partially restricted exhaust system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 You've already gotten some good advice, and replaced some appropriate parts. One other thing I can think of that fits the symptoms is a partially restricted exhaust system. Ah yes, get yourself a 19.00 vacume gauge, it will instantly telll you if its clogged or not. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jclay Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 Hello, original poster again... Thanks for all the advice! I tried to do the O2 sensor today, but couldn't get it to budge, I'm going to take the car to my mechanic tomorrow to have him drive it and see what he thinks about the timing belt, and hopefully get that done asap per the advice recieved, I'll have him do the O2 sensor at the same time. I did a search on the timing belt replacement, and from a cost of labor point of view, it would seem best to have the water pump and all the seals done as well...any thoughts on a ballpark price estimate? Please let me know, and thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 subaru dealer north of baltimore quoted $699 to my cousin two years ago just for the belt. what a rip off, i did it for cost of parts...which ended up being $200-$300 since i replaced everything, water pump, a pulley or two and belt. expect $400-$700 i'd say depending on what all is done and labor rates (they vary a lot)...water pump, pulleys, seals, etc. personally i'd go with an ebay timing belt kit and get all new pulleys as well. you are almost guaranteed to need at least one pulley in my experience (most likely the lower cogged pulley), they get noisey and loose grease. they will break your timing belt if they seize (and they do not discriminate between new and old belts when they do). or have him inspect them and replace any that are noisey.....i think they run $80-$120 for each pulley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 LAst time i had it done that was 750, and it included the belt, the seals, water pump and the tensioner nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jclay Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Hello, original poster back again... I took the car to my mech. today, and based on the fact that other then the sluggishness, the car was running smoothly, he suggested that I replace the fuel filter, even though I had just done so back in July...I did so, and the symptoms are gone. If anyone is still following this thread, any thoughts on how to loosen the O2 sensor, which I bought and still want to replace? I tried the other day, sprayed it with PB blaster, and got a wrench on it, but it wouldn't budge, and I didn't want to break anything...thoughts? My unemployment ends tomorrow! once I'm back on my feet, I'm going to get the timing belt taken care of! Thanks again to everyone who chimed in! Always much appreciated! Happy Cinco De Mayo! Jared Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 any thoughts on how to loosen the O2 sensor, One suggestion I seem to remember is to wrench it loose while it's still hot. Worked for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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