'98 OBW engine replacement

[ryanw]

I bought a '98 OBW two weeks ago and have driven it 2 days

 

It had 183,000 on it, but the previous owner told me the head gasket and a complete valve job were done at 155,000. It looked nice and test drove fine. However, after the 2 hour highway drive home, it overheated as I was pulling into my garage. "Great," I thought, "but at least a cooling problem shouldn't be too expensive to fix." Next day when I got to work it overheated and the upper radiator hose blew. I got a new hose, drove it home and changed the thermostat. Previous owner had gutted the thermostat... Now things are starting to look worse. Well, it still overheated have thermostat and radiator flush, and I started looking around and found I had every symptom of the head gasket, uggh. "Could be worse things to have to fix," I thought. Pulled the engine and found the block was warped .0025" to .003", right where the gasket failed. I took the heads to the shop before I checked the block and they had to machine off .006". I'm guessing they machined them before, so I would probably be pushing clearances/tolerances really close if I have the block resurfaced as well (plus I think tearing it down or having someone do it for me might cost just as much as a used engine). It had the newer MLS gasket on it. Obviously, they must not have checked the block last time around, or done something wrong for the new gasket to last less than 30,000 miles. Well, that's all she wrote for this engine

 

So now I need a new one. I've read on here that the older 2.2's can be used to replace the 2.5's. What modifications are needed for this? How much should I expect to pay for a used 2.2?

 

This is a great board and my first post. Too bad under these circumstances. I look forward to being a member of this board. I do like Subarus (got 290,000 on my last one). Thanks in advance for any help!

[davebugs]

2.2 swap - definately. I was apprehensive at first. Everything bolts up (if you get a 95 2.2 auto that will have the EGR and dual port exhaust). Minor vacum line issues is all.

 

I usually pay about 300-350 (depending on miles) to have one delivered with a warranty.

 

Dave

[ryanw]

Great! Thanks!

 

So all I will need is maybe some new vaccum hoses? All the electric adapters, mounts, and flywheel-to-torque converter connections are the same?

 

Any good websites I should check to buy one of the 2.2's?

 

Are the 95's the only ones that will work as easily?

[davebugs]

Other more experienced folks will chime in.

 

A 95 auto 2.2 is the best choice all the way around.

 

car-part.com

 

You may need a few vacuum line splice thingeys (M-M) or some new line - like 1/8" but probably metric. Other than that the breather hoses from the heads to the airbox - I forget the exact combination.

 

You'll need the flexplate off the 2.5.

 

Dave

[ryanw]

On car-part.com, do I need to ask for quotes, or am I searching wrong? When I search for 1995 Subaru Legacy Engine the cheapest that comes up is ~$750

 

By 95 auto, I assume you mean 95 automatic transmission (just want to make sure)

[davebugs]

car-part is best (and most convenient) in my area. I see that your prices are higher than here in the rustbelt. Perhaps someone closer to you will chime in. Perhaps there is a better way to search for parts in your area.

 

I'd look thru the USMB for sale section.

 

A used 2.2 with new TB, WP, etc is still gonna be way less expensive and dependable than a used 2.5 unless you spend the money to get the HG's etc done as well in my opinion.

 

Dave

[idosubaru]

yes he means a 95 automatic transmission.

 

search for 96-98 EJ22's as well, it's best to expand your market to lower the price and increase availability particularly in a subaru light market (like yours may be?).

 

if you use a 96-98 EJ22 it can be from either a manual or automatic and you'll just need to get the exhaust header with it (it will bolt right up to your existing EJ25 exhaust system). this would be my preferred method, it's a more common engine and newer. although keep in mind the 97 and 98 models are interference engines (as was your EJ25) so you'll want to make positively sure that the timing belt and all the pulleys are in great condition. if the belt breaks you'll have engine damage.

 

and...if you're having problems finding any close enough at a decent price, then you could also search for 1990-1994 EJ22's as well to see what mileage/prices are available. if you find one of those, you'll need to also buy a 1995-1998 intake manifold though as the pre-1995 intakes are different and not OBDII compliant.

 

1995 from an automatic

1996-1998 with exhaust header (this is what i would prefer personally)

pre-1995 and a 1995+ intake manifold

[skibumm]

I bought a '98 OBW two weeks ago and have driven it 2 days

 

It had 183,000 on it, but the previous owner told me the head gasket and a complete valve job were done at 155,000. !

 

 

I just went though the same thing on a 97 OBW I bought.

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=85831

 

The problem I heard about doing the HG on the 2.5 is some will last a long time or others will last maybe 30k and need redone again. Look like this is the case for yours. I put a 2.2 from a 95 in mine, but I think you will need the Y pipe from a 95 as I think yours has a single port exhaust, were the 95 has dual port heads.

 

One thing I did when I bought my 2.2 engine through car-parts.com was to ask for the VIN number of the car it was out of, then I ran a Car Fax on it, I was lucky enough to find a 2.2 that had a complete service history and had just had the 90K service work done on it 800 miles before it was wrecked, which meant it had a new timing belt. So far so good for the new engine and the only seals I put in was the rear main and oil separator plate. $400.00 here for mine.

[msmithmmx]

Going to make this simple for you as I have done the 2.5 to 2.2 on a Legacy Outback. I recommend the 2.2 swap any day of the week.

I am actually in the middle of a 2.5 head gasket replacement and I can tell you that when its all done I will have spent 300 to 400 in machine work and seals.

 

From the donor car (450 dollars tops)

 

1) Engine / use the exhaust manifold from the 2.2 donor

2) AC Compressor you must keep and hoses from your 2.5 mount onto the 2.2

This is if you remove the compressor, I like it out of the way during the swap.

3) Metal Power steering lines from the 2.5 move them over

4) The fly-wheel from the 2.5 will have to be moved over to the 2.2.

 

From Subaru

1) All new exhaust gaskets (10 dollars)

2) new o-rings for the AC hoses you disconnect

3) new o-rings for the power steering lines you disconnect

 

From Walmart

1) 2 cans of 12 oz refrigerant and a refill hose (30 bucks)

 

While you are at it replace this on the 2.2 donor (100 bucks) an easy to do with the engine out.

1) Harmonic balancer (50 ebay)

2) AC and Alternator belts (20 pepboys)

3) Rear cam seal (5 dollars)

4) Oil Separator Plate (sure to be leaking, original is plastic) (15 dollars)

5) Rear main seal. (20 dollars)

6) Spark Plugs (10 dollars)

7) PCV Valve ( 8 dollars)

8) Valve cover gaskets (2 of these) and grommets for the bolts (30 dollars)

9) Reseal the oil-pan and replace both gaskets that are internal. (RTV temp sealer 4 bucks, gaskets are 10 bucks)

[ryanw]

Either I didn't mark something well, or the 2.2 intake has some extra vaccum hoses that were not on the 2.5 I had. Can someone take a look at these pictures and let me know what they think?

 

This first one is a picture of the 2.5 intake I took off. It has a hose that just loops around and connects back to another line. However, in the 2.2 intake, this hose has a T-connector in it with an 18 inch or so hose hanging off of it that I am not sure where it connects:

 

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/photos/showphoto.php?photo=20463&size=big&cat=500&ppuser=25315

 

 

This second picture is of the fuel tank purge that came with the 2.2 Engine. I dont remember seeing one on the 2.5. It has two lines coming in the bottom, and one on the top that I do not know where to connect it:

 

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/photos/showphoto.php?photo=20462&size=big&cat=500&ppuser=25315

 

Let me know if you need more photos, and thanks for the help. Almost done with it!

[hankosolder2]

The second picture is a charcoal canister, and I believe the hose at the bottom is a vent- the hose just tucks away into a grommet passing through the inner fender liner.

 

There are two ways of dealing with this; you can eliminate the charcoal canister (a 2.5 car has a charcoal canister mounted somewhere at the back of the car) or you can mount the 2.2 charcoal canister and have two.

 

My memory is a bit fuzzy, but don't forget the hose which runs to the MAP sensor on the passenger's side firewall.

 

Just follow the vacuum hose diagram on the hood and make the car match it- you will have to trace out a couple of the metal lines to figure out how to do it.

 

If you get jammed up, I may be able to shoot some photos of my swapped car.

 

Nathan

[bheinen74]

my favorite junkyard charges 100 buck a ej22 if you pull it, and thats AS IS NO WARRANTY

figured if the one i pulled today is no good, i will just go get another one.

I might start hording the lower mileage engines for my future plans to acquire all the outbacks around when they blow the HG, and i can swap/flip them.

[davebugs]

I believe the above poster is correct. I sold the car and my memory isn't that great. The canister I'd probably do without. I doubt there is the place to attach it to the inner fender/frame rail on the passenger side between the radiator and the engine.

 

The other vacuum hose I plain forget myself. Perhaps mine didn't have it - I used a 95 2.2 auto. I forget what you used as a donor.

 

Wish I could remember and I don't have any pics. Perhaps if you zoomed out on the first pic it would jog my memory.

 

I'm betting that one of the folks more firmiliar will jump in and be able to assist you though. Like I said my only issues were minor issues with vacuum and breather lines and it appears that's the only issues that you're having.

 

Dave

[davebugs]

my favorite junkyard charges 100 buck a ej22 if you pull it, and thats AS IS NO WARRANTY

figured if the one i pulled today is no good, i will just go get another one.

I might start hording the lower mileage engines for my future plans to acquire all the outbacks around when they blow the HG, and i can swap/flip them.

 

I gotta tell you that when I replace Saturn motors I tear them down for science sake and seperate the metals. I get about 100 bucks for the cast aluminum alone. Then I throw the crank and stuff in the next car that I take in.

 

WIth scrap prices some yards charge 100+ for a core.

 

I'd stock up if you have some space. I've been thinking of doing the same. Except I've never pulled one at a yard. Like I say I can usually get good ones delivered with a warranty for 300-350. So I haven't bothered pulling one myself. Also PaP's are relatively new around here and several of them are getting pretty pricey.

 

I don't know how long it would take me to get one out at a JY. At home I have a lift. That lower left engine/trans bolt would have to be a lot of fun laying under the car at a JY.

 

Dave

[ryanw]

No vacuum diagram on the hood, and none in the Haynes manual that I can find either. Can someone post one? Do I need a 2.2 diag, or 2.5? This is '95 2.2 engine. How many vacuum lines are external to the intake? I didn't remove the intake, so all those were never changed.

 

The symptom is:

 

When I start the engine, its idle jumps to around 2,000 rpm and stays there. If I quickly put it in gear, then everything is fine and I can drive with no problems. If I let it set for a 10-30 seconds, then the engine will cut back (sound like its going to die) and either:

 

1. Die

2. Run very rough, like its missing

3. Idle just fine at 600-800

 

OBD codes:

P0507 - Idle control system RPM high

P1507 - Manf. Cntrl. Veh.Spd Idle Speed Control Auxiliary Inputs

 

 

Since the swap is done, I'm creating a new thread to tackle this problem:

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?p=734045#post734045

[ryanw]

After triple checking the vacuum connections (still couldn't find a diagram)... I decided to troubleshoot other idling trouble causes. After searching on this forum, I found that the PCV valve, IAC, and T/B were the 3 things concerning idling. I decided to check the PCV valve first, as it seemed easiest. The inside plate was clear at the top and was heavily gunked up. I pushed it down with a small allen wrench. I cleared codes and started the car and it idled normally... no codes! I drove it a bit, starting is several times and each time it started normally. Previously, it would shoot up to 2,000+ RPM's on every start. So I went and got a new valve and swapped them out. It ran fine for the rest of the day, but when I started cold the next morning, it shot up to 2,200 RPM for a minute or so then died and threw the CEL again. Discouraged, I drove to work. It "kind of" did the same thing at lunch, except it didn't die after the high initial idle, it just went to normal idle and stayed there. Then the rest of the day, it was normal idle at startup. So I decided to clean the IAC.... I poured some seafoam down intake tube for the IAC. She ran real rough while doing this and died once... and they were right, it will smoke A LOT for 10-15 minutes... glad I read that part first, lol. Now the first couple days after the cleaning, I have not had any more problems.... So I think my swap is complete now. Thanks for everyone's help!

[idosubaru]

awesome good job. wouldn't be a bad idea to get a Subaru PCV valve while it's on your mind. after markets sometimes cause problems.

[ryanw]

What gas mileage should I expect with a 95 ej22 in a 98 OBW? The guy I bought the engine from had it in a 98 OBW and said he would get 26 mpg on the highway. I get about 20-23 mpg... highway or city driving, neither seem to make much difference. I had it into the dealer for tires and had them check everything out and they said everything tested good and that 20-23 mpg was what they would expect the smaller ej22 to get in a 98 obw. Just wanted to follow up and see what you guys thought.

[idosubaru]

My EJ25 to EJ18 Swapped Legacy LSi (Auto FWD) gets around 26 daily driving to work and 32 on the highway with this gutless EJ18. i'd expect more with an EJ22 given the mountains i have to contend with and the way it downshifts more often.

 

But your outback is taller, with a roofrack and AWD.

 

keep in mind if your "highway" mileage includes 75-80 mph then that's probably you're problem. drop to 60 and your mileage will go up drastically.

 

our EJ22 Impreza OBS gets best around 27 mpg highway - AWD automatic. that's with roofrack. that's probably reduced some with the winter blend of gas. you EJ22'ed wagon should get close to that for highway mileage. weight makes little difference with highway gas mileage. make the same trip empty or with 700 pounds of gear and you'll get the same mileage on road trips (been there, done that). so their weight argument holds no water. it would if it couldn't hold speed or was downshifting all the time, but i doubt that's the case.

 

but...with winter blends mileages are all being reduced. i'd think you should get 25 mpg, less if you're doing 70/80 mph.

 

so...there's really a lot of variables...and we haven't talked about tune up, miles, and condition of vehicle yet either.

Edited December 1, 2008 by grossgary