subyrally Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 i am trying to figure out why my brat wont start, it gets spark and air, but looks like its not getting fuel. i suspected the pump might be the issue. i tried listening to it while turning the key to prime the system and nothing happened. i then followed by testing the voltage at the plug when the key it turned, i got a whole .5V spike for about a second when the key turned. i guess what i am trying to figure out is what the voltage should be at the pump. i am guessing it should be 12V.. anyone have an idea of what might be causing the issue? i hope its something simple that i can get figured out before next weekend, i really want to take it to the carlisle show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstaru Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 it is very possible that the fuel pump relay is toast.up under the dash behind the fuse box.first relay from the front.see if it clicks when you turn the ignition on.cheers, brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subyrally Posted May 7, 2008 Author Share Posted May 7, 2008 cool, i forgot about the relays. i sohuld have a few spares in my parts stashes. another thing i am trying to figure out, on the paseger side there the front of the seat mounts, the harness branches off to connect to the parking brake switch and the 4wd hi/lo switch. there are like three other plugs on that harness, i think one goes to the seat belt latch, but the other plugs i have no idea. also, any idea what is the round thing that is bolted to the back of the cab almost dead center just above the trans tunnel? its a silver round "thing" with i think 5 wires going into it. i honestly have no idea what htat might be. but it does look like its meant to be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Do believe those plugs are for power window controls. The rather large relay is the Stop Lamp checker. Lites the "Stop Lamp" on the dash if one of the stop lamps goes out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backwoodsboy Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 FYI Tim.... my brat has its fuel pump wired straight to an ignition-switched 12V+ wire. Never had any problems. I also have an extra carby-fuel pump and/or fuel pump RELAY if you DO need em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subyrally Posted May 7, 2008 Author Share Posted May 7, 2008 FYI Tim.... my brat has its fuel pump wired straight to an ignition-switched 12V+ wire. Never had any problems. I also have an extra carby-fuel pump and/or fuel pump RELAY if you DO need em. im going to take a look at it tonight, if i do need it, ill let you know. ill have to pay you at carlisle though, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subyrally Posted May 8, 2008 Author Share Posted May 8, 2008 well, i tried to test the pump by running some test leads from the pump plug to a slightly dead battery. the pump didnt purr like what im used to with mpfi pumps, it kinda ticked, but the battery was only putting out about 10.4V... ive got the other battery thats in the car on the charger right now. i also checked the relay under the dash, when i turned the key, the one on the left clicked. i tihnk that was the pump relay. as for the fuel pump ontrol module, its there, kinda just hanging by the harness since i had to remove it when i was starting my rust repair. i honestly dont know how to test that though. im getting to the point that id like to just pay someone to make it work, but that requires money i dont have, and time during the week to set that up, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subyrally Posted May 8, 2008 Author Share Posted May 8, 2008 another thing ive noticed it that even when i tried to jump the pump and crank the engine, it looks like there is no fuel getting to the carb, but then again, i am not sure since i dont know carbs well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferox Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 I'm not sure on the Carter-Weber carbs, but the Hitachi carbs have a little round window on the driver's side of the carb. You will probably have to take off the air cleaner to see it very well. It allows you to look into the float chamber. There is a little dot in the center of the window, your fuel level should be close to that dot. If you can't see fuel there, you may not be getting gas to the carb, or you have float issues. You can also disconnect your fuel line from the carb, put the end of it in a container of some kind, jump the pump, and see if you get gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subyrally Posted May 9, 2008 Author Share Posted May 9, 2008 thanks for the tip I'm not sure on the Carter-Weber carbs, but the Hitachi carbs have a little round window on the driver's side of the carb. You will probably have to take off the air cleaner to see it very well. It allows you to look into the float chamber. There is a little dot in the center of the window, your fuel level should be close to that dot. If you can't see fuel there, you may not be getting gas to the carb, or you have float issues. You can also disconnect your fuel line from the carb, put the end of it in a container of some kind, jump the pump, and see if you get gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subyrally Posted May 9, 2008 Author Share Posted May 9, 2008 ok, checked the window, fuel is right at the middle of the dot., i pulled the fuel line off the carb and put it in a can, it took a few tried, but it started spitting out fuel. think it just needed to get the fuel from the tank to the engine side. after i reattached the line, i tried cranking it a few times, same result, just drained the battery. the carb is still dry inside, and smells of old gas where the line is pushing the new gas. i think the carb might have crud clogged in it it needs cleaned, but i dont know everythig under the hood of this car yet and i dont want to screw it up anymore than it already is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky92 Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 Timmy..have you tried shooting starting fluid straight into the carb to try and start it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subyrally Posted May 9, 2008 Author Share Posted May 9, 2008 Timmy..have you tried shooting starting fluid straight into the carb to try and start it? it runs like a raped ape with start sauce:burnout: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky92 Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 That sounds like the carb is good...have you tried hot wiring the fuel pump to a battery..take the line off and see if it runs directly wired to the battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaingoatgruff Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 it took a few tried, but it started spitting out fuel. so is that to mean that your pump was pumping with power from the relay and the "in" line disconnected from the carb? if so, then i would think the problem is in the carb. otherwise, like bucky said, that's the next thing to check. and do hotwire it to a good battery as that will allow you to isolate the problem further. if it pumps well hotwired but not with the car's wiring replace the pump relay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subyrally Posted May 9, 2008 Author Share Posted May 9, 2008 right-o, ill have to try that when i get home from work tonight. i just hope the rain lets up tonight so that i can try to work on it again tonight. i hate working in wet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subyrally Posted May 11, 2008 Author Share Posted May 11, 2008 i replaced the pump today, but it still wont start. the old pump was definatly buggered. looking at the carb, at least at the window, its getting fuel. yesterday the level was just at the dot, after i changed the pump and tried to start it, the level is nearly to the top of the window, about half way between the dot and the top of the window anyway. i am thinking that there might be some crud built up from the car sitting so long and also being run at such a low fuel level the last time it was run. my friend mentioned that the accelerator pump might be rotted from sitting for so long. i guess it wouldnt hurt to get it rebuilt, especially since it doesnt look like i can get em new, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaingoatgruff Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 i got a "reman'ed" carb from carb. exchange online before i put spfi on my hatch. i didn't get the right one cuz i didn't know what year my engine was but besides that the thing was very poorly rebuilt, if rebuilt at all. these carbs aren't easy rebuilds and they're obviously extremely tempermental so be real careful about who you let mess with it or who you buy one from. maybe you could try shooting some carb cleaner into the bowl inlet while cranking just so there's some vac to pull it through... just an idea, i know those things are big bucks and a severe pain in the arse! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatchsub Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 cough WEBER cough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subyrally Posted May 11, 2008 Author Share Posted May 11, 2008 cough WEBER cough you got one with the adaptor for me? id love to run a webber on it until i can finish my turbo engine that i am working on, but at the moment, its a bit out of my price range i havent even got my first paycheck yet and its basicaly spent already:lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaingoatgruff Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 i didn't want to suggest a weber swap cuz i figured cash would be the determining factor. i only did the spfi swap cuz i figured out the math and it was cheaper *in theory* than replacing the hitachi and all the various parts related to it that were toast as well... things have proven otherwise, but that's okay, i love my hatch even more now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subyrally Posted May 11, 2008 Author Share Posted May 11, 2008 yeah, even though i am now working again, i still have to be mindful of what i spend. personally, id love to convert to fuel injection, but for hte time being, i need to just get the car running reliably. some how, i need to do it before saturday. i have a friend that is a mechanic that said that he will rebuild the carb for me, but sofar, its getting hard to find the kits for it in the stores. i have to try to find somewhere that can get it same day or the next day by the latest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaingoatgruff Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/82-89-SUBARU-1-6-1-8-SOHC-HITACHI-Carb-Kit-Royze_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247QQcategoryZ33551QQihZ019QQitemZ290070248695QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V i talked to the seller when i was looking to rebuild my carb and he says he has kits for most models and years of subaru hitachis. also, i've used niehoff, bosch, and royze kits before and royze kits usually are the most complete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subyrally Posted May 11, 2008 Author Share Posted May 11, 2008 well, i actually managed to get a carb rebuild kit and a new float ordered up today, i should have em by tuesday... i was worried that i wouldnt be able to get a replacement for all the parts, but it looks like the kits come with everything i need. ive heard that people generally have good luck with the gp-sorensen kits. just beware if you go to advance auto parts, they have a good price on the rebuild kit, but the float is about twice the price of everyone else, at least in my area. make sure that you shop around before you buy. i just ope that i can get the parts and get the carb rebuilt and the engine running in time for carlisle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subyrally Posted May 11, 2008 Author Share Posted May 11, 2008 hmmm, just wondering, could the anti diesel valve cause the fuel to not make it through the carb? the original owner had a brand new valve in still in the box with the brat when i got it. i cant remember why he said that he got it, but i think he said that he had fixed the issue that caused him to get it in the first place. ive got the carb parts on the way, should have everything by tuesday, but i am getting a little worried that i might not be able to get it running in time. i guess i am just paranoid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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