Advantages of VDC Subaru Outback? Why commanding such premiums?

[mountainwalker]

I’m hot on the trail to purchase a used Subaru Outback in very good condition, which has had a solid maintenance record. I’ve been gathering information on Edmunds and CarTalk forums and then was referred to this excellent community by a poster on CarTalk. I’ve got a little extra work to do as I’m searching for a car in Silicon Valley a few weeks before relocating for the summer from New York – I’d like to have any necessary maintenance done before arriving in a few weeks. This means I have to evaluate the car by having it inspected by 1-2 reliable garages, and maybe even hiring a local Subaru enthusiast with good experience to take a quick look after inspection.

 

I'm noticing that VDC (Vehicle Dynamics Control) Outbacks seems to be commanding serious premiums on Craigslist and KBB. What advantages does this model offer? How much of a premium is it worth? Which model years was it available?

 

Thanks again for all the great advice, USMB is a great community, very glad to have found today.

[aircraft engineer]

I can't tell you what years they are in but I DID see an impressive video report on the effects of having it "on" or "off" a couple of years ago.

 

What it does is calculate how fast each wheel is turning in a turn and then adjust brakes as necessary wheel by wheel to maintain a steady track. They didn't say if there were accelerometers in the system so other than wheel speed I don't know how it works - but the video was impressive - pound into curves and no oversteer. if it understeers, just turn the wheel a bit more - the computer will take care of it.

 

Remember, though - just another piece of electronics to have to fix sometime

[mountainwalker]

Because it is another failure point, have there been any issues with VDC failing during use?

[nipper]

There is a lot of computer power involved in making it work. It uses the wheel speed sensors, at least one accelormeter, steering wheel angle inout, and (here is the pricey part) the ABS to apply the brakes to the indivdual wheels to take corrective action.

 

On the plus side, all these new widgets do make a (viscous) LSD rear diff unecessary.

 

http://www.driveperformance.subaru.com/version5_1/blueprint.asp

 

Granted thats a wrx, but it gives you some idea.

 

And from the tribecca web site

 

"Integrated with VTD All-Wheel Drive, standard VDC stability control utilizes sensors which constantly monitor wheel speed, steering angle, brake pressure, vehicle yaw rate and lateral g-forces. If VDC detects a difference between the driver's intended path and the one the vehicle is actually taking, VDC applies braking power and/or reduces engine torque to help correct vehicle path."

 

SO they are probably all the same.

 

 

nipper

[EVOthis]

http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/VarNov06EW.pdf ......might be of some help....

[bulwnkl]

I thought the VDC vehicles were higher priced mostly because they're higher-content vehicles to begin with. In the model year range you're looking at, the VDC only came with the 6-cylinder engine AFAIK. So, you have a bigger, more powerful motor, no head gasket (or timing belt) issues, and higher content. That's why they're more expensive. Am I wrong about this, guys?

[EVOthis]

excellant suggestion.....that would be the outback to get......little more power.....dual timing chains i believe which dont have a scheduled replacement interval.......and the sporty logo H6 3.0.....

[jamal]

If it is a VTD outback, you get a much better awd system. Instead of little clutches that sort of lock up to transfer power rearward you get a fancy planetary center diff thingy that is a lot better at sending torque to the rear.

[mountainwalker]

This is what VDCdriver posted on Cartalk forums in response to my question:

 

"If you are considering a 4-cylinder Outback, I would recommend that you not look at anything prior to the 2002 model year. After 2002, the engines appear to not suffer from the head gasket problems that were typical of the '96-'01 models once they got past ~ 110k.

 

On the other hand, I can strongly recommend all model years ('01 to present) of the 6-cylinder Outbacks. The 6 is an incredibly powerful engine, has a timing CHAIN (rather than the timing belt that has to be replaced on the 4-cylinder model at 105k), and has proven to be essentially trouble-free.

 

Comparing my '97 4 cylinder Outback with my '02 6 cylinder Outback, I can tell you that I have only given up ~1 mpg with the 6, and I enjoy the much lower noise levels and the safety factor of the VERY strong acceleration when it is needed. The acceleration of a 4-cylinder Outback is best described as "adequate", while the 6 borders on awesome.

 

As to VDC, I do have that feature on my Outback, and it is very effective at preventing skidding and sliding of the rear end on slippery turns. And, if any Outback that you are considering is still equipped with the original Bridgestone Potenza RE-92 tires, I can tell you that you need every advantage that you can get on a slippery surface. Those Potenza RE-92s are the absolute worst tires on a winter road surface that I have ever experienced.

 

On my '02 Outback, the VDC feature only came on the 6-cylinder model that I drive. While it has lately become available as an option on the 4 cylinder model, it is possible that VDC continued to be available only with the 6 cylinder model for a few years after '02, and that might account for the large price differential that you are seeing for VDC-equipped Outbacks. On the brand new models, VDC only costs something like $400. as an option, but on earlier models, it likely cost more, or was only available in combination with the 6 cylinder engine."

 

Sounds like the 6 cylinder 2002 is indeed a desirable model to go after.

[mountainwalker]

Can anyone who has driven a 6 cylinder Subaru Outback with VDC and without, comment on the handling of each?

 

We're looking to pick up a 6 cylinder LL Bean or VDC 00-02 Outback (though VDC was only available 01-02). If we pick up a 6 cylinder without VDC, will the handling be much worse?

 

Prefer a VDC edition from what I've read, but not sure how many may be available in the market locally 01-02. If not enough decent ones available, may have to consider LL Bean 6 cylinder.

[Cougar]

I have owned a '01 LL Bean since it was new and I can say that it is by far the best Subaru I have owned and also the most expensive. It handles great. I doubt you will be able tell any difference in handling compared to a VDC.

[mountainwalker]

I have owned a '01 LL Bean since it was new and I can say that it is by far the best Subaru I have owned and also the most expensive. It handles great. I doubt you will be able tell any difference in handling compared to a VDC.

 

Thanks Cougar, that's good to hear. Have you always driven it in Alaska? Inspires confidence. From everything I've read and asked about the Subaru Outback, and my own experienced with a 4 cylinder Volvo and 4 cylinder rent-a-cars, I'm only interested in the H6 Outbacks. Including LL Bean H6s expands the pool as there aren't that many VDCs out there 01-03. Have you also driven an H6 with the VDC to compare?

[Cougar]

My car has always been in Alaska. I have never driven a VDC and don't think it is a real must have option. The LL Bean has a good control system also but not as fancy as the VDC is. I would like to have the McIntosh sound system that the VDC has in it but sadly this wasn't an option for the LL Bean. Both cars have expensive features so they will cost more, even used.

[dhoch14]

you're paying for that v6 with premium gas though right? so is the V6 worth the extra cost?

 

just curious...

[mountainwalker]

you're paying for that v6 with premium gas though right? so is the V6 worth the extra cost?

 

just curious...

 

I've been told you are supposed to use premium gas, but someone mentioned here or in another forum that you could use regular. Anyone know?

 

I'm picking up our 2003 Outback H6 VDC in about a week and a half.

[xdeadhead]

sorry a bit off topic, but i drive an 05 xt obw and let me say i dont really mind paying for the car with premium gas. the extra oomph from the xt makes the perceived "pain at the pump" worth every penny. no one buys an xt or h6 for the gas mileage thats for sure.

[lostinthe202]

I can't speak for the longevity of the engine by using regular instead of the recommended premium fuel, but it would be interesting to see which is more cost effective, the fuel economy gained by premium fuel or the $0.20 or so saved by using regular gas. Seems it only would be cost effective if you only lose about 1 mpg.

 

(highway miles only in figures, gas prices for ease of math $4.00 regular, $4.20 premium)

epa estimated mileage for 2003 H6- 23mpg premium fuel

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm

 

16 gallons of premium - $67.20

miles per tank - 368

 

16 gallons of regular - $64.00

 

difference $3.20

 

miles per tank assuming 22 mpg - 352

additional .727 gallons of regular needed - $2.91

 

miles per tank assuming 21 mpg - 336

additional 1.52 gallons of regular needed - $6.10

 

miles per tank assuming 20 mpg - 320

additional 2.4 gallons of regular needed - $9.60

 

etc. etc.

 

It'll be interesting to see if these numbers hold up to real life

 

Will-

 

Congrats on your purchase btw!

[mountainwalker]

I read either in this forum or another like Edmunds or Car Talk that the H6 Outback gets only 1 mpg less than the 4 cylinder for highway.

[nipper]

I read either in this forum or another like Edmunds or Car Talk that the H6 Outback gets only 1 mpg less than the 4 cylinder for highway.

 

And 1mpg is stastically the same as the 4 cylinder. So its a wash.

 

 

nipper

[CNY_Dave]

My H6 loses a small amount of power on regular 87 vs 89 or 92. The loss is not in the top end, its in the mid-range.

 

The mileage difference is small enough I don't think premium will pay for itself.

 

caveat: here in NYS the winter blend is cruddy enough that the power loss on 87 is noticeable. 89 or 91 gets rid of it. My mileage on winter-blend is noticeably worse, too.

 

 

I'm getting just shy 27 or just over 27mpg on 87, mostly highway at 70-73 mph, with some fair hills on my commute.

 

 

Dave

[mountainwalker]

1) Do you have to use premium gas with the H6 Outback? Does using 89 cause any long term damage?

 

2) If you use less than 91, would you recommend using a fuel cleaning fluid once every few months?

 

2) Would you recommend using 91 or 89?

[idosubaru]

2) If you use less than 91, would you recommend using a fuel cleaning fluid once every few months?

no. what octane gas you use wont' affect the suggested usage of FI cleaners.

 

if you're asking because of the "fuel cleaners" in the higher grade gas, don't worry about it. all gas has sufficient cleaner in it...it's probably regulated or mandated by law. it's been advertised that the higher octane has "cleaner" in it. what they don't tell you is the lower octane has it as well.

 

fuel system cleaner isn't a bad thing and there's good uses for it, but it's not dictated by what octane you use (everything else being equal).

[mountainwalker]

On a H6 its recomended, not required (turbo required). You dont have to do any cleaning of anything, it has more to do with performance. YOu may notice some loss of performance and mileage. On the outback board one person noticed a 3 mpg drop but it still didnt justify the cost of premium. If you are towing then I would say use the premium while towing (or if fully loaded).

 

nipper

 

So it's perfectly OK to use 89 for an Outback H6? No long term ill effects, other than loss of a little power when using 89 or 87?

 

And btw, would you still recommend using a bottle of fuel system cleaner every so often?

[keltik]

My thoughts thus far on the H6:

 

Fuel Economy.

Awesome...for a 3liter engine this is impressive. It easily beats the snot out of a turbo model, and the 2.5 motor isnt even a close comparison for power. The H6 is also classified as a LEV (low emmisions vehicle) which gets you some tax breaks in certain countries and means your being kind to the environment as the 2.5 doesnt get that status.

 

Reliability.

Very good. I have heard of only one issue with this engine....timing chain tensioners. Apparently after 150,000miles they may start making a ticking noise. All the other components are usually good for 250,000miles.

 

Power.

I have raced my H6 and found it to be well powered. Theres plenty of grunt for passing people and it will easily pull to the speed limiter (200kph). The engine is just as happy to rev out every gear, or to spend hours bumbling along at 1400rpm. I wouldnt say it has crazy power.....that title is reserved for the twin turbos...its got everything youll ever need in daily driving.

 

Which gas to use?

I use 95RON in mine and she thanks me for it. On 91RON gas i can hear just a touch of knock (half second) when pulling away from a stop. On 95 i dont hear a thing.

 

VDC.

Ive driven a VDC model and it was very well mannered in the corners. It didnt have the understeer of the GT model and was VERY nice inside.

 

To summarise - the VDC models are awesome and come with a lot of electrical goodies. The interiors are very highly specced and in my opinion the cars are worth every cent.

The 2.5liter model is good - the H6 VDC models are excellent.

[michaelbteam]

We found a 2003 LL Bean in Colorado last year for $12K w/75K miles, my daughter is very happy with it. Only use regular gas, seems fine. Thought hard about a VDC but seemed a potentially complicated issue if it ever malfunctioned. You'd have to drive this car pretty hard to need the VDC, I think, and with stock suspension it's a little heavy to drive too hard. Just my opinion. My lighter older Legacies seem to handle better in the canyons, but the H-6 is a much nicer ride overall.