mountaingoatgruff Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 my wife's 97 legacy l wagon is our only street legal car right now and so its getting used a ton. with the 100+ heat wave we've also been riding the a/c pretty hard, too. the air gets cold but the problem is it takes a good while if the car's been sitting a few minutes or more. by good while i mean maybe 10 minutes on hot days and 15-20 minutes on blazin hot days. i'm not used to driving little cars past early 90's but it seems most later models that i've ridden in get noticeably colder way faster than our legacy. my '01 dodge pickup would give you nho's in two minutes flat on any 100* day but it was a standard cab v8. we hooked a manifold up and tried to recharge it but the gauges showed it was already overcharged. haynes said low side should be 19-36 and high side ?(can't remember)-250. system was at about 50 on ls and 290 on hs at idle with everything warmed up and a/c on recirc/full blast. we rev'ed the engine a bit to see if the compressor would get more suction and with the engine holding about 1500rpm manifold showed 34 on ls, 310 on hs. shouldn't the values be in spec at idle? does that indicate a weak compressor or could it be just air/moisture in the system? we noticed leak detection dye on the service ports but all parts look to be original. i can try flushing and replacing the oil, reefer & receiver/drier, but i don't know that i don't need a new/rebuilt compressor. i'm debating about what to do so any suggestions would be appreciated. also, are compressor rebuild kits available? that would save me a buttload of cash if i could find one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 Over charged is just as baed as under charged. You need to get the pressure in spec before you assume anything else is wrong with the car. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 Over charged is just as baed as under charged. You need to get the pressure in spec before you assume anything else is wrong with the car. nipper I fully agree with Nipper. If over charged, it won't cool down well. I have seen it where the compressor won't turn on, because of an over charge condition. Let out some of the 134, and see if it cools better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaingoatgruff Posted May 19, 2008 Author Share Posted May 19, 2008 that's probably common knowledge to those who know a/c systems, huh? anyhow, i'll try taking some of the 134a out and see what happens. i also noticed but forgot to mention earlier that the compressor didn't cycle at all. any time the a/c is on it stays on, is that normal for these cars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVOthis Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 on this topic....i accidently overcharged my system in my 96 lego last week (thanks to a bad machine).....the air never even got slightly cold....recovered it again, pulled a vacuum, and charged her up and now she works great..... (i believe the ROT on the low side is 24-45 psi and high side is 100+ambient temp.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 that's probably common knowledge to those who know a/c systems, huh?Yes. anyhow, i'll try taking some of the 134a out and see what happens.Please recover it. Even assuming you have R134a (a '90 would have come with R12, and for it to be running R134a would have been converted), it can still cause some environmental damage if released. I'm not saying the 100+ temps in CA and the overnight near-freezing temps here in NY are the result of vented refrigerant, but ... i also noticed but forgot to mention earlier that the compressor didn't cycle at all. any time the a/c is on it stays on, is that normal for these cars?No, that's not normal. If a conversion was done, an R134a charge should be about 3/4 that of R12, so overcharging can easily happen if the person doing it is unaware and not using proper gauges. It's also possible that if the system was previously malfunctioning, someone may have bypassed controls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaingoatgruff Posted May 19, 2008 Author Share Posted May 19, 2008 Please recover it. how does one recover the refrigerant? my dad is the guy doing the a/c work as i really don't know much about them. i hate to admit it but he's the kind of guy that used to clean parts with gasoline by the sidewalk (but he's quit doing that) and i don't think he recovers anything.:-\ No, that's not normal. If a conversion was done, an R134a charge should be about 3/4 that of R12, so overcharging can easily happen if the person doing it is unaware and not using proper gauges. It's also possible that if the system was previously malfunctioning, someone may have bypassed controls. the car is a 97 legacy with 134a from the factory. nothing looks like it was messed with in that way but its impossible to know for sure without comparing everything to an fsm or something. could faulty parts cause the compressor to run constantly and not cycle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 OK its time to stop being a backyard mechanic. Did you know that if i see you releasing the gas into the atmosphere, and report you to the EPA, i am the one that gets your money, not the epa. That fine can be as much as 27,000.00 US (usually runs in the 5000-17000.00 range). I know because I have an EPA refrigerant license. You need to take the car to a A/C specialist. He recovers the gas. Let him work on the car. There are times when you have to pay someone. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 [...]the car is a 97 legacy with 134a from the factory.[...]Ooops, sorry -- for some reason, I was thinking it was an earlier model. Nevertheless, please take the car to a licensed pro who can recover the excess refrigerant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 Ooops, sorry -- for some reason, I was thinking it was an earlier model. Nevertheless, please take the car to a licensed pro who can recover the excess refrigerant. It sill needs recovery, even if it was a 2008 nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 It sill needs recovery, even if it was a 2008 Agreed; I thought I had made that clear. However, just to put things in perspective, R12 is thought to be many times more damaging to the environment than R134a. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaingoatgruff Posted May 20, 2008 Author Share Posted May 20, 2008 you guys didn't answer my question - how does one recover the refrigerant? i'm not sure if my dad has that stuff but he has everything else so i don't see why he wouldn't. i'll call him in the morning to make sure but we didn't release any 134a while working on it the other day and if we positively can't recover it ourselves i'll consider taking it in. i haven't taken a car to a "professional" for anything but smog checks and alignments in my whole life and i don't want to start now. i've worked in a few dealership service dept's as a porter and as a lube tech a couple times. i've watched countless "professionals" in multiple locations hack folks' cars over and over so i avoid "professionals" as much as possible. as far as the epa regulations are concerned - thanks for pointing that out. feel free to inform/scold me in these types of situations, cuz i didn't know it was straight illegal. i don't claim to be anything above a backyard mechanic (nor do i think there's anything wrong with that) and i'm not above admitting when i do need to learn more before proceeding. jeeze, this is why i don't mess with a/c's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 you guys didn't answer my question - how does one recover the refrigerant?[...]i've watched countless "professionals" in multiple locations hack folks' cars over and over so i avoid "professionals" as much as possible.I appreciate your concern over the qualifications of some "professionals"; it's one reason I participate in this forum.However, this is a situation where it's not practical to DIY. See: http://www.bacharach-inc.com/refrigerant_recovery_faq.htm http://www.professionalequipment.com/refrigerant-recovery-tools/ as far as the epa regulations are concerned - thanks for pointing that out. feel free to inform/scold me in these types of situations, cuz i didn't know it was straight illegal.[...]While I don't want to be the "refrigerant police", here's what the EPA has to say about it:http://www.epa.gov/Ozone/title6/608/608fact.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaingoatgruff Posted May 20, 2008 Author Share Posted May 20, 2008 i called my dad this morning and let's just say i won't be taking it to him to have the refrigerant recovered. i nagged him enough that he doesn't put crap in storm drains anymore, but i haven't worked with him much in the last few years. you just can't convince everybody. i think we're just going to leave the system alone for now. it works, we just wanted it to work better on particularly hot days for our son's sake. we'll just have to start the car early in those situations that require it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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