hydro power

[Rxbubaru]

alright this is somewhat new but check this out might be decent to try out. smacks booster post what you think

[crazyhorse001]

I'm sorry, but there is just no way to create enough hydrogen, from water, "on the fly" to run a car. Wait, let me clarify, not with current technolgies anyway. No pun intended.

[nipper]

There is another post like this floating around. At idle your engine consumes about 250 cubic feet per minute of air. The ideal air fuel ratio for gasoline is 14.7 to 1.

 

You can do the math, i wont :-p but between the load on the altenator, the amount needed to be produced, and the fact that no one seems to take into account how much water you need to produce said amount, even if it did work, wouldnt be worth it.

 

 

 

nipper

[SuperNova]

I'm sorry, but there is just no way to create enough hydrogen, from water, "on the fly" to run a car. Wait, let me clarify, not with current technolgies anyway. No pun intended.

 

Its not about running the car on only HHO, its a booster. A supplement to aid in the combustion process. The hydrogen creates a more complete burn of the fuel, less is wasted out the exhaust. It actually does increase mileage. I have been experimenting with HHO for the past 4-5 months now, amazing technology. Although there are quite a few people selling boosters out there that are not worth it and claim more mpg gain than what you actually get.

[gbrand]

You cant get more energy out of a process than you put in.

 

this is another variation of the same scam that has been going on for years-see

 

http://www.phact.org/hafc.htm

 

among others links if you do the research.....

[Yo'J]

"You cant get more energy out of a process than you put in.

 

this is another variation of the same scam that has been going on for years-see

 

http://www.phact.org/hafc.htm

 

among others links if you do the research.....

Reply With Quote"

 

Less than twenty lines down, the link says to try smacks booster. There are lots of links out there to these dime store hydrogen boosters you can make. I think it might be an option to 100% gas. In retrofitting subies there is a post on HHO relating to this. It is still another fluid to change under the hood but might be worthwhile if you do the work, i.e. your energy. I hear alot of truckers use it. We will see, I'm interested and Im going to submit it to a friend to see if the computer side of this can be made for multiple vehicle type applications. The can of water is easy for older cars! OOOH! I have a test vehicle!

[Yo'J]

Its not about running the car on only HHO, its a booster. A supplement to aid in the combustion process. The hydrogen creates a more complete burn of the fuel, less is wasted out the exhaust. It actually does increase mileage. I have been experimenting with HHO for the past 4-5 months now, amazing technology. Although there are quite a few people selling boosters out there that are not worth it and claim more mpg gain than what you actually get.

 

 

SO whose system works best? I got to get a line on this....I want the links!

[[HTi]Johnson]

I've heard stories from a friend's coworker. Him and his other coworker built one of these for each car, and they say they get better mileage, like 14 mpg more. It could be that he changed his driving habits, but he swears he didn't.

 

Check this out http://www.drivewater.com

 

It's not about running it off complete hydrogen, it about mixing it in.

 

I think if you want better MPG you gotta heat the fuel, not the air, it'll atomize better and ignite more thoroughly.

[gbrand]

"Less than twenty lines down, the link says to try smacks booster. "

 

from the phact webpage

 

High mileage scams are going up along with fuel costs - here is a similar one - at least they only charge 50$ to tell you how to run a car on water.

http://www.5starshine.com/ebook.html

here is a much cheaper alternative for someone wanting to investigate adding hydrogen to engines:

http://www.smacksboosters.110mb.com/

 

It does NOT say to try the smacksbooster, only that it is a cheaper alternative-although the words are unclear, I read a cheaper scam

 

Again the warning lights mentioned in the page for any product(auto, financial) that sounds to good to be true, specificly no physical address, no independent verification.

 

Also, the bottom of the page mentions that all proceeds and dontations are being used to fund a 100% water powered vehicle-again implying that you can get more energy out of buring the hydrogen and oxygen that it takes to electrolyse(break apart) the water-but do agree that is not the pitch for THIS product.

 

But Very interested to see INDEPENDENT verification of the smackbooster or any other claimed miracle device under controlled conditions. If it works let the test results bear out claims.

[Frank B]

If it was that easy to make hydrogen from tap water, it would have been used as a fuel a long time ago. I just can't see how it could make enough to make a difference. I wonder if it's just a water injection system and the water vapor is making the difference?

[jacobs]

 

I think if you want better MPG you gotta heat the fuel' date=' not the air, it'll atomize better and ignite more thoroughly.[/quote']

 

Engine vacuum in the intake manifold vaporizes gasoline very good. If vaporization was a issue, propane or CNG as a fuel would give fantastic fuel milage but using propane results in less mpg than gasoline.

[Yo'J]

If it was that easy to make hydrogen from tap water, it would have been used as a fuel a long time ago. I just can't see how it could make enough to make a difference. I wonder if it's just a water injection system and the water vapor is making the difference?

I wonder if the water vapor system could work as well like its claimed. I'm glad we are all here, unafraid to do our own mods, unafraid to do things out of the norm.

 

100% HHO running cars seems to me to be something way off as it would take an independent starting system, assuming you could really run without gas. I wouldn't want to try to engineer that. I'm just interested in better economy/less emissions. I think car manufacturers are afraid to try these little improvements thinking its too far from the norm for folks to understand. If you have a problem and your car explodes, a short with a spark and a leak, for example, they would have to fix it. Imagine Volvo, with more breakable, over engineered parts that they, the dealers, have to try to get to work right in the first place. I would hate to be one of those guys! Their own dealers call the new ones crap.

[nipper]

I wonder if the water vapor system could work as well like its claimed. I'm glad we are all here' date=' unafraid to do our own mods, unafraid to do things out of the norm.

 

100% HHO running cars seems to me to be something way off as it would take an independent starting system, assuming you could really run without gas. I wouldn't want to try to engineer that. I'm just interested in better economy/less emissions. I think car manufacturers are afraid to try these little improvements thinking its too far from the norm for folks to understand. If you have a problem and your car explodes, a short with a spark and a leak, for example, they would have to fix it. Imagine Volvo, with more breakable, over engineered parts that they, the dealers, have to try to get to work right in the first place. I would hate to be one of those guys! Their own dealers call the new ones crap.[/quote']

 

I want to clear something up. water is H2O, thats H+H+O. Water is just a medium for carrying the hydrogen. Hydrogen has to be seperated

 

http://theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/Stories/001.1/index.html

 

As it says right there, you cant get more energy out then what you put in.

 

BMW is working on a differnt angle, using an ICE to run on hydrogen. This is taking a lot of engineering to make the engine work at anything close to acceptable.

 

Gasoline has a much higer energy density, thats why we are still using it (We shold be using diesel but we can thank GM for that).

 

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2006/09/12/bmw-officially-announces-the-bmw-hydrogen-7/

 

http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,448648,00.html

 

http://www.wired.com/cars/energy/news/2006/11/72100?currentPage=2

 

Hydrogen in a recipricating engine may reduce your mileage, and again, we are swapping something in high demand (water to fuel our lazy buts (just like corn for ethanol) if water is used.

 

Never should food be used for fuel.

 

nipper

[robm]

I would like to point out to Jacobs that propane does result in improved combustion. Less MPG because there is less heat energy in the fuel, but you don't lose as much as mileage as you would think because it burns better.

 

Now this how it was for carburetted engines. Fuel injected gas probably meters and burns better than propane. I am not sure how well the new propane injection systems available in Europe work vs. gasoline injection.

[backwoodsboy]

I wonder if it's just a water injection system and the water vapor is making the difference?

 

That was my exact thought when I first saw the web page.

[dhise]

I don't know about HHO, but keeping my foot out of the gas pedal and not driving faster than 55mph got me 36mpg on my last tank. Filled up yesterday to beat the weekend price jump. $3.999 and up here now.

 

-Doug

[Uberoo]

hydrogen contains more energy per unit of volume than gasoline.

[mountaingoatgruff]

hho boosters are not the answer, they're not even really helpful at this point. the world has likely reached peak oil production and if it hasn't it will in the next decade - two at the most. according to current economic and population growth, we need to more that double oil production by 30 years from now but we're VERY unlikely to see steady production even at current levels that long.

 

hho boosters are a distracting band-aid. the only real good that hho boosters can do is to lead the way for development of fully hho powered systems, which in turn will require a totally new design of internal combustion engine to overcome current flaws - probably one in which entire cylinders move instead of just pistons.

 

the scientific community goes on and on about how "you can't get more energy out than you put in" and "there's no such thing as free energy" but i disagree. plant a seed, walk away, and if it grows you've proved them wrong. [insert your god of choice here] has designed the world in a way that presents all kinds and forms of latent energy that nature will process for us and they're just waiting to be used. the only problem is we can't see it cuz we're looking through "oil lenses" for a cheap oil substitute.

 

this topic makes for an entertaining read on an auto enthusiast website, but seriously folks - what will you do when the oil is gone?

 

the sad truth is that billions of us will simply starve and die. without the petroleum economy we enjoy now, the world cannot feed the 7billion+ people on it. humanity is the victim of the monster created by their own successes.

 

hydrogen contains more energy per unit of volume than gasoline.

 

do you have a source to demonstrate/prove that?

 

If it was that easy to make hydrogen from tap water, it would have been used as a fuel a long time ago. I just can't see how it could make enough to make a difference. I wonder if it's just a water injection system and the water vapor is making the difference?

 

 

that's just as nieve as saying "if doctors could heal us for less money, health insurance would be cheaper." gimme a break, they sell oil cuz that's what makes money - its that simple! even if you could use pig&%#@ to run your car, they'd still be selling oil and they'd start designing cars so they can't be run on pig&%#@ anymore.

 

Gasoline has a much higer energy density, thats why we are still using it

 

see above post.

 

(We shold be using diesel but we can thank GM for that).

 

making diesel requires more crude oil for the same amount of end product. also, correct me if i'm wrong but diesel creates more pollution. where's the logic in that?

 

Johnson']I think if you want better MPG you gotta heat the fuel' date=' not the air, it'll atomize better and ignite more thoroughly.[/quote']

 

colder fuel/air mixture = denser cylinder charge = more power

 

fuel and air should be cold for max power.

[dhise]

The plant isn't growing on "free" energy, it's the sunlight that gives it energy. Animals eat the plants and we eat the plants and animals for energy. The sun has been our energy source the whole time we've been around. Now whether or not oil, coal, etc, represents stored sunlight from the past I am not certain.

 

 

the scientific community goes on and on about how "you can't get more energy out than you put in" and "there's no such thing as free energy" but i disagree. plant a seed, walk away, and if it grows you've proved them wrong. [insert your god of choice here] has designed the world in a way that presents all kinds and forms of latent energy that nature will process for us and they're just waiting to be used. the only problem is we can't see it cuz we're looking through "oil lenses" for a cheap oil substitute.

[Frank B]

I agree with you Gruff, I really do. Oil is dominate fuel because it was cheap, once upon a time. And now there are so many people making insane amounts of money off of it to just let it go. And we are dependant on it. I believe that we should be using more solar, wind, and hydro-electric power. Hydro as in water turning generators, not hydrogen. Hydrogen is great for emissions minded people, if you forget how it's made. The sun has provided the energy to sustain live on this planet for millions of years, we have the technology to change our current path, but who's going to let go of this wasteful, easy way of life and start growing their own food, riding a bike to work, paying thousands of dollars for solar panels, or simply trading up that big SUV or 300+ hp sports car for an electic model that goes 55 mph for 60 miles? If I had the money I certainly would. I don't even have the money to prepare for the worst if it does just stop and the world gets hungry, who does and what do you do?

It's up to the government to start this change, but there are too many oil investors in Washington DC. I say DC because the rest of the world is looking at us.

[mountaingoatgruff]

I agree with you Gruff, I really do. Oil is dominate fuel because it was cheap, once upon a time.

 

even at $4/gal, that's still a relatively cheap energy source. its not comparatively cheap based on earlier prices, but oil is such a dense energy that $4 can buy you enough energy to do what it would otherwise take you hours and hours of labor to do. the problem is, oil is still cheap enough that the world won't refuse it.

 

who's going to let go of this wasteful, easy way of life and start growing their own food, riding a bike to work, paying thousands of dollars for solar panels, or simply trading up that big SUV or 300+ hp sports car for an electic model that goes 55 mph for 60 miles? If I had the money I certainly would. I don't even have the money to prepare for the worst if it does just stop and the world gets hungry, who does and what do you do?

 

my wife and i are making a concerned effort to learn how to do these things and i belong to a group of people helping each other towards that goal. people like us are all over the us and we welcome and encourage anybody to join us.

 

 

It's up to the government to start this change, but there are too many oil investors in Washington DC. I say DC because the rest of the world is looking at us.

 

the gov't will watch you starve and they won't regret it for a second. for this and other atrocities, i put the current us gov't on par with many of the worst regimes in history.

[Yo'J]

Hi, to all the people fighting to understand where this HHo generator thing comes from here is the link to the main article. The first page is a great eye opener to those who nay say. Remember, the first real working light bulb is still burning and hasn't burnt out. I havent seen one on a car yet, but I want to.

 

http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/index.html Chapter ten has a couple of HHO generators. You can also google "HHO generator" and find tons of info.

[thecarman]

making diesel requires more crude oil for the same amount of end product.

 

Is that really true? I have always thought they were equal, and/or diesel required less refining to produce. (Although the ultra low sulfur diesel we have in the US now takes more refining than what we used to have, but pollutes less)

 

also, correct me if i'm wrong but diesel creates more pollution. where's the logic in that?

 

Diesel can create more of some pollutants, like particulates and NOx, but it produces less CO2. You get better MPG with diesel, so you burn less, so you produce less CO2.

 

Sorry that we are getting off the HHO topic!

[civilpd]

Yeh, I'm with you.

The smack's booster sounds like it would work to me. The only thing is that if you have a computer with a fuel mgmt system, then the computer will try to adjust and compensate therefor negating the brown' gas.

There is a guy at the gym who swears his old lincoln battleship gets a lot better mielage, but his newer toyota tundra gets crappy and even worse mileage.

The things I have heard seem to all support one another.

I did not look at the link, but there is one link that has info on how to build everthing from the browns gas chamber to the fuel mgmt bypass ( which really only tricks your oxygen sensor or something).

My question, (the reason I was reading around in the first place, becuase I am going to try to build the thing and already have all the parts) is if on the 1987 GL-10 is it possible to just unplug the computer? The reason I ask this is because from what I understand, the first half of the 1987's did not have computers anyway. So before I order the resistors and transistors and all that crap and go to the trouble of pretty much just following directions by soldering togther this thing, can I simply reach under the seat and give a mighty tug on the harness?

Here is the link I have. It is a direct link to a .PDF file that is 340kb so if nothing happens it is because your computer has to first download it. I just saved the thing to my computer but every time I want the address to the link I have to reopen it. http://smacksboosters.110mb.com/Smack.pdf

I have also uploaded the document to this forum. I think that it means you can access it straight from here somhow.

Anyway, I am going to slap this thing together and see if it works becuase at $3.85 a gallon and gong to $5.00 (I hear), to hell with all you.

As for it being a scam, well, I think that both sides of the argument have some truth to them. I think it works but not as well as some claim, and I think that there are those out there selling these systems for $500,$700, and $1500 and are scamming folks with something that should otherwise cost $30 to make.

I have read one article that says after much experimentation the best a group was able to do is get an 18% increase in mileage. But hey, do the math, (I haven't) it will decrease what you pay at the pump in the end. Also, you can take this thing off in a second. Some people report they put them on rental cars.

In closing, for a kick, check out the garbage cans at the gas station next time you fill up. People are pouring all kinds of crap in there tanks trying to increase mileage.