outbackusjunkus Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 This is '97 OBW...just bought last nite...200,000 miles. The fella said it was running fine, then just quit. I pulled 9 codes P0130 front o2 sensor P0136 rear o2 sensor P0500 vss sensor P1100 starter switch circuit malfunction P1101 neutral position switch circuit high input P1120 starter switch high input P1121 neutral position switch low input P1540 vehicle speed sensor malfun 2 Actually 11 codes, as the first three came up pending as well. My haynes manual does not list the last five codes, found most of those on the scan gauge website. It turns over fine...but won't fire...fans keep kicking on and off. I don't know where to start, I did a search here and found another guy with the same exact codes, http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=78170&highlight=p1101 but he never posted a resolution (maybe its the same car, ha ha.) My guess is one thing is causing most of these codes...any ideas? engine is 2.5, AT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 The code definitions you've posted aren't all correct. Interestingly, some of them conflict with each other -- I'll post the right definitions shortly. However, before we go any further, have you verified that the under-dash diagnostic connectors aren't coupled together? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outbackusjunkus Posted June 19, 2008 Author Share Posted June 19, 2008 yea, I edited my first post with codes from the scan gauge website. Do they look right now? my Haynes doesn't list a lot of them so have been searching around. I'll have to check on that connector later, as am at work right now. I searched the web a bit, theres another guy w/an '97 impreza with all the same codes too. But no answer was posted there either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Well, you beat me to the corrections, but I'll post them anyway, along with my comment. Here are the P1xxx definitions: P1100 Starter switch circuit low input P1101 Neutral position switch circuit high input P1120 Starter switch circuit high input P1121 Neutral position switch circuit low input P1540 VSS 2 malfunction Note that P1100 & P1120 conflict, as do P1101 and P1121. Seems like along with the fans going on and off, you're in a diagnostic mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSRBIKER Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 If you bought it from a dealer bring it back to them to fix, in NJ they must sell you a car that can pass inspection unless you sign off on the car is sold as is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 This is '97 OBW...just bought last nite...200,000 miles. The fella said it was running fine, then just quit.[...]Unfortunately, the engine suddenly quitting could be caused by a broken or jumped timing belt. Once you check for coupled diagnostic connectors, I'd clear the ECU memory. You could try to start again, and see what codes get generated, but it might just be time to pull covers and get a peek at the timing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outbackusjunkus Posted June 19, 2008 Author Share Posted June 19, 2008 I'll pull the covers tonite, but have the feeling its something else. This is just too weird of a CEL combination...conflicting...like you said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 I'll pull the covers tonite, but have the feeling its something else. This is just too weird of a CEL combination...conflicting...like you said. What if the previous owner had the t-belt break, coupled the diagnostic connectors in trying to figure things out, and left them that way? That might explain the weirdness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outbackusjunkus Posted June 20, 2008 Author Share Posted June 20, 2008 Both timing covers are off now, and all marks line up properly on both sides. Belt looks good too, nice and clean in there. Diagnostic connector is not hooked to anything either. I was surprised not to find belt salad back there, after thinking about. I'll check the harness plugs on the back of the engine for damage tomorrow, but am out of ideas for now. Also checked the fuse boxes, only one blown was for clock/interior lights. The buzzer for the key stays on all the time too, even when everything is off and the doors are closed. Maybe I should start with the ignition switch? This is a crazy deal. Hey...what if its the alternator going bad?...throwing out voltage spikes and screwing everthing up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Both timing covers are off now, and all marks line up properly on both sides. [...]When the cam marks are aligned, where is the crank (pulley) timing pointing to? You said it was cranking, but not firing. Is there spark? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outbackusjunkus Posted June 20, 2008 Author Share Posted June 20, 2008 Good question...I didn't think to look at the crank position. It's hard to say, the balancer has a nice coating of surface rust and there is no definite mark. I checked my spare 2.2, it is clearly marked with notches at the front, middle, and back. I did find a small notch on the front only, which was about an inch left of the closest timing mark. I'm going to guess that it's a timing mark? If thats the case...why no misfire code...and all those unrelated ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 There should be a small v-notch at the rear edge. If the rust isn't too bad, there may be some remnant of a daub of white paint on the notch. It's sometimes easier to find with an inspection (dental) mirror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outbackusjunkus Posted June 22, 2008 Author Share Posted June 22, 2008 I couldn't find the mark so took everything off...due for a new belt anyway. Now I can see the crank gear and everything is lined up correctly. No spark tho. I'll check for power at the coil tomorrow...also...do these have any kind of auto shut down relay? Could it be the PCM? I've got the identical car for my daily driver...if its easy to do maybe I should try that computer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Could it be the PCM? Funny you should mention that--I just saw the term for the first time on another car forum and have no idea what it is. So . . . what's a PCM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outbackusjunkus Posted June 23, 2008 Author Share Posted June 23, 2008 Funny you should mention that--I just saw the term for the first time on another car forum and have no idea what it is. So . . . what's a PCM? Acronym, stands for Power train Control Module. ECU, "brain box", same same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Thanks junk. Guess I'll just stick to ECU! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 [...]No spark tho. I'll check for power at the coil tomorrow...also...do these have any kind of auto shut down relay?[...] Checking for power to the coil is a good place to begin. Also, look for switching -- if it's not happening, it could be the igniter, but there are other possibilities. See the links below (especially the second one) for info on troubleshooting "no start". There is a main relay. ECU failures occur, but they're rare. By the way, have you verified that there's fuel pressure? http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/IgnitionCoil.pdf http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/DirectIgnition.pdf There are errors in the "DirectIgnition.pdf" info. In the "Ignition Coil Testing" section, the terminal numbers listed are reversed between the primary and secondary; however, the diagram is labeled correctly. The correct numbering relative to expected resistance is in "IgnitionCoil.pdf"; you can use the diagram from "DirectIgnition.pdf" to identify the terminal numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outbackusjunkus Posted June 23, 2008 Author Share Posted June 23, 2008 No, haven't checked for fuel pressure...will admit I've been lazy about this. I was betting that since others have had these exact same 9 codes pop up at once that there was going to be a known cause. I'll crack into it more as time allows this week. BTW...swapped out the computer last nite with one from my other '97 OBW just for fun (had dust off the haynes manual)...engine lite was flashing like mad as soon as the battery was connected...but no codes. Then I turned it over to check for spark...checked codes again...same 9 showed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 No, haven't checked for fuel pressure...will admit I've been lazy about this. I was betting that since others have had these exact same 9 codes pop up at once that there was going to be a known cause. I'll crack into it more as time allows this week. BTW...swapped out the computer last nite with one from my other '97 OBW just for fun (had dust off the haynes manual)...engine lite was flashing like mad as soon as the battery was connected...but no codes. Then I turned it over to check for spark...checked codes again...same 9 showed up. The flashing CEL, cycling fans, and those conflicting codes point to the ECU being in test diagnostic mode (as I've mentioned before in this thread, starting with post #4). If you've already looked under the dash, and the green test connectors aren't coupled, then I suppose there could be a weird short effectively doing the same thing. (I'm holding off on using the "beating a dead horse" smilie. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Just in case there's some confusion over what's what under the dash, see http://www.scoobypedia.co.uk/index.php/Knowledge/ReadingECUCodes . Make sure the connectors shown in Figure 1 are not coupled together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outbackusjunkus Posted June 24, 2008 Author Share Posted June 24, 2008 Theres the dead horse...codes are gone. I didn't know they were the green ones!!! what a dumb@ss. So power at the coil...no pulse from the ignitor...zero fuel pressure. I'll test the ignitor etc. like that article you posted shows, thats good info. Thanks for all the help so far, I would be even more lost w/o.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 Theres the dead horse...codes are gone. I didn't know they were the green ones!!! what a dumb@ss. Great, now we can move on. Don't beat yourself up, the dead horse will do. So power at the coil...no pulse from the ignitor...zero fuel pressure. I'll test the ignitor etc. like that article you posted shows, thats good info.If the fuel pump isn't running (assumed since no fuel pressure) and the igniter isn't pulsing, it's likely to be a cause common to the two, and not separate problems. I know you previously checked the fuses, but I'd suggest doing so again, as well as testing fusible links. I think SBF-2 is common to the main relay and fuel pump relay. Also, does anything under the hood or dash look non-stock? An aftermarket anti-theft shutdown module could make the troubleshooting difficult. Thanks for all the help so far, I would be even more lost w/o..You're welcome, let's hope for further progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outbackusjunkus Posted June 25, 2008 Author Share Posted June 25, 2008 There was signal from the two wires from ecu to ignitor...but not at coil...the plug in for the ignitor was pretty crusty and when I plugged everything pack together there was spark . No fuel tho, so I pulled the pump out and jumped it with the battery (no good). Am going to order up a new pump today... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Well, that certainly is progress -- congrats. I'm surprised that there were two simultaneous failures, but of course those things can happen. Please update us once the fuel pump is replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outbackusjunkus Posted June 30, 2008 Author Share Posted June 30, 2008 Well, that certainly is progress -- congrats. I'm surprised that there were two simultaneous failures, but of course those things can happen. Please update us once the fuel pump is replaced. Fuel pump is replaced...runs pretty well! Head gaskets leak in true 2.5 fashion...but have a 2.2 ready to go. Should be a nice little car..body is good and even has the cold weather package. Thanks again for the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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