Need help! Legacy won't pass!

[toni1595]

Hi All,

My daughter's 1995 LegacySedan is up for inspection and they found the crossmember over the rear wheels it rusted off where it bolts to the frame, if you can call it that. Wouldn't be that big of a deal but my younger daughter also has a car that needs some work done so she can get to her new job and to top it off, I found out our newly acquired Chevy Aveo needs a timing belt change and if it don't get it and it breaks, it's new motor time, so I'm told. I feel like I'm drowning in car repair hell. I'll probably have to pay to have my younger daughter's car done.

That being said, if someone here could give me some advice on this crossmember repair, I'd be forever grateful. I'm not sure if I should just weld on some plates over the existing piece or cut the ends off and weld on new ends? And getting these bolts out, has me concerned. I tried to turn them yesterday and they are pretty tight and I don't see any way to get any heat or penetrating oil up in there unless you can access it from the trunk?? And the gas tank is also very close. I thinking it might be better to just remove it from the car completely, for safetys sake.

 

So, has anyone here dealt with this kind of a repair? I'm not afraid of doing it, I'm just concerned about messing with this frame piece. If I go and cut into this will the back end come crashing down? Won't the rear struts support it? And I notice there are some support rods that are anchored to the rear wheel hubs. If I mess with this, will it upset the wheel alignment? So many questions, so little time.

 

Thanks in advance for your input. Toni.

[Gloyale]

Hi All,

 

So, has anyone here dealt with this kind of a repair? I'm not afraid of doing it, I'm just concerned about messing with this frame piece. If I go and cut into this will the back end come crashing down? Won't the rear struts support it? And I notice there are some support rods that are anchored to the rear wheel hubs. If I mess with this, will it upset the wheel alignment? So many questions, so little time.

 

 

 

I'd say you should remove the whole crossmember to do the welding. If there is even enough metal to weld to. A junkyard crossmember may be a better option.

[SUBARU3]

It always amazes me how they find these things in an inspection! How long does an average inspection take???? (I mean it's good they do). If they put every car on a lift to look at here in Dallas, it would take days to get your car inspected! Way too many people, cars...ect. Inspection here is not designed to be a money maker for the people that do it.

 

I can't imagine that crossmember that bad! But if it is, I'd replace it with one from a salvage yard. check www.car-part.com

 

Todd

[yohy]

Toni,

 

Not certain if your Legacy is FWD or AWD so I will attach both exploded diagrams from the FSM (the FSM is for my '97 but your '95 should be the same). This will give you an idea of what is involved in removing the cross member. Again, one will be for the AWD and the other for the FWD.

 

Good luck. Man I hate the effects of winter on a car!!

[idosubaru]

if you could post pictures that would help a lot. if it's just the cross member, i agree that removing, repairing car, and bolting another one in it's place is your best bet.

 

getting this repaired that it won't be bad again in a year or two and/or that it will be structurally sound is going to be very difficult. it's hard to find good metal, hard to weld, it's hard to get rid of all the rust, it's hard to keep the rust from coming back. that's a lot of work.

 

i'd probably keep the repair/solution as simple as possible and plan on getting another car in a couple years rather than planning on this rust repair lasting long.

 

i'm not recommending it (i can't even see it!) but if the rust isn't that bad, just find someone who will pass it (ask around, etc).

 

good luck and hang in there, sounds like a lot of work.

[toni1595]

To Gloyale, yes there is something there. It's really only bad right on the ends where it bolts on. While there is rust on it overall, its just surface rust.

 

To Subaru3, you see the Maine State Police clamped down on inspections because a woman went into a lake up here and drowned due to brake failure and she had just had her truck inspected by a shady garage. Now we all pay, especially tough now with the price of gas and the local economies being what they are. Anything questionable doesn't get a sticker. Thanks for the link though, I found several of the crossmembers here in my state. Priced as low as $65. I'm just not sure if this will stay together while I disassemble it.

 

To yohy, this is an AWD sedan as it does have a differential under the crossmember. Do you know what exact years will fit this car? Like I stated, I found several within 100 miles of my address, so I should be able to come up with something. I'm checking out the sources now. I have a subscription to Alldata.com, so I may add this car to it.

 

To grossgary, your probably right, replacement would be best and safer, especially with welding around the gas tank and space is limited there. If I can get the piece, I'll probably spend my July 4th weekend doing a R&R. My daughter only plans on keeping it another year anyway and then she'll be able to buy a newer car. I'll post a few pictures later today after I get it up on my ramps.

[yohy]

Do you know what exact years will fit this car?

 

In doing some research, I came up with the following:

 

REAR SUSPENSION CROSS MEMBER FOR 1995-1999 LEGACY 4WD (item 45) part number 20151AC002.

 

see:

http://www.subarupartsforyou.com/cp_partdetail.php?partid=13093

 

Hope this gives you some helpful info.

[toni1595]

http://s280.photobucket.com/albums/kk196/toni1595/ This is the only way I could post the pictures. Hope this link works....

[yohy]

The link worked fine. I would take a putty knife and scrape off the surface rust, then take a punch and test the metal in the worst areas. From the looks of it, that is more surface rust than anything else. I don't see any points where it has rusted through.

[Gnuman]

The pictures were fine. I would worry most about the condition of the bolts holding ont he crossmembar. Take some PB Blaster and spray it on them to loosten things up. Be careful pulling them off as well as you don't want to bust the bolts. they will be 17mm or 19mm IIRC. Alignment is optional, but a good idea here. you may have to drop (not remove, just disconnect soit hangs) the rear diff to get it loose from the crossmember. Good luck on this project!

[toni1595]

No it's rusted through on the passenger side, no doubt about that. Its got to be replaced or at least repaired.The drivers side isn't as bad but its still quite rusty. Like I said, the rest of its pretty good on the whole. I tried to loosen up the bolts as a preemptive strike but they won't budge. I did spray some penetrating fluid up in there Sunday hoping it might work its way in. Otherwise they will be broken off when I finally go to remove them. And I don't see any way to get a torch up in there either. I'm hoping they're bolt with locknuts but they are probably threaded into the frame with a nut made onto it.

 

I did locate a replacement crossmember and I may have that by the weekend and be able to do the R and R.

 

I keep you posted on my progress, Toni.

[toni1595]

Well the cross member that I originally found was too rusted out to buy. I checked out another one on the car parts list and this one appears to be good according to the yard guy. They will have it there Monday, I guess it isn't right there on site they are having it shipped from who knows where?? That means it won't get swapped out this weekend, maybe next?? There is one small rust hole on the outside of the body that I can work on. Shouldn't take too long to repair.I may need to remove the rear bumper though because I prefer to weld in new metal, it seems to last longer than body filler, which I've found only lasts about a year or so before the rust is back.

 

That's all from here, hope you all enjoyed the fireworks, Toni.

[toni1595]

Update for anyone interested, so far I havent been able to locate a crossmember. Like I said, the first one that was located, was too rusted out. The next one, when I went down to pick it up, the guy left early that day and I missed him. I had one of the guys at work finally pick it up for me, because he lives near there, and it was the frame piece in front of the rear crossmember. It is shaped like a "T". I called him back and he says he'll get the right part, after I sent him a drawing of it, which I guess I should have done in the first place.

Yesterday I got a couple cans of PB Blaster and sprayed the crap out of most of the nuts and bolts that I could see. In fact while I was working on the body, I was able to loosen just about everyone of them, except for the two differential nuts on the back, those ones are going to be tough. I may have to cut them off as the corners are pretty well gone. Hopefully, I can save the studs themselves.

On a good note, my older daughter, the one that originally owned this '95 Legacy, has purchased an '03 Legacy. So I won't need to build up another car for my younger daughter, I'll just give her this one when I'm done playing with it. To skirt the emissions test that's required in Southern Maine, I'll register it in my name and get it inspected in this area, so after the crossmember replacement, I should be good to go.

Well this is where I'm at. Hopefully all is well with you. Toni.

[toni1595]

??????????

[aircraft engineer]

see if you can find a nut cracker. It will save cutting them off - just split the nut and at worst they will come off with vise grips.

 

http://www.acehardware.com/sm-general-nut-splitter-general-nut-splitter-price-25-99-4--pi-1292905.html

[idosubaru]

you're using a 6 point socket on all of those right? those diff bolts should come out. those are tight and tricky but of all the rusted painful bolts i've had to deal with it's never been those.

 

should be able to hit them with some heat too.

 

if you have a good welder, you might be able to get the car off the ground and weld some angle iron to the stud/nut and use that to turn it and break it loose. i've welded nuts to the tops of stripped things before to get them out. works great sometimes but those rear diff threads are huge and tough.

[yohy]

Toni,

 

If you are still having trouble locating your part, try these folks, I have used them both. Moody's is more organized while Freeport Auto is a jungle. Not certain if either of them are linked to the national data bases

 

Moody's Used Auto Parts

117 Bath Rd

Brunswick, ME 04011

(207) 725-4199‎

Freeport Auto Parts

33 Allen Range Rd

Freeport, ME 04032

(207) 865-3967‎

[toni1595]

Well I'm in the process of removing the crossmember and I've hit a snag. On Alldata.com it says on one hand to remove the wheels in order to take the rear differential out. But in order to take the rear crossmember out, I need to have the wheels on it to support the vehicle. Can't have it both ways..... Right now its up on ramps.

 

 

I think I could do it if I could turn the driveshaft enough to get at the 2 top bolts where the differential bolts to the driveshaft. The wheels seem to have to be turned a little to get at them good. I might be able to reach up in there, I don't know. Any of you gurus ever done this before??

 

 

I did finally get "close" to the correct part. The one I ended up with was for a wagon I think because it don't have the threaded holes for the lower support arms. I think I'm just going to take it off and try to repair the old one and call it good enough. I can't wait forever to get the correct part. I've been trying to find one for a couple of weeks and I'm getting pretty frustrated with the whole thing. Toni.

[Gloyale]

Well I'm in the process of removing the crossmember and I've hit a snag. On Alldata.com it says on one hand to remove the wheels in order to take the rear differential out. But in order to take the rear crossmember out, I need to have the wheels on it to support the vehicle. Can't have it both ways..... Right now its up on ramps.

 

 

 

Uh, without the radius rods from the crossmember to support them, the wheels would try to splay outward anyhow.

 

You really need to support the unibody with jackstands. Probably near or on the trailing arm supports, and additionally at the rear ends of the unibody frame rails in rear.

 

Then you will be free to remove Wheels, hubs, diff, crossmember and all.

[yohy]

Toni,

 

If you look at the first .pdf I posted, it appears there is a difference between the wagon and the sedan. "3) Remove crossmember reinforcement lower. (Sedan model only)". So if you do find one, make certain it's off a sedan.

[toni1595]

yohy, I told the guy at the parts yard that it was a sedan but, he couldn't find one. The only difference as far as I can tell, is where the lower arm bolts on, there isn't any holes there on one side. I may be able to just weld another plate in there and use it anyway. There is a bolting plate on the other side. I'll know more when I finish getting the old one off.

 

Gloyale, yes I am concerned about the support. I don't know if the struts will hold very well either. I may have to go and take it off the ramps and block it up. I'm headed back out now and look at it again. When you say "trailing arm supports", are you saying where the ends of the bars that bolt to the cross member,on the wheel ends are?

[toni1595]

After some deliberating, I decided to jack it up where the "frame" is behind the rear tires. I happen to have a couple of the old screw type house jacks and I blocked them up and got it so the tires are off the ramps now. It's up quite a ways. Leaves me plenty of room under there. I trigged the front tires and put the tranny in neutral, so I know it will set still.

 

I think what I'll do is take the two bolted flanges of the driveshaft and undo them. That should allow me to take that out and give me room to remove the differential. After that it should be just a matter of unbolting everything.

 

 

I'll write back when I have some more success.

[Gloyale]

The bar that extends forward from each wheel is the trailing arm. It bolts into a bracket located basically underneath the rear doors, in fromt of the wheel wells.

 

These bars are what transfer all the rotation of the wheels into forward motion of the car. Or to think of it another way, the wheels "push" the chassis forward using those arms as a handle. The point they bolt into is a major structural junction and a good jacking point.

[toni1595]

OK, I have the piece off and I'm pretty sure this replacement one will work, I just need to weld in a plate on the front side of the cross member where the arms connect to it, to anchor the lower reinforcement bracket and I should be set.

 

It didn't go too bad. I am glad I didn't try to do it with the wheels setting on the ramps though, without the arms connected, its quite loose. Thanks Gloyale for that tidbit of info.

 

I'll pop back in after I get the cross member back in and have something of value to report. One thing I'm sure of, some of those bolts and nuts came off pretty hard. Particularly the ones on the back of the cross member where the differential bolts in. I had to split those two.

[toni1595]

Hi all, just wanted to chime in and tell you that the crossmember replacement was a success. I had to wait "another" week to get back to working on it due to a family wedding but, I did get it done and have had it aligned as well. I ended up taking the plates off where the lower reinforcement arms bolt on from the old part and welding them onto the crossmember that I picked up at the junkyard. Otherwise it was an exact replacement. While I had everything apart, I went ahead and painted all the rusted places with Rustoleum Rusty Metal Primer, which I've had real good luck with in the past on such things.

 

I've actually had the crossmember replacement done for couple weeks now, I'm just finishing up with a few rust spots on the exterior of the body and will take it down to her today. I'll probably change the oil and maybe a few other cosmetic touches.

 

I do need a bracket to mount the radio with. My older daughter took the one that was in this one was going to put it in her new car. When she took it to CircuitCity to have it installed, somehow they lost one of the mounting brackets. Now I don't have one to put the old radio back in with. Stupid me shouldn't have let her/them have it. She called them and tried to get it back and they, of course, can't find it. Does anyone have a '95 Legacy radio/cd player bracket kicking around they could part with??

 

Well that's all from here, thanks for the help as always. Toni.