idosubaru Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 1987.5 XT EA82. This car ran about two years ago. Trying to get it running for a friend to drive. On start up it revs to 2400 rpm for a few seconds then lugs and stalls out. Subsequent starts it will die instantly or BARELY hold idle at 300/400 (digital dash) rpms for a few seconds then stalls. Timing belts are definitely dead on, i've owned 20+ XT6's so i've got that down, not too mention i don't trust myself so i checked it a few times! Compression is good. No check engine codes. Don't think there's any vaccuum leaks - except the oil pump refill tube - the gasket at the base is missing. I've seen some EA82's not start/idle right due to vaccuum leaks but i don't think this is it this time. I'm starting another thread about gas - i've always wondered anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDave Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 1987.5 XT EA82. This car ran about two years ago. Trying to get it running for a friend to drive. On start up it revs to 2400 rpm for a few seconds then lugs and stalls out. Subsequent starts it will die instantly or BARELY hold idle at 300/400 (digital dash) rpms for a few seconds then stalls. Timing belts are definitely dead on, i've owned 20+ XT6's so i've got that down, not too mention i don't trust myself so i checked it a few times! Compression is good. No check engine codes. Don't think there's any vaccuum leaks - except the oil pump refill tube - the gasket at the base is missing. I've seen some EA82's not start/idle right due to vaccuum leaks but i don't think this is it this time. I'm starting another thread about gas - i've always wondered anyway. Now that you have a good pump running, check it for volume. You could still have a problem in the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 18, 2008 Author Share Posted July 18, 2008 i ran it for a bit in a can and it seemed to come out fine...just like all the others i've tested before. i'll keep a mind to check that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDave Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Does the gas smell old? We've got a Toyota cab over camper van at the shop with gas in it so bad nobody here wants to work on it. It's symptoms sound very similar to yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 18, 2008 Author Share Posted July 18, 2008 Does the gas smell old? since i pumped some in a can i'll check tomorrow. my sense of hearing and smell are terrible though. it definitely smelled strong...i mean it was all over the place, like you'd expect after removing a fuel pump. i don't know that i would notice a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbone Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 MPFI or TBI? It could be the fuel regulator. See if your getting fuel to the injectors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 18, 2008 Author Share Posted July 18, 2008 MPFI or TBI?. MPFI 1987.5 It could be the fuel regulator.See if your getting fuel to the injectors. nice hit - FPR, i'll definitely check that out. how does that work - you just pull the vacuum line to it and see if gas has ruptured into the vac line right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zukiru Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 yes.. and you can also clamp the return line shut... if it runs right (although rich) then that's the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 18, 2008 Author Share Posted July 18, 2008 hmmm...clamp the return line - why does that work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zukiru Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 the FPR allows fuel to enter (or not) the return line. when it doesn't allow fuel through you have higher pressure. if it's busted the fuel flows straight through and you won't have enough pressure. my camry ran rough because of a return line once. but that was because the pump wasn't picking up because nothing was going back to the cup in the tank. (EA82 has an external pump and won't have a cup) but the line out of the tank could be clogged with fuel gunk. (running the car a day or two solved this) I assume you sea-foamed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDave Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Note: Don't leave your fuel return line clamped off for any longer than it takes to test. Deadheading the pump like that is hard on them. I would just start the car and quickly pinch off the return line to see if it will continue running. If not, look elsewhere for the problem. You can always go back to what I suggested in an earlier thread... hook up the pump inlet to a gas can. This will tell you if it's an issue with fuel quality and/or flow from the tank, or if it's an issue downstream from the pump. Run it like that at least long enough to flush the old gas out of the injectors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 18, 2008 Author Share Posted July 18, 2008 Deadheading the pump like that is hard on them.woah, time to freshen up my fluids and hydraulics lingo! Note: Don't leave your fuel return line clamped off for any longer than it takes to test. so just pinching the fuel return can make it run? if the FPR is busted it it will prevent enough fuel from getting to the injectors? You can always go back to what I suggested in an earlier thread... hook up the pump inlet to a gas can. good call, that's easy enough. i've got a 5 gallon can and the rear of the car is already up with the pump dangling. should be simple enough to try. The FPR is BURRIED on this thing, basically have to remove most if not all of the intake manifold....GRRR. i'm going to do some searching about EA82 FPR's. i think the first thing i'm going to do is try some starter fluid and see if i can get it running that way - that would be the easiest way to verify it's fuel supply related. and i'll try the pinched hose too for kicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDave Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 woah, time to freshen up my fluids and hydraulics lingo! Deadheading is where you completely stop the flow from the pump. Useful to see if the pump is up to it's full pressure capability, but otherwise hard on the pump itself. Use sparingly. so just pinching the fuel return can make it run? It can if flow and/or pressure aren't sufficient. if the FPR is busted it it will prevent enough fuel from getting to the injectors? That I'm not so sure about. Every regulator I've seen go bad has just resulted in a rich mixture - full flow even at an idle. Your problem sounds like not enough flow... somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDave Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 I just though of something else. Many FPRs have a screen at the inlet. I don't know if your MPFI unit does, and it sounds like you don't want to have to find out, but it's something to keep in mind. With any luck running fresh gas through it will clear it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zukiru Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 you might not want to do this either lol but the camry ran better after finding the Vac line for the FPR and giving it a few pulls... a vacuum pump would have been nice right then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 As mentioned, the FPR works by bleeding off flow (and thus pressure) from the injector rails. If it is fubar, it will bleed off so much flow that you will have little if any pressure/flow to the injectors. (Conversely, if its screen is blocked or the return line is blocked/kinked pressure can go to max, the mixture will go rich (probably uncontrollably so), and the "deadheaded" pump will suffer.) Do you have an injector pressure tester? (Simple pressure gauge that "T"s into fuel line near filter.) This could tell you if you are pressurizing your injector rails, and help decide if the FRP is the issue. Another thought (which may have been covered in your gas thread) regards fuel pump power. Ignition turn-on cycles the fuel pump for a couple of seconds and then shuts it off until ECU says it is getting proper pulse rate from distributor. Is the pump just coming on for that initial cycle and then staying off? If not, or don't know, connect the green DIAG/ECU connectors and the pump should go into an on/off cycle insuring that it will be working some of the time... (Sorry, Gary. You probably know this, but we all forget little things at odd moments so I thought that I should mention it. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 19, 2008 Author Share Posted July 19, 2008 thanks NW. i do not have a fuel pressure gauge/tester, but now i know how to use it if get one! in diag mode (green connectors) the pump cycles on/off perfectly and fuel flow appears normal. at the engine. haven't had a chance to look at it any more than that...hopefully tomorrow. thanks guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDave Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 NW does make a very good point. If the ecu doesn't get a crank/cam sensor signal after cranking, the fuel pump won't continue to run. A pressure gauge sure would help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 24, 2008 Author Share Posted July 24, 2008 it was a combination - bad gas and a poor running car. it's running so bad that the poor gas was just enough to make it not start. with fresh gas it starts and idles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDave Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 Yeah that Toyota mini motorhome straightened right up after we siphoned the tank and added fresh gas. It was running so bad before it would spit back in the intake under load and set a maf sensor code. I would suggest you keep a spare fuel filter in the car in case the new one gets stopped up any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now