I have a very sad Brat (engine lacks power)

[moped]

First off, a quick introduction. I became a Subaru owner last fall when I bagged a deer on the way to go backpacking in September. The cars that made the short-list for the replacement were an '86 Brat, and a 95 Forester. I went with the Brat. Miraculously, it ran fine all winter long, but at the beginning of the summer, it started losing power.

 

It will now rev to 3000 rpm at full throttle in neutral, and will barely make it up the slightest incline. I've checked the obvious: Fuel filter (replaced it), air filter (ran it with the top off), timing and advance (bought a timing light), dropped the exhaust off to make sure the catalytic converter wasn't blocked, checked the fuel flow at the filter, ignition coil isn't shorted. The car idles acceptably, the problem shows up as rpm increases.

 

At this point, I've pretty much run out of cheap things that could be causing the problems, and I'm seriously considering just doing the engine swap. This would no doubt go a long way towards solving several other problems: the EA-81 backfires (hard enough that the muffler is puffed up like a sausage), the mileage is lousy (especially in the winter), my mechanic refuses to work on it because it's an emissions disaster (for which I respect his integrity), it consumes coolant (no idea where it's going, there are no visible leaks, and the oil looks pretty clean when I change it) and it always was a bit on the under-powered side.

 

I've read through the guide that is posted at the top of the forum (thank you everybody), and have a couple of questions:

 

1) Can I use the EA-81 flywheel. I understand that it will need to be re-drilled either way, but section 2 specifically refers to an EA-82.

 

2) Where does the spare tire go once you're done with the swap?

 

3) How tough is the wiring harness work? Questions seem to crop up with some regularity on the forum...

 

4) How much of the dash, etc will I need to strip from my Brat?

 

5) While I'm in there I probably ought to replace the clutch disk. Do I need an EA-81 disk, or can I buy an XT-6 clutch kit (provided it's cheaper to do that and buy the Nissan 720 throwout bearing than to buy the parts piecemeal)? I.e. does the tranny for the EA-81 have the same number of splines, etc as the XT-6 one.

 

6) Can I bolt up the EJ Y-pipe temporarily to get it to a muffler shop? I don't own a welder or know how to weld. The tubing on the exhaust is probably a little thinner than I really want to learn to weld on (I'd hate to go burning holes through it)

 

7) Engine out the top or the bottom? I don't own a hoist or a suitable shade-tree, so if I could raise the car, drop the engine on a hydraulic jack and be on my way, that would be sweet. Is the engine taller than I can realistically lift the car on jack stands?

 

8) Are the fuel lines hard to replace? I've seen the pictures of where they run under the door sill, and I know where they poke out of the firewall under the hood. It seems like that could be a treat.

 

9) Where exactly is the ECU on the Brat? The Haynes seem to suggest it's right below the steering column, but I'll be damned if I can find one, or a mess of disconnected wires? I assume I'm looking for something roughly the size and shape of a cigar box, and I can't find it to save myself. I guess this isn't directly pertinent to the swap, but it's been a nagging question for me.

 

I'm of about average mechanical ability. I've swapped a clutch on a '76 Triumph TR-6, and re-booted one of the inner CV joints on the Brat. I do all my own work on my bicycles. Also at my disposal is a willing accomplice who helped with the TR clutch job. He does his own work on his Porsche 914 (and complained constantly about the poor engineering on the TR ;-) He was impressed by the ease of getting to things under the hood in the Brat)

 

Thanks again for the awesome guide and any help down the road.

[Flowmastered87GL]

you could swap it to an EJ engine from a legacy.... but if you want to go the simple route, reseal your current engine (if you can determine the internals are good) head gaskets, oil seals and such and throw on a weber 32/36 carb. Way more power, better mileage and you can take off of most of the emissions stuff and still pass emissions testing (as far as tailpipe emissions go) if they look under the hood not sure (California for example)

[s'ko]

 

1) Can I use the EA-81 flywheel. I understand that it will need to be re-drilled either way, but section 2 specifically refers to an EA-82.

yes. you can use teh 81 flywheel. I did

2) Where does the spare tire go once you're done with the swap?

in the bed, or if you lift it, it might go back in the stock place

3) How tough is the wiring harness work? Questions seem to crop up with some regularity on the forum...

Depends on how good you are with reading diagrams. it's not that hard, but there are a few who will do it for you. myself being one of them.

4) How much of the dash, etc will I need to strip from my Brat?

none. you are keeping the stock BRAT wiring and then using the EJ wiring like a stand-alone engine harness

5) While I'm in there I probably ought to replace the clutch disk. Do I need an EA-81 disk, or can I buy an XT-6 clutch kit (provided it's cheaper to do that and buy the Nissan 720 throwout bearing than to buy the parts piecemeal)? I.e. does the tranny for the EA-81 have the same number of splines, etc as the XT-6 one.

i think so. depending on how hard you drive the 81 is ok. I have an EJ18 in my BRAT and with 29 inch tires I could still do front wheel burnouts.

6) Can I bolt up the EJ Y-pipe temporarily to get it to a muffler shop? I don't own a welder or know how to weld. The tubing on the exhaust is probably a little thinner than I really want to learn to weld on (I'd hate to go burning holes through it)

probably want to get the y-pipe, cat and resonator in there otherwise it will be pretty noisy.

7) Engine out the top or the bottom? I don't own a hoist or a suitable shade-tree, so if I could raise the car, drop the engine on a hydraulic jack and be on my way, that would be sweet. Is the engine taller than I can realistically lift the car on jack stands?

easier to drop the engine in, but if you have the ability, you could raise the engine/tranny in there together.

 

8) Are the fuel lines hard to replace? I've seen the pictures of where they run under the door sill, and I know where they poke out of the firewall under the hood. It seems like that could be a treat.

you are only replacing the soft lines. So it's basically underneath the hood and at the fuel pump.

9) Where exactly is the ECU on the Brat? The Haynes seem to suggest it's right below the steering column, but I'll be damned if I can find one, or a mess of disconnected wires? I assume I'm looking for something roughly the size and shape of a cigar box, and I can't find it to save myself. I guess this isn't directly pertinent to the swap, but it's been a nagging question for me.

If should be located underneath the steering column.

 

I'm of about average mechanical ability. I've swapped a clutch on a '76 Triumph TR-6, and re-booted one of the inner CV joints on the Brat. I do all my own work on my bicycles. Also at my disposal is a willing accomplice who helped with the TR clutch job. He does his own work on his Porsche 914 (and complained constantly about the poor engineering on the TR ;-) He was impressed by the ease of getting to things under the hood in the Brat)

 

Thanks again for the awesome guide and any help down the road.

you should do fine. Just remember if you are doing your own wiring, take it slow and make sure you are cutting the right wires. After you are done you will end up with roughly 1/4 of the wires left in the ECU harness.

 

research what Crockettbrat just did and you can also search for my BRAT build and phizinza as well.

 

Have fun.

 

BW

[TomRhere]

You will only have an ECU if your's has a feedback carb on it. Does the Y-pipe have an O2 sensor in it, right in front of where the 2 pipes from the heads connect at the converter. If not, chances are you don't have an ECU.

 

There are 2 fuel filters. One under the hood, the other is just in front of the left rear tire.

 

A Weber 32/36 carb swap does wonders for these li'l engines. You can pick them up on Ebay for a decent price and rebuild/rejet it cheaply.

[GeneralDisorder]

Given your experience level I would highly reccoment against a swap of that magnitude.

 

The EA81 is an excelent engine, and a poorly done swap does nothing for the value of a collectible vehicle.

 

See my SPFI swap here for small *taste* of what you are getting into with fuel injecting a carbed vehicle - let alone an engine swap on top of it.

 

http://home.comcast.net/~trilinear/EA81_SPFI.html

 

I would sugest doing the SPFI swap or installing a Weber.

 

And get a new mechanic, there is very little emissions equipment on the EA81's. He's obviously scared of vacuum lines and there is no reason to be - 75% of them are not emissions equipment related and have to do with the smooth operation of the Hitachi. The stock Hitachi carb is well designed if somewhat complex - but it's driveability is excelent and they generally last well past 150k without any real maintenance. However - there are good reasons to swap to the Weber and it does simplify the engine bay.

 

GD

[moped]

Wow guys, thanks for the responses so far.

 

On the basis of the advice from everybody, maybe the first thing to do is to get a compression test. There's a garage at the end of my street I can probably take it to for that. That'll tell me whether or not the Weber conversion is even an option.

 

If the compression's okay, I guess that opens up the option of doing the Weber swap. The list for fixing the EA-81 would be along the lines of:

 

1) Head gaskets to cure the coolant leak?

 

2) Rear main seal, and possibly the front too.

 

3) Valve cover gaskets

 

4) Oil pan gasket

 

5) Carb itself (requires some manifold mods, it looks like? I haven't read all of the threads yet)

 

6) Clutch while I'm in there (goes hand in hand with the rear main seal)

 

7) Adjust the lifters

 

8) New water pump

 

9) Ignition issue (it seems to be missing from time to time)

 

10) New muffler

 

Now if I get a lower mileage engine from a yard, that takes a couple things off of the list, notably the gaskets, the ignition issue, the water pump, the front main seal, and possibly the lifters (haven't checked a manual/the forum for an EJ-22 to see if they're hydraulic or solid). The muffler and clutch are a given either way.

 

If the Weber's an option, I guess the question boils down to what's the value of putting time and money in an engine with at least 150000 miles (the odo is stopped there, and I don't know what year it stopped...), versus biting the bullet and getting a whole newer engine.

 

In dollars, the answer seems to break along these lines:

 

(Engine + accessories + adaptor + Y pipe mods at a muffler shop) vs (carb + misc gaskets and seals + water pump + any ignition components I'd need)

 

I know somebody whose dad owns a junkyard (automotive salvage place/whatever), so I'm pretty confident I can at least work it out so I get a running EJ-22 to start the project with, complete with water pump, alternator, etc. There's a clutch shop that re-faced the clutch for the TR-6 when I did that near my office, and I'm sure they can handle changing the holes for the EJ-22.

 

I suppose absent a compression test this is all idle speculation though. I'll see what the garage can do for that Thursday. I'm sure they're going to love doing the cylinders on the driver's side of the engine. I've changed the plugs, and they're a royal pita to get to with the A/C compressor and alternator in the way.

 

On the subject of the ECU, the Y-pipe does have an O2 sensor on it, and the carb is festooned with an array of gee-gaws and doo-dads with wires coming out of them. There is, however no ECU attached to the (roughly) Y-shaped piece of metal welded to the bottom of the steering column. There don't appear to be any cut wires, or enough loose plugs to connect to one either (I count about 30 connections in the diagram in the Haynes). Hence the confusion. I'll snap some pictures when I have daylight if you want to see.

 

On the subject of parts for an EA-81 or EA-82 to do an SPFI conversion (nice guide, GD), I would put my money squarely on being SOL. In Cleveland, salt is the name of the game all winter, and most of the older Subarus around here have long ago rusted into the ground. Mine came from Florida, so it's pretty clean (minus some spots in the bed and a couple places where the undercoating is starting to crack in the seams underneath).

 

Incidentally, I can solder and read a basic wiring diagram. So can Ross (the willing accomplice), so it's mostly a question of getting the time and tools to do job. Notably, getting the engine in and out of the car. If we can do that, I'm fairly confident we can make it all work.

 

I'll let you all know how it comes out!

[GeneralDisorder]

Wow guys, thanks for the responses so far.

 

On the basis of the advice from everybody, maybe the first thing to do is to get a compression test. There's a garage at the end of my street I can probably take it to for that. That'll tell me whether or not the Weber conversion is even an option.

 

If the compression's okay, I guess that opens up the option of doing the Weber swap. The list for fixing the EA-81 would be along the lines of:

 

1) Head gaskets to cure the coolant leak?

 

Probably not. Your problem is almost certainly manifold gaskets or carb base gaskets.

 

2) Rear main seal, and possibly the front too.

 

Why? Do you suspect it's leaking? They rarely fail.

 

3) Valve cover gaskets

 

Sure - those take 10 minutes. Coat them in RTV and let the dry - they will be more effective.

 

4) Oil pan gasket

 

Also easily done in 30 minutes. Same advice as valve cover gaskets. Get both from the dealer ONLY.

 

5) Carb itself (requires some manifold mods, it looks like? I haven't read all of the threads yet)

 

Redline sells an adaptor plate. Install takes an hour or two. Tuning will take a few weeks.

 

6) Clutch while I'm in there (goes hand in hand with the rear main seal)

 

Unless it needs it I wouldn't bother. You can do it without pulling the engine - just remove the radiator and pull the engine up and forward.

 

7) Adjust the lifters

 

Yep - every 15,000

 

8) New water pump

 

Atsugi (OEM). 30 minute job.

 

9) Ignition issue (it seems to be missing from time to time)

 

Are you? Or is it vacuum leaks causing a lean idle?

 

10) New muffler

 

Straight pipe it. Sounds better and cheaper. Gut the cat too. Cut a door and dump the contents. Weld it up and bolt the heat sheilds back on. No one is the wiser.

 

Now if I get a lower mileage engine from a yard, that takes a couple things off of the list, notably the gaskets, the ignition issue, the water pump, the front main seal, and possibly the lifters (haven't checked a manual/the forum for an EJ-22 to see if they're hydraulic or solid). The muffler and clutch are a given either way.

 

Word to the wise - EJ swaps are best left to those of us that have mechanical backgrounds. Fabrication skills are a requirement. Only the most basic components are availible from a select few vendors (like the adaptor plate). Welding and metal working skills and tools are almost a must.

 

If the Weber's an option, I guess the question boils down to what's the value of putting time and money in an engine with at least 150000 miles (the odo is stopped there, and I don't know what year it stopped...), versus biting the bullet and getting a whole newer engine.

 

150k is nothing for the EA81. Most last long past 300k if maintained. The engine internals are almost never a problem - the reason they get crushed is the fuel and ignition systems. People understand little about carbs these days and don't wish to pay more than the car is often worth for expert repair of these systems. The engine's are bulletproof.

 

In dollars, the answer seems to break along these lines:

 

(Engine + accessories + adaptor + Y pipe mods at a muffler shop)

 

Not even close. The engine, adaptor plate, and exhaust mods are almost an afterthought to the *actual* work which is the electrical and fuel systems. You are MUCH better off with an entire donor car to pull the harness and fuel system components from. The Brat's fuel tank is not baffeled so a surge tank has to be fabricated. The entire harness removed from the car and merged with the injection/ignition systems from the EJ harness, ECM mounted, etc, etc. LOTS of people get the engine IN the car. Many, many fewer people get them wired and running (and the ones that do take months to do it).

 

vs (carb + misc gaskets and seals + water pump + any ignition components I'd need)

 

Much more realistic for you. 1/10th the cost too.

 

I know somebody whose dad owns a junkyard (automotive salvage place/whatever), so I'm pretty confident I can at least work it out so I get a running EJ-22 to start the project with, complete with water pump, alternator, etc. There's a clutch shop that re-faced the clutch for the TR-6 when I did that near my office, and I'm sure they can handle changing the holes for the EJ-22.

 

You need the whole car. Prefereably running. For reasons previously mentioned.

 

I suppose absent a compression test this is all idle speculation though. I'll see what the garage can do for that Thursday. I'm sure they're going to love doing the cylinders on the driver's side of the engine. I've changed the plugs, and they're a royal pita to get to with the A/C compressor and alternator in the way.

 

Your compression is likely fine. Buy a $10 gauge and test it yourself. If you can't do *that* yourself you won't get past speculation on an EJ swap.

 

On the subject of the ECU, the Y-pipe does have an O2 sensor on it, and the carb is festooned with an array of gee-gaws and doo-dads with wires coming out of them. There is, however no ECU attached to the (roughly) Y-shaped piece of metal welded to the bottom of the steering column. There don't appear to be any cut wires, or enough loose plugs to connect to one either (I count about 30 connections in the diagram in the Haynes). Hence the confusion. I'll snap some pictures when I have daylight if you want to see.

 

Being you mention salt it's possible the y-pipe was swapped from a 2WD.

 

On the subject of parts for an EA-81 or EA-82 to do an SPFI conversion (nice guide, GD), I would put my money squarely on being SOL. In Cleveland, salt is the name of the game all winter, and most of the older Subarus around here have long ago rusted into the ground. Mine came from Florida, so it's pretty clean (minus some spots in the bed and a couple places where the undercoating is starting to crack in the seams underneath).

 

You are just as screwed for EJ swap cars then because they are the same years. 90 to 94 legacy for an EJ swap, or 90 to 94 Loyale for an SPFI swap.

 

Incidentally, I can solder and read a basic wiring diagram. So can Ross (the willing accomplice), so it's mostly a question of getting the time and tools to do job. Notably, getting the engine in and out of the car. If we can do that, I'm fairly confident we can make it all work.

 

These are NOT basic wireing diagrams. The ECU has a LOT of pins. Doing the wiring *right* almost requires removing the cars existing harness and merging the parts you need from the legacy harness. More power leads will be needed, and the existing wireing splices and plugs need to be R&R'd to insure you don't have any problems. The EA's are notorious for bad electrical connections and I assure you - you don't want to deal with them AFTER you have hacked the piss out of the wireing.

 

GD

[s'ko]

The EJ swap is two basic components.

 

The mechanical and the electrical.

 

The adapter plate that Scott or RGuvyer sells are excellent and priced right.

 

The flywheel redrilling is not that hard to do. There is a dremel metal that I found that works wonders. You are basically taking the holes for the EA81 and ovalizing them so that they will work with the larger EJ bolt pattern. If you have an EJ flywheel to use as a template you are set. EA81 clutch is ok to use, not the best, but I am having no problem with it holding. I think that there is also another person using an EA81 clutch as well.

 

On the BRAT, you will have to ovalize the holes in the crossmember to get the engine mounts to fit.

 

You will also have to make a pitch stopper, although my EJ22T RX doesn't have one yet.

 

Then exhaust has to be done up. It's pretty difficult to make the exhaust to just save the money and have an exhaust shop take care of it for you. I got an Ebay muffler for $25.00 and had and exhaust shop make me 2 1/2 exhaust for $120.00. If I had a proper tubing bender I might try it myself next time b/c I watch him do it.

 

Radiator might be an issue, but I used my stock BRAT radiator w/o any problems. The hoses are something that you will have to source.

 

That's pretty much it in terms of mechanical.

 

Electrical is tracing wires and finding out what goes where. If it's related to the ECU, keep it. If it's not, get rid of it. The scariest part of the harness work is when you have this big bundle of wires that you have determined is not needed and you have to cut them. It can be pretty scary b/c you get to thinking, what if I missed something. For the most part, do not trim any of the wires at the ECU plugs. Trim it at the other end, that way if there is a wire that you need, you can splice it.

 

Hit up crockettbrat b/c he just finished this and see if it's something that you can do.

 

If you are looking for more power, for the money you spend on the weber and stuff to make it go up to let's say 110 hp,

you can EJ it and get 140.

[Flowmastered87GL]

on a note of lacking power... my stock 82 brat with a poor condition STOCK carter/weber (not the weber "32/36" you could install) did 0-60 in about 18 seconds

 

I think it ended up faster than that after the weber swap even with the huge oversize tires it ended up with.

[moped]

After checking on the price of getting a compression test done, I decided to just break down and buy a tester myself. I was kind of hoping to avoid buying another tool I have limited use for, but it sure was cheaper. The three cylinders I could thread it into were reading 170 psi, the fourth woudn't thread in well enough to seal, but the gauge was hitting 90-100 psi before it leaked. Oddly the plug threads in just fine. I think it was more a matter of being unable to get the flexible hose aligned correctly between the vacuum and AC lines.

 

Two problems with this: 1) I can't find a spec in my Haynes manual for what the compression should be. It seems reasonable to assume it's not low, might it be high? Boyle's law seems to suggest I should be seeing around 125 psi, but that assumes an ideal gas and constant temperature, so it's a rough number. Could somebody please let me know what I should be seeing? 2) The engine wasn't at normal operating temperature. The car is a bit loud, and I figured I shouldn't submit the neighbors to the racket of warming it up all the way. I let it run for a couple minutes, so it wasn't stone cold either. In any case, the lack of power manifests itself regardless of engine temperature.

 

While I had the hood open, I pulled out the spare ignition coil I have for the Triumph (it's a Lucas coil, it's never a bad idea to have a spare around for anything Lucas), checked that the primary and secondary resistances were within the same range as the existing coil and swapped it in. No luck on that one either. If there's a problem with spark, it's not the coil.

 

At this point, given the number of other things I get from a newer engine (greatly improved power, for one, a car I don't have to be ashamed to bring to my environmentally-minded mechanic for two), and the things that need to be done anyway (clutch (I've had to adjust it once), and exhaust), I'm leaning towards just doing the swap.

 

Ross thinks he can get us access to a hoist to do the installation, and I think we can probably get enough parts off of the top (alternator, AC compressor, intake manifold, carb, and air cleaner housing) and bottom (oil pan, exhaust)) to get the old engine out of the car via the bottom. That is assuming that the frame isn't in the way. I haven't gotten underneath to check yet, but I will shortly.

 

One more quick question though:

 

GD indicates that the EJ-22 comes from the 90-94 Legacy. Wikipedia suggests it's in the 90-99 Legacy and 95-01 Impreza. I found a thread on the forum relating to a blown '99 EJ-22 motor here. '96 and up will be an OBDII motor, right? Has anybody done one? I can't find any on the who's who list...

 

With that, I guess I'll call the junkyard and see what they have. And then I'll see what my schedule is like for the next month. I know I'm already going to be out of town two weeks in the middle of August, hopefully not a whole lot more than that though.

 

Thanks again for answering questions!

[GeneralDisorder]

'95 and up EJ22's are OBDII and are a bigger pain in the wiring department. '97 and later EJ22's are a redesign and have solid lifters and different heads that are single-port exhaust... there were other changes as well. The 90 to 94 is the most desirable from a swap standpoint.

 

You are still better fixing the EA81. Your compression is quite good at 170.

 

You will be down for an extended period of time doing an EJ swap (to do it right)...... it's a bad idea for you.

 

Ah well - over 10k posts and still people don't listen

 

GD