Timing Belt replacement problem - need HELP!

[SubieJEB]

I took my 2000 Outback to my mechanic to do the 100K timing belt and water pump replacement, but my mechanic is stuck. He replaced the timing belt following instructions from AllData.com and some other resources and seems to have everything lined up. However, when he tries to turn the motor by hand, the #3 rocker gets locked up. Confusing the situation, if he loosens up the rocker bolts a bit it turns OK.

 

He has taken off the heads and is sending those to the machine shop to do some more testing (to see if any of the valves, stems, etc are bent). Everything looks fine using a visual check, so I suspect the machine shop will also say they're OK. Then he'll put the heads back on and we'll be stuck again.

 

HAS ANYONE EVER HAD A SIMILAR PROBLEM???

 

I believe my car has the 2.5L EJ251 SOHC engine.

[lmdew]

Get your car to a Subaru Mechanic. If everything was working fine before he took it apart there is no reason for it to lock up. These are interference engines so if the timing is off, the piston will hit the valve.

 

Who's paying for all of this extra work?

[The Dude]

Get your car to a Subaru Mechanic. If everything was working fine before he took it apart there is no reason for it to lock up. These are interference engines so if the timing is off, the piston will hit the valve.

 

Who's paying for all of this extra work?

 

I don't want to appear to be pedantic, but I believe in the 2.5L the valves can smash against each other as well as the piston. I hope that rocker lock up doesn't equal engine out of time. I would use either the Subaru dealership or an independent mechanic very well experienced with the car.

This is not a good engine for your mechanic to learn on. I agree with Imdew, something doesn't seem right here. Many posters on this board have changed the timing belt themselves. Done absolutely properly, the job goes smoothly. However, this is an interference engine and there is ZERO tolerance for error when changing the timing belt.

[aircraft engineer]

The engine is timed wrong - he used the ARROWS rather than the nicks on the cam gears or missed the crank keyway being "DOWN" in the "in time" position.

 

IF it has interference (which it DOES because it won't turn) IT IS OUT OF TIME and MUST be fixed before rotating the engine with the starter or you are in for a MASSIVE repair bill

 

(I suspect this guy never did a Sub timing belt job before?)

[idosubaru]

welcome to USMB - we can help. i'm from Westminster, MD and drove by catonsville every day to work.

 

this is an interference engine, so do not try and start the car with the belt improperly installed.

 

answer this question: was the engine ever attempted to start after the belts were replaced?

 

it sounds like your mechanic installed the timing belt incorrectly (used the wrong marks most likely, like already mentioned). i hate to hear how this is going to get resolved but i hope you're not paying the repair bills and i hope the job is being done correctly.

 

there are numerous links and discussions on this board about exactly how to do the belt properly. i suggest finding those threads and finding the links to the ENDWRENCH (that's subaru's official website) articles showing exactly how to do this job - pictures included and lots of details.

 

now that the heads are off there are two critical things you need to make sure your mechanic does since he obviously is stumbling a bit:

 

1. make CERTAIN to use Subaru head gaskets. this is "engine specific" information, not "Subaru specific". this isn't true of "all" subaru engines, but it is true of this engine, refuse anything else. the EJ25 has head gasket issues and should not have any other other head gaskets.

 

2. when refilling the coolant make sure to use the Subaru coolant additive required on all Phase II SOHC EJ25's (that's what engine this is). Subaru requires it. again - this is engine specific, not subaru specific information.

 

3. and finally make sure he properly bleeds the coolant - this engine can sometimes be a bear to get all the air bubbles out of. i never have a problem, but others seem too.

 

4. have the valves adjusted now with the heads all off. it's a 100,000 mile item that's a needle in a haystack with the motor in the car. sounds like he's tweaked them a bit anyway.

 

while this is all being done make certain to replace the thermostat and radiator cap as well. cheap coolant system insurance.

 

probably a good idea to print these suggestions out and hand them to him. these are a big deal and will make the difference between having the car another 100,000 trouble free miles and not.

[bheinen74]

call this one a loss, and get a replacement engine.....sorry about the incompetency of the belt job you ended up bending over for....what a bad way to go out...nevber go back to that mechanic again, if you see him on the street, run away the other way.

[SubieJEB]

Thanks for all your comments. My mechanic has been fairly trustworthy over the years - and he claims to have done lots of timing belt changes on Subies. He even lets me buy the parts at the Subie dealer for him to install. Good thing is that I'm not paying for all this labor, bad thing is I need my car and I hope he hasn't done irreparable damage to my engine.

 

As I mentioned, he's used four different professional sources of info to line up the timing belt and all of them agree. Thank goodness he didn't try to fire the motor up with the starter - he has only hand cranked it to this point.

 

I'll definitely have him take care of the things you guys have mentioned while he's got it torn apart.

 

I wonder if something could have been out of whack, or slipped, when he took the belt off. I know he lined it up before pulling the belt off, but maybe he was slightly off?

 

Tis a mystery, hopefully I'll be able to report a solution this week! I still welcome any input...

[torxxx]

One thing to check. I saw this on a 2004 Legacy 2.5 SOHC. Someone put valve cover gaskets on it and they lost a bolt from the valve covers and it was too long. The center bolt will run into the cam and press against it.

 

believe it or not it locked the cam up to where I could turn it like a 1/8 turn each direction and it would stop

 

Might be worth checking.

 

As far as the belt being on wrong, could happen, they do have a few different marks on the pulleys. I put belts on a 03 WRX a few weeks back and the company they bought the engine from had put the belts on wrong and they tried to start it. Suprising enuff it didnt bend the valves. I tore off the old belt and put on a new one in the right spot and everything worked fine, no misfire or anything