pros cons of soobs or Toys

[ezapar]

I'd rather b.s. and wheel than be on the trail the whole time fixing my ride or trying to pull it off of a small stump.

It was like that when I drove my Soobs off road, now it's like that when I drive my Toy. In 3 years of wheeling it, it's never (knock on wood) given me any crap. I'm free to wheel all day and not worry about it.

 

I've said it before, I've proved what I can do in a Soob. I've been thru all of the trails around here, and I absulotely know what the Soobs can and cannot do. You won't find a better spotter in the Soob world than me without looking really hard. The Toy walks thru it all with no complaints and it's still sporting an open diff. As for money. It cost me 4500+ to build the blue 85 brat I had. Less than that for my toy, and that's including a 700 dollar bumper and 500 dollar winch.

 

 

I have pulled out several Soobs with it though. 5 in one day even.

 

 

You can't say that Toyota owners are the same as Jeep owners. It just isn't true. We found that out on the Rubicon trail in '03. The Jeep owners snarled at us when we blocked the trail, had no problems driving thru my shots while I filmed. The Toyota trail boss yelled at his group when one of them bumped one of our broken rigs. The Jeep guys laughed at us on the Pirate board, the Toyota guys vollunteered to carry our heavy gear if we ever made it down again to make it easier on us.

 

Don't have the attitude that Soob owners are better than the rest, or you'll put yourself in the group of elitists you're trying to avoid.

 

And keep in mind, there are some 8-10 former Soob offroaders on this here USMB that drive Toys now. We aren't any different, we don't have any new attitudes, we just don't wheel Soobs all the time any more.

[3eyedwagon]

I'd rather b.s. and wheel than be on the trail the whole time fixing my ride or trying to pull it off of a small stump.

 

Nice choice of picture.

 

In 3 years of wheeling it, it's never (knock on wood) given me any crap. I'm free to wheel all day and not worry about it.

The Toy walks thru it all with no complaints and it's still sporting an open diff. As for money. It cost me 4500+ to build the blue 85 brat I had. Less than that for my toy, and that's including a 700 dollar bumper and 500 dollar winch.

 

If you like "not worrying about it" you had better just be happy with it how it is. I will gladly admit, Toyotas are a more reliable simple wheeler, that is until you start to reach their upper limit. You think changing a CV is fun, wait until you start getting into Birfield joints. My personal best is 21 minutes on the front driver, but that took a few "practice sessions".

 

As far as the build cost. I would have to guess that is all relative. I don't know how you came up with $4500 to build a brat. My wagon has less than a grand in it finished. It may run up to $1500 with improvements, but that's going to be a high guess. That is also WITH the cost of original purchase of the car.

 

I guess a guy could spend $25,000 building a brat, and $500 building a Toy. Or vice versa. It is all really up to the person.

 

You can't say that Toyota owners are the same as Jeep owners. It just isn't true.

 

Who's the elitist now?

 

That's like saying; "You can't say BMW owners are like Mercedes Benz owners."

 

As the former owner of multiple Toyotas, AND multiple Jeeps; I would like to think I was just as much of an @**hole no matter what I was driving!

 

Don't have the attitude that Soob owners are better than the rest, or you'll put yourself in the group of elitists you're trying to avoid.

 

I've never had the attitude that Subaru owners are better than anyone else. I do however gladly have the attitude that those willing to try something a little more difficult, work a little harder for a little less, make something out of nothing, expiriment with building their own stuff no matter what it is, or how horribly it may fail are better than the rest. Plain, and simple.

 

And keep in mind, there are some 8-10 former Soob offroaders on this here USMB that drive Toys now. We aren't any different, we don't have any new attitudes, we just don't wheel Soobs all the time any more.

 

I don't really give a crap about what anyone drives. Chances are that I've owned or driven the same thing before. I only pick on Toyota because soooo many of their owners (especially in this area) are such a PRIME example of complete, and utter ignorance. The kind of ignorance that really should be the target of natural selection. Tuff Country shocks, Wild Country tires, as many lights as the alternator will power, two CB whips, and an aluminum dog box does not a wheeler make. I cannot stop laughing when I see these guys on their side every single winter.

 

So, unless you are the guy that bought his entire lift kit at Les Schwab on his Visa, then insists on charging up every trail with 15 lights on at Noon with chew spit running down the door, and insists on the fact that the Toyota 22r/re is the single greatest vehicle ever built, despite having never turned a wrench on one;

 

don't take it too personal when I rank on your Toyotas.

 

Odds are that I've owned a few, I know their weaknesses like you know the Soobs, and I know the biggest weakness is how much you guys hate it when people speak poorly of them.:-p

[idosubaru]

it's good to be passionate about what you like...whether it be subaru or whatever. this being a subaru board is going to attract people passionate about subaru's. of course there's vehicles that can do things better. but best to let people focus on the positives of what they have and why they drive subaru's - it's obviously a good fit for them.

 

there's a zillion reasons to drive, enjoy and look for the silver lining in subaru's. sure that doesn't mean that should be turned into a "bash everyone else session" but you'll have that in any organization no matter what.

 

toyota's are expensive machines relative to Subarus. you can get good deals on toyota's and spend a lot on brats. Brats being what they are, are not a good comparison given the abnormal demand for them, that's not a Subaru trait.

 

i agree, if i was to do some serious off roading there's no way i'd stick with Subaru for that. i'd still have them for daily driver, commuting and winter snow driving, but not a serious off road rig.

[Scott in Bellingham]

Eric

do you really want to do this?

 

I think weve done this in the past,

 

I enjoy the ride and feel of a subaru over a toyota pickup or any pickup , when you wish you had something else is when your stuck and cant go any further, thats when a toyota would surpass the soobie, now that said 5 years ago I had a 86 toyota extra cab with 31" tires , I loved the truck it looked awesome with chrome wheels and all , it cost me $3000, the most Ive ever paid for any vehicle, I sold it as it wouldnt hold 2 adults and a baby seat, it looked cool but was disapointing offroad, remember this was stock IFS with A/Ts , I like the lightness of the subaru and they feel stable, now the White 88 EA82 wagon I have with a locked rearend and yes a 2.2EJ and some mud tires preforms quite nicely offroad, it will haul my whole family and a bag of snacks , I know its not stock , I have taken stock Subarus offroad with road tires and they just dont go especialy in the mud, now if I wanted I could build up a nice Toyota but I really dont want one, 1 year ago I almost went Sammy , I looked at a few almost bought one but the guy couldnt find the title till I got home and then I decided not to , I like to take my girls with me and the enclosed car really works out well, now I feel the wheelbase on the Subaru is about right, Ive watched many a Sammy roll over on hill climbs on You-Tube , I know you didnt ask about the Sammy but Im throwing it out there , one of the biggest drawbacks of the subaru is Lack of low gears, well if you cut down your vehicles weight, keep the tires under 27" and have more power say a good EA81 or a EJ , yes throw out the EA82 engine then you have a OK offroader, good enough for what I want to do, I really have no desire to go rock crawling and yes I to know the limits of my machine and what it will of will not do and Im happy with that, your Toyaota will go places my car wont but at the end of the day we all end back home anyway, never really went anywhere Just went out to had fun and isnt that what wheelin is all about anyway?? I enjoy a chalenge and building and driving a vehicle to meet the chalenge , Ive been there when axles have broke , radius rods have bent , head gaskets have blown and lift blocks have failed all on a soobie, Ive gone out and watched a Jeep blow a front knuckle , also a Trooper blow a hub , also seen a few tires ripped, seen the steering go bad on a old land cruiser , anyway Im rambling Scott

[ezapar]

My buddy pretty much fabbed up everything on this Toy. Very few things were bought. It wheels awesome.

 

[3eyedwagon]

My buddy pretty much fabbed up everything on this Toy. Very few things were bought. It wheels awesome.

 

 

That, I actually have some respect for.

 

A: It's a wrong year LandLoser (It's a little different), making it not something you'd see EVERY SINGLE DAY.

 

B: If he actually did the work; he knows alot about it.

-What it's capable of

-What the weak points are

-How to get it home

 

That's not the kind of rig, or person you see stuck somewhere just waiting for help of some sort, and I'd be willing to bet he doesn't have a huge head about it either.

[3eyedwagon]

This is Off Topic, I know, but isn't that how this thread got started?

 

I was thinking about it today, and came up with a quandry.

 

How is it that NO auto manufacturers today offer a:

 

small pickup - Inline 4,5 or 6, or V6

 

WITH: a solid front axle.

 

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

With the popularity of pre 86 Toyotas, and the other similar light designs, how can auto manufacturers not at least offer this as an option?

 

The only possible reason I can come up with the is test standards set by the NHTSA (I think thats them). Even still, a sprung under, solid front axle light pickup would have to be passable. It sure seems to me that people would buy them.

 

You could sell enough of the Toyotas in Sedro-Woolley to pay for the whole project!

 

I can think of a bunch of great candidates:

 

GM's Colorado platform

Ford's Ranger

Toyota's Tacoma

Nissan's Frontier

 

There are others, those are just some examples

[NorthWet]

...

 

small pickup - Inline 4,5 or 6, or V6

 

WITH: a solid front axle.

...

No true consumer demand. Period.

 

The average consumer wants a car that they can call a truck. Something that is bigger than a car so that they feel safer. Something "different" from a car so they can say that they are "not like the crowd" and feel special. But, most importantly from the angle of your question, one that has a soft, cushy ride.

 

Compared to IRS/IFS, solid axles suck in day to day driving. Most people commute in their trucks, go to the store in them, take their kids to every conceivable activity under the sun...

 

...except actually get them dirty on a trail. Popularity of older Toyotas are not measured in millions of units, so it is not really profitable to produce.

 

I see no point in anyone "looking down" on someone else's vehicle just cuz it was made by factory XYZ. I like Toyotas (cars and trucks) for certain reasons, just as I do for Datsuns, Porsches, and Subarus. They are not the same reasons because they are not the same qualities. Subaru didn't build there cars as technical trail kings, but as utility go-nearly-anywhere cars. Toyota started building their trucks as trucks, to be used to do real jobs in the real world. (What the new ones have become should be blamed on the consumer market.)

 

Vehicles I have no problems with. Owners... different story. Stick a fart can and stickers and spinning hubcaps on your Honda/Mitsu/Toy/Nissan/...Subaru and I will not think highly of you. Turn your nose up at people enjoying the same pasttime as you just because they don't have the "right" equipment, I will see no point in talking with you.

 

Some cliques grow in power by believing they are better than anybody else; they eventually die out because pretty soon no one is good enough to join.

Other cliques embrace others as brothers, and these will grow larger as the others really do become brothers.

 

My SVX will never eat up a trail as well as a Brat or wagon, let alone your Toyota, but on the highway it is hard to beat.

A brat will still be second fiddle to your toyota, but is probably more fun running around town or to work, and will carry far more stuff than the SVX.

Your Toyota is probably not as comfy and fun to drive in town as a Brat, let alone an SVX, but is far more trail capable and can still haul a half-ton of stuff.

 

To each their own.

[ezapar]

My SVX will never eat up a trail as well as a Brat or wagon, let alone your Toyota, but on the highway it is hard to beat.

A brat will still be second fiddle to your toyota, but is probably more fun running around town or to work, and will carry far more stuff than the SVX.

Your Toyota is probably not as comfy and fun to drive in town as a Brat, let alone an SVX, but is far more trail capable and can still haul a half-ton of stuff.

 

To each their own.

 

Well said. I'd love to drive my Toy as a daily driver. It's a blast to drive around town. I get lots of looks and thumbs up from people all the time. It has the loudest stereo (by far) out of my cars. But, I can't stand to put miles on the mudders. They cost a pretty penny, I like how they work off road.

 

 

Will. I'm not sure why you're so upset. I really do mean to have a discussion about this, not poke fun or try to make you or I feel bad or good. I used the pic above cuz it's the only example I have from the only time I ever went wheeling with you.

 

In the pic below, I can assure you that I didn't see any of them spitting chew out of their windows, and I really doubt that any of them bought their lifts at Les Schabb. I can say that that day of wheeling in the snow and ice at Evans Creek was hands down the best wheeling experience I've ever had.

 

 

The biggest baddest Subaru I've ever got to be around was there that day. There was no way we could talk him into following Ken (after he followed me) thru this hole. (nor any of the other rigs there that day)

 

[ezapar]

And to make you feel better, one did roll on his side on the trail from catching the cliff with his front tire. It was the Soob that pulled him back on his wheels.

[Scott in Bellingham]

heres one of the best outing I went on , I was the only Subaru

 

 

click picture to watch the Video

[TheSubaruJunkie]

Hrm....

 

Not sure what I should say in here. I wheeled Sube's. Albeit not near as hardcore as Eric. I did take my lifted wagon to the Rubicon, but didn't dare go through it. I too know what a Subaru is capable of, and the thought of destroying it out in the middle of nowhere is what kept me off the "big stuff".

 

And before I go any further, I want to stress how different the off-road world is here in CA versus WA or even Oregon:

 

 

vs.

 

 

After building my hatchback, and taking it out to a few places, i realized just how limited I was here. Sure the hatch looked and performed great! However, most the trails I took it to only began as "Subaru-able" trails, and a few miles in I found spots that were unpassable with 27" tires and open front diff.

 

So, I sold off the Hatch as parts, and picked up a cheap $1000 toyota. The toyota was $250 less than that of the hatchback in stock form. The toyota also came with swampers, locked rear end, and 4" of lift.

 

$300 for a hysteer kit. $50 for some used 33's and im only $100 past the initial purchase price of my hatchback except for now, the trails I took my hatch on are nothing more than logging roads leading to the real deal.

 

Do not get me wrong, im not trying to be an elitist. Im just stating the truth as I see it. Subaru's are fun. Driving the toyota over rocks is a no brainer. You just point, gas, and go. Its fun, but its not the same as wheeling a subaru at all. I still miss the hatchback.

 

I get waves from all Toyota drivers here when im in my truck (and believe me, the Toyota cult is here is much like the Subaru cult up north). And I get fingers and bad looks from Jeepers. But definatly nowhere near as many looks, thumbs up, or smiles the Hatch got!

 

The end result is, we get to go out and play. We go where we want, and how we get there is irrelevant. But its making it home at the end of the day that really counts!

 

 

 

[audio_file]

I'd rather b.s. and wheel than be on the trail the whole time fixing my ride or trying to pull it off of a small stump.

 

why don't you stay at the toyota site and leave the rest of us alone, enjoying the cars that this web site is dedicated to.

 

b.t.w., next time you need to show a pic of a soob struggling on a trail to prove some kind of point (not sure exactly why you'd post an anti-subaru thread on a SUBARU website[??]), why don't you pick one thats NOT MINE.

 

love you

 

chris

 

just remembered, as an aside regarding your closed minded stereotypical comments about jeep owners, that on that day at reiter's pit when my COMPLETELY STOCK 3AT pushbutton 3WD car had that bit of trouble . . . a really nice lady in a BRAND NEW jeep wrangler pulled me out of a hairy situation :-\ she even damaged her 35k rig helping me and when i offered to pay to fix the damage, her reply was something to the effect of "thats just the way it should be, don't worry about it"

 

you wouldn't remember this, you were busy making impatient comments about how i was slowing you down (even though you were at the front of the line, trying your hardest to help NO-ONE) i don't recall you helping in any way . . . hmmmm typical toyota owner if you ask me . . .

[TheSubaruJunkie]

Audio File, quit trying to pick fights.

 

If you have something meaningful to add to this topic, please do share.

 

I have wheeled with Eric, and the only thing I have to correct him on... is him being the best spotter. Ken did a magnificent job spotting me... eric did a great job creating a line for everyone else to follow.

 

He has reason to be upset if a half broken automatic bone stock subaru tagged along with him. I would be just as upset if it were me.

 

Rule #1 about off-roading: Know the limits of your machine, and be prepared to fix your *************** if it breaks.

[ezapar]

why don't you stay at the toyota site and leave the rest of us alone, enjoying the cars that this web site is dedicated to.

 

 

I own two Soobs currently. I've owned some 35-36 total. I didn't buy in a few months ago and pretend I know it all. I'm not here to be mean or scream and yell every time something upsets me. This thread is a discussion, in the NON-SOOB forum. Nobody's putting anybody down, except you.

 

Keep in mind, you were warned not to take your car on that trail, but you did anyways.

 

you wouldn't remember this, you were busy making impatient comments about how i was slowing you down (even though you were at the front of the line, trying your hardest to help NO-ONE)

I put my back into it, I helped push your car when it was stuck. If I seemed not to be patient, it was cuz it was the 10 millionthed time I was in that situation. The novelty of pushing cars that had no business on the trail gets old.

 

Didn't you go away mad?

 

i've never had anything so rediculous happen to me in all my life (interwebs or otherwise) and i'm glad it's over.

 

thank you to

oneeye

3eyedwagon

connie

rob

 

you few are the rare exception to this town's cancer.

 

to those who know they have this coming . . . eat "____" and bark at the moon. (IN OTHER WORDS "____ ___")

 

you MAY remove me now

[3eyedwagon]

Wow,

 

Sucks that this has turned into this deal all over again, and I honestly mean that to all parties involved.

 

I was honestly looking at having an enlightening conversation this go round, and I think it was well headed on the right track.

 

I think my best option at this point is to only address the topics which I find interesting, and ignore all those I don't find enjoyable. Seems pretty common sense to me.

 

No true consumer demand. Period.

 

The average consumer wants a car that they can call a truck. Something that is bigger than a car so that they feel safer. Something "different" from a car so they can say that they are "not like the crowd" and feel special. But, most importantly from the angle of your question, one that has a soft, cushy ride.

 

I agree that for the most part, you are probably correct in your opinion. I totally agree with you that the majority of "trucks" sold today are nothing more than a shiney trinket designed to make the owner feel "different" from the rest of the crowd.

 

I do however believe that there is room for AT LEAST the option of a straight axle light truck in todays market. While they may not sell AT ALL in the more urban areas, I do believe they would have great success in the more rural towns, such as the area I live in. My brother, two of his friends, and I were some of the first to put straight axles under the 1994 era Toyota pickups. The first two were full custom jobs, then we found the AllPro weld in kits. Since then, we have done a few more of these jobs. I cannot believe how popular they have become, and not even with the strictly wheeling crowd. There are numerous examples cruising around my valley that look like nearly stock pickups, with the exception of a solid front axle. People have payed GOOD money to have this work done, and not always for a huge offroad machine. Many just want a solid commuter with more capabilities than their stock IFS system, and the amenities of a newer pickup.

 

From what I have seen; there is room for this to be an option on some light trucks, and I honestly believe some auto manufacterers (ESPECIALLY Toyota) are really missing out.

 

Will. I'm not sure why you're so upset. I really do mean to have a discussion about this, not poke fun or try to make you or I feel bad or good. I used the pic above cuz it's the only example I have from the only time I ever went wheeling with you.

 

In the pic below, I can assure you that I didn't see any of them spitting chew out of their windows, and I really doubt that any of them bought their lifts at Les Schabb.

 

Eric,

I'm not sure that you understand my sense of humor, or something is being lost in the interwebs. I think you have honestly confused my sense of amusement with upset/anger. I think any of my friends can back me up as to the sincerity of my completely lackadaisical attitude. Just ask Jeff. I must read as a complete, and utter serious Ahole, but almost all of this is written with a grin on my face. I cannot be more honest when I state; At the end of the day, I do not give a flying leap about what anyone is up to, unless it risks my reputation, those of my friends, or threatens any of my friends in any way.

 

There are people out there ruining each, and every recreation. Be it fly fishing or hot air ballooning, there is somebody out there right now ruinging it, and somebody like me laughing, and shaking their head about how they are doing so.

 

Like I said earlier, I think the drive to make that CASH plays alot into it. This a philosophy/theory that I'd be happy to further explain, in a better time/better place. But the short version is this: The more money is involved in a hobby, the more likely the chance of it being completely ruined by idiots. The greater the chance of profits, the lower the percentage of true compassion.

 

I still think the picture was a poor choice, and a chance to "twist the knife". I personally would have done without it. I would've gotten the point.

 

 

a really nice lady in a BRAND NEW jeep wrangler pulled me out of a hairy situation :-\ she even damaged her 35k rig helping me and when i offered to pay to fix the damage, her reply was something to the effect of "thats just the way it should be, don't worry about it"

 

I had kinda forgotten about this Chris. That lady was THE PERFECT EXAMPLE of how wheelers should be. There could not have been a kinder person, that was more grounded or humble, despite the fact of an incredibly nice vehicle. She was a great balance of helpfullness mixed with the cautionary advice that this shouldn't be an on-going occurence. It really could not have been handled much better on her behalf. Alot of people could take note of the kind of attitude that lady portrayed.

 

He has reason to be upset if a half broken automatic bone stock subaru tagged along with him. I would be just as upset if it were me.

 

Rule #1 about off-roading: Know the limits of your machine, and be prepared to fix your *************** if it breaks.

 

As someone who has been on both ends of this spectrum multiple times; I can both understand, and condemn your idea here.

 

I've been the one both leading the pack, constantly waiting for the "weakest link", and the "weakest link" holding up the entire pack. Neither is a very enviable situation.

 

I do however think there are reasonable ways to handle the situation.

 

My opinion is that EVERYONE DESERVES AN OPPORTUNITY to go wheeling. I don't care if you are driving a custom built, coil springed tube buggy, or an Automagic Subaru station wagon. Everyone should get to go wheeling. While I understand the burden that it is being one of the more capable vehicles, I also think that it is a responsibilty to help out the less capable guy. Whether it be teaching them how to operate a come-a-long (someone had to teach me), or just helping them get their stuff home. I'm not saying that it is the responsibilty of the more capable vehicles / operators to ensure that everyone has a good time, and makes it everywhere on the mountain. However, taking along a "new guy" in a less than capable vehicle is something the should be done at least once. Obviously the guy doesn't get a life pass, and unlimited pull-outs, but the first trip is a freebie. I'm honestly happy to take new guys out, and help them learn how everything works. Things like picking lines, safe vehicle recovery tips, trail preparedness, etc.

 

I mean after all, I didn't start out wheeling in a full out trail rig, with a firm grasp of the necessary tricks.

 

Plus, you never know when you may need to call that person in the middle of the night to help you get your junk home (I've had to use this one once)

[ezapar]

Ok cool Will. I'll take your comments with a grain of salt now that you've explained yourself to me.

 

I have to admit, I've been on trails I had no business on. The first time at Evans Creek, I was with a group of stock Soobs. We only got to do one trail, and it took us all day. But it made me want to get serious about wheeling Soobs.

 

This was @96.

 

This was about 93 or so. I got it stuck all of the time. It was a jeep that pulled my soob out. (but he charged us 10 bucks) He wasn't able to pull out the one next to me, we had to go find someone with a winch and snatch block.

 

 

 

Here's one to give you a tickle. The guy was showing off at WCSS3 and wound up on his side.

 

 

But it happens to the best of us.

 

[ezapar]

More proof for your pudding.

 

[TheSubaruJunkie]

Wow,

 

Sucks that this has turned into this deal all over again, and I honestly mean that to all parties involved.

 

I was honestly looking at having an enlightening conversation this go round, and I think it was well headed on the right track.

 

I think my best option at this point is to only address the topics which I find interesting, and ignore all those I don't find enjoyable. Seems pretty common sense to me.

 

 

It is entirely possible to have an intelligent conversation regarding these two type's of off-roading. Lets just try and keep sarcasm and our sense of humor out of it so we do not confuse eachother and turn this into a food fight.

 

 

I cannot say I have ever been the burdon on a wheeling trip. But then again, I do not wheel with large packs like the Hatch Patrol does. Even with my 'Yota it is just me and my co-worker. I tend to stray away from the large packs of off-road groups, because there will always be one guy who is not prepared and will rely on someone from the group.

 

The local Toyota club here has guidelines if you want to join them on their trip. They have a pack list with required tools, spare parts, and equipment that is necessary to rescue your rig. Nowhere in there does it say they will not lend a helping hand, all it boils down to is you be responsible for your rig and your party. The same should go for any sportsman willing to venture into the wilderness in their car/truck.

 

This has turned from a pros/cons for Subaru v.s. Toyota into a debate against those wanting to wheel, and those willing to sacrifice half a day to help unprepared wheelers. Im sure thats not what Zap intended.

[ezapar]

No biggie Brian. This thread came about when we went off topic in rkirky's thread.

 

Light hearted ribbing is welcome. Discussion and contribution even more so.

[Spiffy]

I'd rather b.s. and wheel than be on the trail the whole time fixing my ride or trying to pull it off of a small stump.

I agree... I like to actually cover some ground and see the sights... I don't want to do anything radical and risk breaking things and spending my "fun time" getting back on the road...

 

there's always gonna be jeep/toyota/subaru people with attitudes... but that's just because subarus are better and we're better people for owning them... (: and if you own both you're obviously better than me...

 

I won't be rock crawling in my subaru... but I'll get to see lots of beautiful scenery while being comfortable and carrying people and gear...

 

subaru does what I need it to... but I would go toyota if I needed something serious... but it's more fun to do it in a car and have people look at you kinda weird...

 

I'm all for helping the less capable... wait, I am the less capable... but I don't mind stopping to pull people off stumps... or pulling a truck out of the snow with my wagon...

 

what goes around comes around...

 

 

--Spiffy

[SubPar]

Pfffffft, four wheel drive, what a joke! Anything less than six wheel drive is junk.

 

http://www.4x4road.com/tipspinz.html

[ezapar]

or pulling a truck out of the snow with my wagon...

 

what goes around comes around...

 

 

--Spiffy

 

Indeed, and I agree. The photos can be priceless.

[Phizinza]

**** you, donuts are awesome!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, seriously.

Ok, Subaru's have their place in 4wding. Same goes for Toyota's. Just because Subie's can't go as hardcore as Toy's doesn't mean they are less of a vehicle.

Most of the problem here I gather is due to someone saying Toy's are crap. To these people, you are being hypocritical in saying this as all cars are crap.

[TeamCF]

All I know is I love wheeling my Soob.

The look on a guy's face that just had a heck of a time getting up a section trail with a fully locked rig on 36's is priceless when you pick a good line and clear it your first try in a Soob. And he was not a novice, just made a bad choice at the bottom and got overconfident.

Sometimes I wish for solid axles and creeper gears. But then I find another trail that's fun and forget about it.

 

The Soobs are a good learning rig. Forces you to really plan out your line down a trail, and learn fast. So when you move on, you'll be that much better.

 

And so far have been lucky to not experiance the hatred between the owners of different rigs.

 

The group I've been wheeling with lately runs Jeeps, Toys, Fords, just about all of it. And most runs always have new peeps in the group. No attitude from any of them. And they all love the Subaru. Understanding when I opt to just meet them at the other end of the trail and take the road. And getting all kinds of excited when I follow them up a "No way!" kind of trail.

 

Just have fun with what ya got. Improve it where you can. When you outgrow it, move on.

But always just have fun with it.

 

Simple.

 

And just to be a smartass.

My Soob is a toy!

(Only pavement it see's is whats between me and the trails. Got a new little econobox for daily driving.)