Strange noise on turns - Torque Bind?

[Wxman]

2000 Outback - Auto - 122K miles

 

Our car has developed a new noise in the past few weeks...an occasional groan on turns. Based on what I've read here, my first thought was torque bind.

 

However, if I understand correctly, torque bind does not occur with the FWD fuse installed. This groan still occurs with the FWD fuse installed.

 

My other thought is that it could be the power steering. Our original rack (that was leaking) was replaced with a rebuilt rack (with new tie rods) a few weeks before the noise started.

 

The car has been quite a noise maker the past couple months. In the interest of full disclosure, the right front axle and both front wheel bearings have been replaced in the past two months.

 

Any ideas? It is pretty frustrating. We've maintained this car well and only needed fluids, filters, tires, brakes, and timing belt maintenance to this point. I didn't expect the whole front end to go bad at 120K!

 

Thanks!

[Gnuman]

Groan on turns. . . Is that a groan for just an instant (could be struts compressing)? Or is it a more sustained groan, like perhaps the P/S pump dying?

I also would not expect all of your front end parts to go bad all at once, particularly at that low milage. . .

 

Was the car in a wreck?

[Wxman]

The groan is sometimes very brief, sometimes a bit longer. In no case does it last as long as the wheel is turned.

 

The car was hit in the drivers side rear wheel (pretty much a T-bone) around 60K miles. Even after repairs, the rear has been on the creaky side. No impact to the front though.

 

The front axle was replaced because the inner CV-boot tore. Since the labor was the same, figured it was better to do the axle.

 

The front wheel bearings were replaced a few weeks apart from each other. Neither of them made any noise until they destroyed the hub. The noise they were making sounded more like a rhythmic brake noise, not the speed sensitive noise I and my mechanic were accustomed to.

 

Also forgot to mention, the struts are new in the past 5K miles as well.

[Gnuman]

is the sound more pronounced on harder (or sharper) turning? Still leaning toward the P/S pump. How is the P/S fluid level?

[Wxman]

I haven't really noticed a pattern in how loud/long the noise occurs. For instance, I could drive in a tight circle and not get the noise, or I could make a more gentle turn around a street corner and get the noise.

 

The P/S fluid level is fine. Could the "fresh" seals in the new rack be suddenly causing problems with the pump?

 

While I am describing the noise as a "groan", it also bears some resemblance to a low pitched brake rub you may hear when gently stopping the car from a barely moving state. The brake pads/rotors are nearly new and a seized caliper slide was fixed when the pads and rotors were done.

[OB99W]

Do you hear the noise if the steering wheel is turned from lock to lock with the car not moving?

[Wxman]

Not it the couple times I've tried it. However, the frequency of the noise is low enough that it may have been dumb luck. I'll try it a few more times (but my wife has the car at the moment).

[OB99W]

Not it the couple times I've tried it. However, the frequency of the noise is low enough that it may have been dumb luck. I'll try it a few more times (but my wife has the car at the moment).

When you do it, try a few times, using different rates of turning the steering wheel. Don't hold the wheel at either lock for any significant time.

 

Turning the wheels while the car is stationary puts a lot of stress on the power steering, so if the noise is never evident under that condition, it's unlikely the problem is due to a PS problem. (Of course, the intermittent nature of the noise occurance has to be taken into consideration.)

[Wxman]

I'll give it a try, thanks!

[CNY_Dave]

The solenoid that activates when you insert the fuse could be bad- that could be the cause of the binding, if that is what's occurring.

 

That doesn't usually get described as a groaning, though.

 

 

Dave

[nipper]

Well there are the obvious things. If the car has not had a tranny flush in last three years its due.

 

Check the power steering fluid level. If its a PS groan it will make the noise with the hood open as you slowly turn the wheel.

 

Other thngs that may cause a groan, a coil sping, a bad wheel bearing, a grake pad or lazy brake caliper.

 

nipper

[Wxman]

Trans has been flushed in the past 6 months and has been done regularly since the car was new. Both front wheel bearings are new, brake pads/rotors are new. The caliper glides were recently disassembled and greased and the piston didn't seem to bind.

 

Coil springs are original, but the struts were replaced earlier this year and the mechanic did not say anything about the springs. The springs look "clean", but I know you can't tell anything about their tension from looking at them.

 

Is there a way to check if the the solenoid is faulty when you install the FWD fuse?

[johnceggleston]

Is there a way to check if the the solenoid is faulty when you install the FWD fuse?

if you are familiar with how the car drives and handles, you will be able to notice the difference with the fuse in. especially changing lanes on the hiway at speed. with the fues in it feels like a front wheel drive car, which it is.

 

even if you don't drive the car that much, you should be able to tell a difference with the fuse in when you drive it.

 

my vote is for low power steering fluid.

[nipper]

A quick test:

 

Fuse out floor the car.

 

Put the fuse in and floor the car.

 

One will spin the tires (the 2nd).

 

 

nipper

[BoostedBalls]

my vote goes for bad CV, eventhough it was replaced. There's lots of crappy "rebuilt" units being sold for these cars.

 

 

if the problem only happens while the wheels are spinning, yeah CV.

If the problem happens even if the wheels aren't turning, I would do a good inspection on the ball joints and such. Since it was crashed, you could have some geometry off which could put a ball joint into a binding situation.

 

If you still think it's the power steering pump- pull the belt off and drive around and see if the problem is still there. Don't worry, the water pump is still pumping because it's attached to the timing belt.

[carolinagal]

I have an 03 Baja.....I also have a steering noise...sounds tio be like a kind of scraping noise...sounds like in the steering column somewhere. Does not happen all the time...and not same level or length when it does.

 

Thoughts?

[WoodsWagon]

I'm with BoostedBalls on it being a ball joint. In all the parts you listed as being replaced, you never mentioned the ball joints. When a ball joint dries out, they often groan when you turn the steering. going over big bumps may cause it to groan too. The noise starts out being irregular, but will soon turn to happening every time you move the steering wheel. The noise is amplified by the brake dust shield vibrating and the control arm resonating. Each ball joint is about $45 for a decent MOOG one, or $20 for an el cheapo.

[Wxman]

Thanks for all the ideas, everyone! There sure is a wealth of knowledge/experience on this board. I've been out of town the past couple of days (not with the Outback though), and have been unable to do all the checks suggested. I will check everything out and report back. Unfortunately, due to the intermittent nature of the noise, I may have to wait until it gets worse. I just don't want to cause more damage though.

 

Regarding the recent suggestions of ball joints, I asked the mechanic about them when he had the knuckle out for the wheel bearings. He said they seemed OK. There was no leakage and they were still tight.

[Wxman]

It has been a while, but I'm fairly confident my steering "groan" has been solved. I found a TSB at the following link, and the bolt and clamp have been removed. It is interesting that the original rack did not make this noise, but the noise began after installation of the rebuilt rack.

 

http://www.scoobymods.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3711