Replaced Contacts, Now it just Clicks

[kimokalihi]

Once in a while my start just clicks and nothing happens. So I bought this starter kit off ebay.

 

ClickerFixer Start Kit

 

I believe someone here recommended it a long time ago. Last night I finally got around to replacing the contacts and the plunger and now it just clicks. I took it back out, made sure the contacts weren't crooked causing the plunger to only touch one side. Then I pressed the plunger in all the way by hand and used a multimeter to make sure it was making a complete circuit and it was.

 

Any ideas? Where should I go from here? I'm tempted to just go to the junkyard and get a new starter because this baffles me.

 

Just for the record, this is my first time doing this. When I got the starter out the first time I accidently removed the wrong cap. I unscrewd those two long bolts and pulled the top off the starter motor I believe. Then I realized that it wasn't the right cap and quickly put it back on. I don't know if this has anything to do with it not working but I thought I should mention it just in case.

 

Thanks

[hohieu]

Does it click just once or repeatedly?

[Cougar]

When you pulled the end cap of the starter motor by mistake you may have disturbed the brushes for the motor. They are spring loaded and contact the commutator of the motor. If you have 12 volts at the main battery lead on the solenoid, while it is on, then the trouble is inside the starter motor. The brushes may also be bad and you need to replace them like you did the contacts. If the voltage is low at the solenoid (<9 volts) then the main battery lead appears to be bad or the connection to the battery is dirty. Check the ground cable also.

[kimokalihi]

It just clicks once every time you turn the key.

 

How do I check the voltage of the starter when it's on? With the ignition turned to "on" or while the key is turned all the way?

 

The battery has lots of power, it's an optima red top with 800cca I believe. The cable looks great. I wouldn't suspect either since it worked fine before I replaced the contacts.

 

Should I go get a new one from the junkyard?

[Cougar]

Check the voltage on the main battery lead where it ties to the solenoid, while the key is turned to the START position. If you have 12 volts there at that time then the starter is defective.

[hohieu]

Cougar has it all pretty much covered.

 

The starter motor brushes rarely wear out. Make sure that they're seated correctly and moving freely. You could also spray some contact cleaner on the commuator and brushes, while you're in there.

 

On my jeep, the starter hangs right under the oil filter and the mix of oil and graphite/copper dust gummed up the starter brushes causing a couple of them to wear prematurely.

 

If you're getting a click though, I would suspect something with your solenoid and connections.

[kimokalihi]

I emailed the clickerfixer guy I bought the kit from and I think he's telling me the motor may be toast.

 

Did you take the two phillips screws out?

Did you remove only the Cap or did the entire motor come out with the armature - or did the armature come out as well?

If the Armature stayed in the Starter then it pulled out of the brushes - and if it did and you did not

rest them - then when you put it back together it likley broke them and if it did it will never do anything

more than click now.

 

That sound right?

[Hendrik]

Once in a while my start just clicks and nothing

 

 

Thanks

 

You could look at http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=65843

[Cougar]

The advice the clickerfixit guy gave you is correct.

[kimokalihi]

Just checked the junkyard. No starters. I found one but it was all froze up and nasty.

[kimokalihi]

Alright well I took the whole motor out and wiped it all off with a rag. I was looking at it and it seemed really simple to me. I'm not sure how removing it would have caused it to not start. There was only one moving part and that was the whole spindle dealio. It was quite dirty and I wiped off all the dirt and put it back in.

 

Then I opened the other side again and noticed the contact was crooked. I had checked this before and I think the problem was when I was tightening the bolt on the positive terminal it was turning and causing the contact to be crooked and not getting a conneciton.

 

I tightened it up real good and then took a 1/4" extension and a hammer and tapped the contact back down flat and put it back together. Bolted the starter in and the car started right up! Thank god.

 

Thanks for the help guys!

[hohieu]

Bravo! Glad you got it fixed.

[OB99W]

[...] Then I opened the other side again and noticed the contact was crooked. I had checked this before and I think the problem was when I was tightening the bolt on the positive terminal it was turning and causing the contact to be crooked and not getting a conneciton. [...]

Since most Denso reduction drive starters are fairly similar, the following link should help anyone replacing contacts in the starter solenoid: http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12746 .

Note the use of a press to hold the contacts flat while the nuts are tightened.

[kimokalihi]

Nice writeup, good stuff. Thanks

[kimokalihi]

OK, well I guess the starter isn't fixed. Or maybe it's not the starter. It works sometimes. Sometimes it doesn't. It will still click but won't go. Then we waited a minute and did it again and it went.

 

This is frustrating. I hate electrical problems. It's like the car knows I'm trying to sell it and it's angry with me and it's messing with me and making it as difficult as possible to sell it. At least that's how it seems.

[kimokalihi]

Just took some measurements with the multimeter.

 

- Main power terminal on the starter reads 12.2v with the car off key off.

- Ignition Power turn on wire is getting 11.97v with the key all the way to start.

- 4ohms resistence from the body of the starter near the ground cable to the negative battery terminal.

 

As far as I know, those are all good readings. That's not saying much though because I'm no expert with electricity.

 

So it has to be the starter. I think it's the contacts. They must not be aligned just right or one is higher than the other even though I did the best I could to get them flat. I did use a dremel to trim some of one of the contacts off because it had a piece that came out to the side and the original contact didn't have this. When it didn't work the first time is when I trimmed it thinking maybe that was the problem. I also trimmed the curved edge a little because the curve of the contact did not match the curve of the hole that the plunger goes in.

 

So just in case, I've ordered another set of contacts from the same guy and I'm going to put them in just the way they arrive and see if that works. What I need to do is locate someone with a press and have them use the press to hold the contacts down flat while I torque down the nuts. Actually I know someone who has a press!

 

If that doesn't work...I don't even know. I know the stupid starter works because sometimes it'll start right up but most of the time it's just clicking.

 

Has to be the contacts right?

 

(Insert "yes" right here please)

[J A Blazer]

I replaced the contacts in a Denso starter (for my Lexus) and had no problems at all. Yes, one of the contacts is asymetrical, so grinding yours may have inadvertently caused a problem. I had no problem keeping the contacts 'flat' while I torqued the nuts, and didn't use a press.

[OB99W]

[...]- Main power terminal on the starter reads 12.2v with the car off key off.

- Ignition Power turn on wire is getting 11.97v with the key all the way to start.

The "Main power terminal" reading is somewhat low -- a fully charged battery would usually read closer to 12.6v if all the connections are good.

 

 

- 4ohms resistence from the body of the starter near the ground cable to the negative battery terminal.

That reading is way too high, unless you left out a decimal point, etc. The resistance should be a fraction of an ohm.

 

First, just short the two meter leads together (in the "Ohms" position, naturally), and make sure the reading is close to zero. If not, either zero the ohmmeter if it has that function, or just make note of the reading and subtract that from any resistance measurement you make.

 

By the way, small voltage drops in cables that are carrying current can cause false resistance readings. (Resistance measurements are supposed to be made with all power disconnected.) If the positive battery terminal was connected while you checked the ground circuit resistance, the reading might have been misleading.

 

If the ground circuit really measures 4 ohms, you have a ground cabling problem. Check the connections for corrosion, and if that's not the problem, the cable terminals might not be making solid connection to the cable itself (corrosion sometimes develops inside, where it's not visible). If you get a reading over a fraction of an ohm between the terminals of a battery/ground cable (end to end), it's bad.

 

 

[...]Has to be the contacts right?

 

(Insert "yes" right here please)

Sorry, but no, it doesn't have to be the contacts. Please check what I mentioned about the cabling before going back to the starter. If you can get someone to work with you, measure voltage drops while the key is held in the "start" postion -- from positive battery terminal to starter main one, and from battery negative terminal to starter body. Let us know what those readings are.

[OB99W]

[...]I had no problem keeping the contacts 'flat' while I torqued the nuts, and didn't use a press.

It can be done, but it's a lot easier to keep the contacts in position if a press is used. I've used blocks of wood and a large C-clamp, although that's not the easiest or best method.

[kimokalihi]

The "Main power terminal" reading is somewhat low -- a fully charged battery would usually read closer to 12.6v if all the connections are good.

 

 

That reading is way too high, unless you left out a decimal point, etc. The resistance should be a fraction of an ohm.

 

First, just short the two meter leads together (in the "Ohms" position, naturally), and make sure the reading is close to zero. If not, either zero the ohmmeter if it has that function, or just make note of the reading and subtract that from any resistance measurement you make.

 

By the way, small voltage drops in cables that are carrying current can cause false resistance readings. (Resistance measurements are supposed to be made with all power disconnected.) If the positive battery terminal was connected while you checked the ground circuit resistance, the reading might have been misleading.

 

If the ground circuit really measures 4 ohms, you have a ground cabling problem. Check the connections for corrosion, and if that's not the problem, the cable terminals might not be making solid connection to the cable itself (corrosion sometimes develops inside, where it's not visible). If you get a reading over a fraction of an ohm between the terminals of a battery/ground cable (end to end), it's bad.

 

 

Sorry, but no, it doesn't have to be the contacts. Please check what I mentioned about the cabling before going back to the starter. If you can get someone to work with you, measure voltage drops while the key is held in the "start" postion -- from positive battery terminal to starter main one, and from battery negative terminal to starter body. Let us know what those readings are.

 

Could have misread that. I'll measure it again tomorrow with the battery disconnected.

 

Just so I understand what you're asking, I should measure the voltage from the battery positive to main power terminal on the starter with the key off and then with the key on and then the same thing with the battery negative and starter body?

 

I should be able to do that after I wake up in the afternoon.

[OB99W]

[...]Just so I understand what you're asking, I should measure the voltage from the battery positive to main power terminal on the starter with the key off and then with the key on and then the same thing with the battery negative and starter body? [...]

Close, but just take those voltage readings with the key in the "start" position (engine cranking, or at least would be if things were working correctly) -- no need for "key off" measurements. The readings should be low, by the way, if all's okay.

 

Of course you'll need another person to help, unless you have a way to safely attach the meter leads while you turn the ignition key. (I know some of you are thinking "use a remote starter", but I'd rather leave that out of this.)

[kimokalihi]

Last night when I took the first measurements I managed to stick the positive lead into the clip on connector of the wire that comes from the ignition and stick the negative into a crevice on the battery negative terminal and turned the key myself.

 

There should be someone here now so I'll get help.

[kimokalihi]

I just went out in the garage and tried to take the measurements you asked for. But failed. The car started right up. So I couldn't get a measurement. So I disconnected the coil and cranked it while trying to get a measurement but the readings were sporadic. Back and fourth from .1v to 12 and everywhere in between like a strobe light.

 

But it starts now. Which doesn't mean anything to me because it started yesterday and then when I went to my girlfriends house it wouldn't start at 2 in the morning when I needed to go home. Then we waited a minute and tried it again and it worked.

 

I don't know where to go from here.

[hohieu]

Sorry to hear that you're still at it. When it acts up, have you tried tapping the solenoid to try to get it going? If all your connections are clean and tight, this intermittent problem sounds to me like an issue inside the solenoid -- either the plunger is not moving freely or the contacts themselves are not aligned. Next time you have it open, check to see that there's nothing impeding the travel of the plunger.

 

My Forester has a Mitsubishi starter, which comes equipped with a sealed solenoid -- different type of mechanism that performs the same function but that are more of a pain to rebuild. In any case, I had an intermittent starting problem that was caused by a misaligned spring preventing the plunger from closing the contacts.

 

To test the starter lead wire, you can also remove it from the solenoid and test the voltage between the end of the starter lead and the body of the starter (ground). It should read at least 12.2 volts.

[OB99W]

I just went out in the garage and tried to take the measurements you asked for. But failed. The car started right up. So I couldn't get a measurement. So I disconnected the coil and cranked it while trying to get a measurement but the readings were sporadic. Back and fourth from .1v to 12 and everywhere in between like a strobe light.

The fact that the readings were changing like that indicates really poor connections. Voltage drop from a battery terminal to the end of the cable connected to it (or in the case of the negative, to the starter body) should only be a few tenths of a volt or so, with the starter cranking.

 

I just looked back at your recent posts, and given all the problems related to the electrical system, I suspect there's a common "connection". If you haven't already done so, remove both battery cables at the battery terminals (posts) and clean the mating surfaces with a wire brush. Make sure when you put them back that the connection is tight. Do the same at the body (chassis) and engine ends of the ground cabling. Then check for voltage drops along the cables again. You could try moving the cables while measuring (which might require three hands ) to see if the readings change, which would indicate a problem.

 

By the way, based on the readings you've posted, it seems you're using a digital meter. They're usually good for getting accurate readings, but make it difficult to see trends. If you can borrow an analog meter, it might be easier to determine what's going on.

 

[...]I don't know where to go from here.

Tracking down intermittent problems can be a pain, but it should be possible to pin this one down.