Fair price for '96 OBW?

[Andy FitzGibbon]

There's one for sale at a local used car lot. White, manual trans, 199K. Interior is in nice shape, not much rust (usual spot behind rear wheels has been fixed semi-professionally, one rear door bottom is losing it's paint along the edge). Good tires. Have not driven it yet as they were closed when I looked. Don't have any experience with anything beyond Loyales. What's a rough price for something like this?

Thanks,

Andy

[lostinthe202]

Good choice in cars, that's what I'm driving, same color even. The '96 OBW manual trans is the last year to have the non-interference 2.2 liter engine. They don't have the head gasket issues that the 2.5's have and are regarded as one of Subaru's most reliable engines, and the 5spd trans is not as susceptible to torque bind as the auto. So that being said, the value will really depend on what kind of shape the car is in and what kind of maintenance records come with it and lastly what they go for in your neck of the woods. Hopefully Grossgary will jump in here as I believe he's near you, or at least in the same state.

 

When you get a chance to drive it, check for torque bind, records (tire purchases for example would be nice to know about), and all the usual stuff you look for in a used car.

 

Good Luck!

[screwbaru2]

Around here that car would go for about $2500. > $3000.00 dollars. That's almost a bulletproof setup. If it's good buy it!

[3Pin]

All true what the other guys say, but I'd say no more than $1,200 in my opinion. It is still a car with 199k on it.

[JT95]

The non-interference 2.2 is a bada$$ little engine. I'm getting ready to put my 95 LSi wagon up for sale and it has that 2.2 and I drove it for 5 years and was made into a believer. It now has 230,000 miles on it and going strong. It went that long before throwing a check engine light (knock sensor) and still runs smooth/strong. It was very well maintained, though. And, other stuff like wheel bearings, rear diff, clutch, etc. have wear and tear to take into consideration with high miles. I was surprised what kbb.com listed my car to be valued private party for, and haven't decided what is a fair asking price for it. i was thinking starting at $2,000 as an asking price and working down from there. It's in good shape with leather interior and sunroof and new CV shafts, but it's still a car over 200k. I'd have a hard time paying over 2grand for a 200k car, and even then the interior had better be in good shape. Also keep in mind it might be in need of the timing belt change, even if it is non-interference EJ22.

 

I'm selling my LSi because I started driving a 99 OBS this spring. They are FUN little cars! Keep us posted about asking price and what you decide to do...

[edrach]

Here it would go for around $1500 to $2000. Don't forget that with that mileage you're due for timing belt and seal service, brake work, and shocks. Once that's done, you should be in fine shape for another 100K miles. Check NADA price (that's low ball figure) and Kelly Blue Book (that would be the high end price); this car should be somewhere in between.

[subaru360]

Around here that car would sell for around $2000. With lower miles it would go for closer to $3000.

[2point2]

I paid $1500 for mine - the same car with 172K miles.

However, it was from a private party.

A dealer would always be higher, and probably wouldn't have any maintenence records.

Check it over thoroughly.

[johnceggleston]

the rust would be a deal breaker for me, but i'm sure others in the northeast would vote differently.

 

i'd rather buy a good body with a bad engine for 500 - 1000$ and then repair or swap in the engine i wanted 900 - 1500$.

[Andy FitzGibbon]

Drove it today.

The engine is indeed a EJ22. Runs good, drives good, shifts good, brakes are good. E brake doesn't work. No sign of any binding (that I could tell) when making tight turns in a parking lot. One axle occasionally clicks when accelerating in turns, not bad, it would go like that for a long time. The rear main seal is leaking, which makes the clutch slip occasionally on very steep grades. It would go for a little while before it absolutely had to be replaced. Both valve cover gaskets leak a little. The timing belts were replaced 70K ago by the local Subaru dealer (found the receipt in the glove box). Has the original CD player, with a Pioneer CD/AM/FM mounted above it (?). Interior is decent, some dog hair and driver's seat has some wear. Heated seats and mirrors. Tires are good. In general, seems to need nothing other than the rear main and clutch, and minor dinky stuff (cup holder doesn't open, ect).

The rust it has isn't bad at all, and as I am looking for a winter driver I'm not too worried about a little rust. If it was rust free, I would feel bad every time I took it out into the salt-slush slop of January. The underside is fairly clean.

Thanks a lot for all the posts so far, they have been very helpful. Overall the car seems solid and I'm going to do some thinking about it. More opinions are welcome.

Thanks,

Andy

Edited September 19, 2008 by Andy FitzGibbon

[idosubaru]

oh yeah - sorry about that Andy. the 96 manual is the freaky outback - the only one that got the EJ22. that's a 60k mile timing belt so it's "due" for replacement but it's not an interference engine (EJ22 is interference starting in 1997).

 

that is a great combo. and i agree...the EJ engines are awesome but like someone else said - it's still a car with 200,000 miles, that's significant. there are likely to be plenty of issues.

 

as you know from talking off line there are plenty of great deals around that i would pass unless it's a great deal. but being at a dealer they probably want top dollar for it. i'd make them give me a new timing belt and whatever other parts i could get from them (tensioner/water pump) since it's over due and those should be replaced anyway.

[mdjdc]

The leaking rear main is not causing the clutch to slip. There is no way that oil can get from the rear main past the flywheel and onto the clutch. It would have to be such a bad leak that you would be putting oil in it every day.

 

That said, I would not want to wait to put in the clutch. One of my friends is a subaru master mechanic and he said that once they start to slip your warning is there. Let it go for a little bit and you will be buying a new flywheel and they are very expensive. Around 300.00

 

I would bargain with the dealer about the timing belt and tensioners. Be sue they are changed this time as they are likely to be ready to go. And get him to give in on the clutch too. You can surely get him to come way down on his price with these known issues. Then you can fix it up yourself.

 

Good luck

[idosubaru]

I would bargain with the dealer

wow, good point about the clutch. sounds like we know why this car was traded in and ended up at a dealer. they probably gave nickels for it on trade in. the same issues they'll play down to you they probably acted like was the end of the world on trade in "oh that's going to cost us huge to fix, we'll probably have to scrap it - we'll give you $500 trade in, that's a couple hundred more than scrap price so we're taking a loss on it." or

 

seller: "well it's almost at a quarter million miles, it'll be nearly impossible to sell with those miles and issues".

turn around.....

buyer: "oh, it's a Subaru it's good for another 100,000 miles".

 

sorry..i'm cynical of dealers, there's a lot of dishonest ones out there.....maybe these guys aren't so bad.

 

good luck AF!

[msmithmmx]

If the rear main seal is leaking that much then it needs to be replaced. There are 2 ways to do it. Pull the motor or transmission. If I were you I would just have the clutch done and they could do it then. I would factor that repair in along with the axle you need to replace and the rust which is a huge bargaining chip. The dealer probably picked it up for 400 bucks at wholesale on some unlucky person who gave it up as a trade. 1000 to 1200 tops.

Edited September 20, 2008 by msmithmmx

[Andy FitzGibbon]

It is not at a Subaru dealer. It's at a small, private used car lot that sells "as is" cars. The guys there are not dishonest, they will admit up front that they know nothing about the cars other than the obvious stuff ("runs good"). It's pretty likely they got it from a Subaru dealer who took it in on trade.

I have had a leaking rear main make a clutch slip before, but not on a Subaru (it was on an IH Scout). That's what I was going from on that. Either way it's not something I would wait around to do.

Gary, you're probably right that the car was dumped by the owner because they didn't want to put money into the clutch and other issues.

Rust is not a huge bargaining chip around here, because pretty much all the used cars around here that are more than five years old have some rust.

The Subaru dealer is just around the corner from this place- maybe I'll drive it over there and get them to make out a list of what all the work would cost that I can show to the seller.

Thanks,

Andy

[Rooster2]

A lot of good advise already given to you on this thread. Suggest you look up on line used car pricing on Kelly blue book and Edmunds used car pricing. Those two sources will give you advise on wholesale and retail Subie pricing.

 

Like others have said, if you are truly interested in the car, offer a low price based on known defects that must be repaired like the clutch, and timing belt, and some rust. The dealer can't have much of an investment in the car, not with 200K on the odo. Also, this car can't be attractive to many people with that high milage, so the dealer will not have many people interested in buying this car. You have a lot of leverage on your side to buy this car at a low price.

 

I have also learned to make low offers on used cars. If not acceptable, leave your name and number with the seller. Often, you will get a call back with a reduced price in a day or two. Good luck!!

[Andy FitzGibbon]

KBB is around $4000 and Edmonds ranges from $1500-$2500 for the year and mileage.

I am going to look around more before trying to make a deal on this one. They most likely won't come down enough to make it worth buying- they'll wait until someone who isn't as savvy comes along and buys it without knowing about the clutch and rear main problems. If it sits there for a while, I might try a super low offer to see what they say.

Thanks again to all for all the good advice, it's been very helpful on this car and will be helpful as I look at other Legacies.

Andy

[johnceggleston]

cars relatively close to you, 95 - 98 subaru, 2500 or less.

there are lots of others, which i excluded , with more miles, more rust, cost more money, farther away, older, need repairs.

 

www.crazedlist.org you wil need the firefox web browser with the 'web developer' 'add on' to do an area wide search.

 

 

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/cto/847381202.html

 

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/doc/cto/844602584.html

 

http://harrisburg.craigslist.org/cto/839632972.html

 

http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/cto/845427629.html rust

 

good luck,

 

john

[Rooster2]

KBB is around $4000 and Edmonds ranges from $1500-$2500 for the year and mileage.

I am going to look around more before trying to make a deal on this one. They most likely won't come down enough to make it worth buying- they'll wait until someone who isn't as savvy comes along and buys it without knowing about the clutch and rear main problems. If it sits there for a while, I might try a super low offer to see what they say.

Thanks again to all for all the good advice, it's been very helpful on this car and will be helpful as I look at other Legacies.

Andy

 

 

Yea, Andy, it sounds like you have a good attitude when buying a used car. Whenever I buy a used car, I try to remain emotionally detached from the car that I am interested in. Otherwise, if you fall in love with a particular car, you fee that you just have to have it, and with that mind set, you will pay too much for a car, and have just trivial thoughts regarding needed repairs that will cost you more. When I am in a car buying mode, I will look at several potential cars, and even if I find one that I really want, I try to never let on to the owner how much I like the car. I always say something like "it is a nice car, but it has these flaws, and I have others that I am looking at, and am more interested in." I always leave my name and tel number with the owner, and tell him that I might get back to him. Usually, they call me with a lower price. It is always a "sales game," to me, and as a professional salesman, I relish cutting the best deal that I can, or "walking away" if the price is not what I am willing to pay. This process drives my wife crazy, so she stays out of the picture. Just my thoughts, maybe it can be of value to you. Good luck!