Sierradump Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 (edited) First time looking at a Subaru... I found what I think to be a good deal on 2 different Subarus. But need some advice... Of the following two vehicles which one will be better in the snow at an elevation of 6,200 ft? One has a manual transmisison but NO turbo. The other has a Turbo but an automatic transmission... NOTE: I do live near Carson City, NV and apparently there is a wreckyard/junkyard that I could possibly find parts to convert a naturally aspirated GL to the Turbo/FI???? Is it cheaper/easier to convert the motor to TURBO/FI or an Auto Tranny to a Manual Tranny! What is the FT4WD I see everyone mention? From what I can tell, it is a locking center diff, like the feature the late 80's Audi's have??? WOULD EITHER OF THESE 2 CARS HAVE THIS??? SUBARU #1: 1985 Subaru GL Wagon (4 door). 50k miles on rebuild - 170k original miles. 1.8L Naturally Aspirated (carbureted) 5 Speed Manual Transmission issues: Owner says car dies sometimes due to some issue with not getting gas? $400 SUBARU #2: 1984 Subaru GL Wagon (4 door) 30k miles on rebuild - 180k original miles 1.8L TURBO (I assume fuel injection?) 3 Speed Automatic Issues: Owner says the car won't shift into 3rd gear - but runs GREAT. $300 WHICH OF THESE IS THE BETTER CAR FOR THE MOUNTAINS? I like the idea of the manual transmission for the hills, but the turbo might make more of a difference???????????? Thanks guys! I trust your opinions! Edited September 20, 2008 by Sierradump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihscout54 Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 (edited) the turbo is F.I. Avoid the turbo unit, from what Ive read on here neither the engine w/turbo or the auto tranny are as reliable as the N/A manual both sound like simple fixes Search the forum for ea81 turbo and governor gear and you will see. but for the money buy both! -Sam Edited September 20, 2008 by ihscout54 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sierradump Posted September 20, 2008 Author Share Posted September 20, 2008 Wish I could buy both but I don't have the room!!! I don't really have the room for whichever one I will buy - it will have to live outside (no room in garage!). I like the idea of the manual transmission - but am scared it will have NO POWER up here in the mountains (but I can always downshift!). Is there any difference in the drivetrain/AWD features of these two models? They are both AWD vehicles right? will they have a HI/LO gear shifter for the AWD??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihscout54 Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 No they are both part time 4x4... and fwd. The manual has hi/lo the auto will have a pushbutton 4x4 and it wont have a low range. -Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sierradump Posted September 20, 2008 Author Share Posted September 20, 2008 So should I go with the Manual Tranny 85 GL? It also comes with a smog cert. which is a HUGE plus since I live in CA... Since they are only part time 4wd does that mean the DRIVER has to shift into 4WD? Is it safe to just put it in 4WD once the snow falls and leave it in 4WD all winter long (it snows ALL winter here)... Basically like a 4WD truck? Do these subarus have locking hubs then???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihscout54 Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 The 4x4 doesnt work like a typical rwd system. Like any 4x4 if you are always in snow and ice you can leave it in 4x but it is fwd in 2x, so you may find you dont need that 4x4 as much as you think. I think an automatic is much better for snow and most offroading. Too bad that jatco piece subaru used is kinda lame. Get the manual trans w/new motor, it will serve you better. You can always convert it to throttle body F.I. later... I am consedering this. There are no hubs to lock. take into consideration physical conditions too whos rusty? You can repair and swap plenty of mech. stuff but if the body is falling off why bother. -Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sierradump Posted September 20, 2008 Author Share Posted September 20, 2008 True, My 4WD Truck is an automatic and it is nice in the snow - but I think that manual transmission will come in handy for the mountains... Especially with a 4CYL motor... I just wonder if that 4CYL motor will pull its own weight up here at 6200ft! My truck has an 8cyl diesel and since it is NON-TURBO it chugs and puffs up hills barely at the posted speed limit! I mainly want the Subaru to get good gas mileage - another plus for the manual transmission! So when I go to look at the Subaru - WHAT KINDS OF THINGS SHOULD I LOOK OUT FOR??? Any dealbreakers? Thanks again!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 My choice would be the '85 with manual tranny. But I'm a flat lander and don't know how either engine would behave at 6200 ft above sea level. I would think they are both the same. Turbos come with their own baggage and I personally hate automatics. As to the '85 that stalls after it runs a while, I'd bet a six pack on the fact that the fuel filter hasn't been changed in a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixO Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 I owned an 83 GL turbo wagon and it was pretty fun until it started leaking oil from every possible crevice. I had to chase breaking/blown hoses and rubber all over that engine for about a year (curse that right angle bypass hose). It was a three speed and eventually reverse stopped working and I had to manually shift the car between the gears most of the time. I finally gave up and donated it to a local junk yard :/ It was super rusty and didn't have a working heater, so I wasn't too sad to see it go. Now, I own a 93 Loyale with a five speed manual. After much reading and seeing tons of old subaru's on Craigslist with bad automatic transmissions - I'll never own an older sub with a three speed again Manuals seem to last as long as the engines. I think you'll be able to track down the fuel issue easier than fixing the turbo'd car and like it a lot more. Will the turbo really help that much in the mountains? I mean - how fast do you plan to drive around up there? Hah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubaruJunkie Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 I kinda skimmed everything, but let me give you my 2 cents. In the sierra's, with your elevation and the climbing in the area... the Turbo will be a godsent! The auto may suck... scratch that, the auto DOES suck, but the Fuel injection and the turbo are WAY better than the Naturally aspirated motor. Turbo cars will not care what elevation you run at. The N/A car will. Its much easier to swap a 5spd into a Turbo Car, rather than a Turbo into a 5 speed car. The Carson City NV Pick-n-Pull has all the parts you need for the conversion. If the EA82T runs good, i would vote for it. Its a reliable motor if treated well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Abides Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 no turbo bad ju ju. Sure a turbo is gonna give him the power but in a 5 speed he can always downshift, then upgrade to fi latter on. And what good is that turbo gonna do if hes stranded on the side of a mountain with a blown head gasket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubaruJunkie Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 So should I go with the Manual Tranny 85 GL? It also comes with a smog cert. which is a HUGE plus since I live in CA... Since they are only part time 4wd does that mean the DRIVER has to shift into 4WD? Is it safe to just put it in 4WD once the snow falls and leave it in 4WD all winter long (it snows ALL winter here)... Basically like a 4WD truck? Do these subarus have locking hubs then???? Smog cert is a HUGE plus!! HUUUUGE! But, really, for the power i would see about the Turbo. I would not recommend swapping from Carb to F.I. There is too much involved, and when you do get it done... you can kiss that smog cert goodbye. Part Time 4WD does mean you have to shift it manually. There are no locking hubs. You pull one lever and you are switching from FWD to 4WD. The auto has a button you push, and its run from vacuum. It takes a second to get the 4WD to engage, and if things are quirky it may never engage. You should NEVER use 4WD on dry pavement. With that being said, you are able to use it anywhere else. Rule of thumb is to ensure one front wheel and one rear wheel has 10% slip. These cars do not have a center differential. When you have it in 4WD, you get 50/50 front and rear distribution and binding will occur if you try to turn and there is no "give". I grew up in Alaska, and every subaru I drove I would keep in 4WD from October until March. If there was snow, ice, gravel or mud on the road I was in 4WD. and believe you me, i could DEFINATLY tell a difference between 4WD & FWD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubaruJunkie Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 no turbo bad ju ju. Sure a turbo is gonna give him the power but in a 5 speed he can always downshift, then upgrade to fi latter on. And what good is that turbo gonna do if hes stranded on the side of a mountain with a blown head gasket It is obvious you have never driven through Tahoe. The EA82T gets a bad wrap. Hell, even I blew one up. But thats cause people try to get more power than the EA82 can handle. If its treated right, it will last just as long as any EA82 out there. However, its rare to find a EA82T that was ever treated right. And yes, it can cause headaches. But i have driven a carburated EA82 through Tahoe and even downshifting isnt enough. I have driven a Turbo EA82, and a Turbo EJ22 through there and you pass people uphill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 The '84 Turboed one would have the EA-81T engine in it, and the way I understand it, (from reading on here), don't have the headgasket issues that the EA-82T's do. I would buy it myself, just for that reason alone, but that's just me... If you do buy the Turbo, you can always swap a D/R manual tranny into it. Either the EA-81 4 speed D/R, or the EA-82 5 speed D/R. The 5 speed swap would be slightly more involved than the 4 speed one. The '85 can be swapped to FI. The mechanical part is easy for most people, but the wiring side of it could be a nightmare if you're not one that's comfortable doing wiring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subieman Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 Ok let me give you a few pointers. Stay away from the turbos. They run hot and eat auto trannys for lunch. (Trust me I know first hand.) I live in the area, well Reno but I make many trips to the lake. If you must have an old gen soob I would recommend a SPFI EA82 that would be 1987 if it's a calif car and 1988+ if it's federal. They run forever, have good power for higher elevation. Make sure you get a manual, auto's are slow. I own a 88 GL and it's great in the hills, yes it is a little slow but I can keep up with traffic over donner summit. It did just blow a head gasket but it has 250K miles on it. Just keep your eye on Craigs list, something will come up. Oh yes the Carson City Pick N Pull is the place to go for parts. But remember these cars are getting old and the are slowly disappearing from the yards. Parts may become hard to find soon. Good luck with your purchase on whatever you decide. Remember it is your car and not ours Oh and those 84 Turbo wagons are very rare. If I had the space I would buy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihscout54 Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 (edited) These 2 cars are different body styles. I would choose the the '84 over the '85 just for the looks, I really like those ea81's the ea82's are kinda boring. But if all ya care about is off road beater, the 85 will be better. Easier to get parts for, more reliable, but harder to work on. High altitude sucks but it can be jetted and timed to improve its perf at altitude. Or like everyone said "FI swap" Deal breakers: well we know the gov gear or assy will need cleaning or replace on the auto... Who knows how bad it really is.... Rust: the 85 will probably have less rust and a cleaner interior if they both led similar lives as the newer unit was improved by design. Check the little things like the heater core, one that doesnt leak would be nice, exhaust condition, windows, tires. Drive them you will know who is meant for you... But make sure to drive both! Dont fall in love with one and skip the other. These are just my opinions -Sam Edited September 20, 2008 by ihscout54 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subaru_dude Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 (edited) Get the EA81T. Cools better, will have more power at that elevation, NO TIMING BELTS, and typically easier to fix. The carb at that elevation is going to have NO power. I had an '87 EA82 Carbed wagon and it SUCKED at 5000 ft. Granted it probably would have had a little more power if it was tuned for that elevation but still, where you're at you shouldn't pass up the extra power and reliability of the EA81T for a carbed EA82. '84 is my vote!! Edited September 20, 2008 by Subaru_dude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NV Zeno Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 I've got an '83 non turbo manual. Two trips daily up/down Spooner in winter. DEFINITELY not a power wagon, but I just stick it in 3rd gear and can easily cruise 60 MPH uphill all day, with some power left for passing Winnebagos and such. Excellent Tahoe car, has never left me stranded or stuck in the snow. Ever. Snow tires are a must. Ken's Tire in SLT is the place to go for them. In wintertime, there's no real need for huge power as traffic moves relatively slowly around town. Great gas mileage, in the high 20's. CC Pick-n-Pull has parts 99% of the time, and if you're in SLT Norm's Auto Repair (Subaru specialists) is the place to go if something's over your head. By far the smog cert is the most important plus for the '85, especially if you're on the California side. You may never get the other car to pass, even after spending a lot of cash to attempt to get it into compliance. That's my 2 bucks, welcome to the family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sierradump Posted September 20, 2008 Author Share Posted September 20, 2008 WOW! Lots of good opinions and I really appreciate them - but it seems to be a split 50/50 between the 1984 and 1985! It seems as though the manual tranny will last longer than the auto. And since the automatic tranny is already busted; if I go with the 1985 it is ready to drive... The 1984 Turbo is a Nevada car and does not come with a California smog cert. I have had issues getting Nevada cars smogged but found a loophole:grin: I can register and insure it in Nevada using a PO Box I have! I agree that the 1985 is probably a fuel filter issue. are there 2 filters or just 1? I read yesterday (but can't find the post now) that someone swapped the fuel filter but had to take it to a shop to have the 2nd fuel filter changed? The 1985 DOES come with a California Smog Cert. which is a huge plus; HOWEVER - In my county here in California, we only have to smog the car when we buy it - THEN NEVER AGAIN! I had a 81' Jeep CJ5 that I bought with the 4cyl, passed smog and threw a Chevy V8 in it and never had to smog it again! So modifying the Subaru after I buy it will NOT be an issue... True that I will not really need the Turbo power for putting around town - but it would be nice to be able to get back forth to Reno without riding the slow lane all the way!!! I think I can get the 1985 for about $300 and it seems like that is what I am leaning towards. I like the manual transmissions and @ $300 it seems like a good deal to just use as a commuter for a 3mile roundtrip I have everyday! More opinions are very much welcomed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NV Zeno Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Please let us know which way you go And, no matter which you choose, I'm sure you'll have questions..we're here for ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiffy Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 are you sure that the '85 is a 4wd model? according to cars101.com the '84 turbo was a full-time AWD tranny, but the '85 model came in fwd as well as 4wd... so make sure first... the old ea81 turbos have a good cool factor going for them... and a more reliable engine... but as stated they are rare and getting harder to find parts for... on the other hand the ea82 cars are abundant and parts are easy to find... it's true that the auto tranny sucks... it's slow (only 3 gears) and prone to break down... but the turbo has 95 horsepower over the 82 that the 1985 model has... yes, it makes a difference... --Spiffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opus Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 You could always have a vacuum hose off the carb or intake and put a valve on it and lean it out manually, if need be. I'd do the 5 spd carb. Better yet, if you like to tinker, put a dial-a-jet on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newsoobdude Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 I'd go for the 85 N/a 5spd model provided it's 4wd. If ya need more power than it has, you can ALWAYS do an EJ swap down the road and have 130 hp. Gotta love living in parts that are NOT CARB counties (I live in one too:banana::banana:) and thus will be doing an EJ swap on my 84 when I get done with my other cars and then a 30R swap into my Outback after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi subbie Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 (edited) my old 86 turbo vortex with ea82t went very well. it did 299,000 plus kms. its been main tainned well its whole life. the turbo and the motor and auto was fully original never gave any trouble. it was also used to pull an big heavy boat to till 2003. the only probs i had with it was- old hoses goin hard crackin and leaking. and the gaskets were leaking to. so had to top it up every once in an while. Edited September 22, 2008 by kiwi subbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sierradump Posted September 23, 2008 Author Share Posted September 23, 2008 (edited) Well I found a 1992 Loyale now... Owner doesn't know if it is turbo or not. Going to look at it tomorrow... Would this be a better vehicle than the other two I was looking at? It is newer but it has 140,000 miles and is all original (no rebuild)... What kind of mileage can I expect this car to get to??? Edited September 23, 2008 by Sierradump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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