When I connect the battery, the fan turns on

[renob123]

As the title says, when I connect the battery terminals on my '85 Brat, the fan and clock come on. I know the PO messed with it somehow. I'm sure it's a problem with the ignition. In any other car, you can put the key in, then push it forward a little to get the accessories on, then push it again to start it. In the Brat, you can only put the key in, then push it forward to start. Is that normal, or should there be an "accessory" or "on" mode first? I sure hope so:-)

 

Thanks.

 

Jacob

[MilesFox]

sounds to me that the key is being removes IN the accessory position.

 

which fan are you mentioning. my 86 brat runs the heater fan in the acc position.

 

the radiator fan will rin in the acc position, but is tripped by the thermoswitch. suppose the thermoswitch is stuck in the closed position. the wire to the switch is hot all the time and grounds thru the switch thri the radiator. there is a ground wire on the top of the radiator

[TheSubaruJunkie]

When you insert the key, can you back it off any? It sounds like its in the ACC position and the key is worn enough so you can insert it still.

[renob123]

When you insert the key, can you back it off any? It sounds like its in the ACC position and the key is worn enough so you can insert it still.

 

Sorry, it's the internal fan that turns on, not the radiator fan. The key will not go back at all with reasonable force. I haven't tried unreasonable force yet. Would some PB Blaster help?

 

The ghetto-rigging fix that I can think of right now is to get a switch that would cut power from the battery. I'd get in the car, hit the switch, then turn the key to start the engine. To stop the engine, I'd have to flip the switch again. I'm trying to avoid that.

 

Jacob

[edrach]

Sorry, it's the internal fan that turns on, not the radiator fan. The key will not go back at all with reasonable force. I haven't tried unreasonable force yet. Would some PB Blaster help?

 

The ghetto-rigging fix that I can think of right now is to get a switch that would cut power from the battery. I'd get in the car, hit the switch, then turn the key to start the engine. To stop the engine, I'd have to flip the switch again. I'm trying to avoid that.

 

Jacob

If you install a switch to turn off anything, turn off the fan (low current and easy), not the battery power (high current and more difficult).

[zukiru]

or you could run a battery disconnect... not a bad idea anyway if you're doing any kind of motorsports (in my eyes "wheeling" is a motorsport).

[baccaruda]

Jacob, I don't think PBBlaster will help here but you get points for saying PBBlaster and not WD40

 

Someone here will have a wiring diagram for your 85 Brat and might be kind enough to email or fax it to you. There might be a problem with a relay or something, and adding switches is just going to be more to fix later. Plus, depending on where the problem is, you might not put the switch in the best location to negate the problem. You could just unplug the fan and clock for now; that's what I'd do instead of splicing stuff in.

[renob123]

Jacob, I don't think PBBlaster will help here but you get points for saying PBBlaster and not WD40

 

Someone here will have a wiring diagram for your 85 Brat and might be kind enough to email or fax it to you. There might be a problem with a relay or something, and adding switches is just going to be more to fix later. Plus, depending on where the problem is, you might not put the switch in the best location to negate the problem. You could just unplug the fan and clock for now; that's what I'd do instead of splicing stuff in.

 

Thanks for the points. I was thinking maybe some PB Blaster where the key goes to try to loosen it up and allow for more than "On" and "Start" to be accessed by the key.

 

Does anyone have the wiring diagrams I need? I knew I'd ask for them eventually.

 

Jacob

[edrach]

Thanks for the points. I was thinking maybe some PB Blaster where the key goes to try to loosen it up and allow for more than "On" and "Start" to be accessed by the key.

 

Does anyone have the wiring diagrams I need? I knew I'd ask for them eventually.

 

Jacob

Jacob, I have a shop manual for an '84 Brat. I would think the wiring is the same. I'll take it to work and make copies of the wiring. I'll get the info to you somehow. Where are you again'? ---ed---

 

Also, there's a special oil that the locksmiths use. I'll think of it tomorrow. In any event I have it and I think I can spare a few drops!

[renob123]

Jacob, I have a shop manual for an '84 Brat. I would think the wiring is the same. I'll take it to work and make copies of the wiring. I'll get the info to you somehow. Where are you again'? ---ed---

 

Also, there's a special oil that the locksmiths use. I'll think of it tomorrow. In any event I have it and I think I can spare a few drops!

 

Great! I can pick up both at the October 5th rallyx. Either that, or I'll be in the Seattle-ish area this weekend, since I'm doubting you'll want to meet me in Port Angeles.

 

Thanks.

 

Jacob

[pixO]

Here's the starting circuit for your brat:

 

 

I have others if you need them :]

 

Edit: As you can see, there should be an accessories and run position on the ignition switch. Have you thought about just replacing the ignition switch and/or cylinder? They don't look to be too much at parts stores.

Edited September 24, 2008 by pixO

[renob123]

Here's the starting circuit for your brat:

 

 

I have others if you need them :]

 

Edit: As you can see, there should be an accessories and run position on the ignition switch. Have you thought about just replacing the ignition switch and/or cylinder? They don't look to be too much at parts stores.

 

I have thought about replacing the cylinder, but I want to make sure the rest of the wiring is where it should be first. Thanks for your help. I'm going to test most of this diagram later tonight.

 

Jacob

[2F1R Suby/dub]

Hi Jacob. Important to remember here is that the key switch only activates the actual switch. The key switch moves a little rack and pinion that pulls a rod up or down the makes the actual switch make or break contact. The switch itself is usually mounted on the column and has a bundle of wires attached to it. Spraying the key switch will probably gum up the lock pins once dirt gets in from your key. I'd try removing the keyswitch and having a look for wear at the point it gets moved by the key and at the switch itself. It may just be full of crap and that won't allow it to move far enough to fully shut off. At least this is how most work (I'm not being Subaru specific here). Cheers. Dave Allen.

[renob123]

Thanks for the help so far. I don't think it's a wiring thing, I think it's just a key-not-turning thing. I'm wondering at this point whether I try to take the whole thing off the steering column and down to a locksmith, or if there's some way of just getting the cylinder off without taking the whole thing off (and messing with the headless bolts). Here are some pics. Please advise. Thanks.

 

Jacob

 

I tried pliers, allen wrenches, and yelling at it, but this thing won't come off:

 

This whole thing can slide off after I unplug the switch on the left side and do something with the headless bolts (probably dremel a groove for a screwdriver).

[edrach]

Thanks for the points. I was thinking maybe some PB Blaster where the key goes to try to loosen it up and allow for more than "On" and "Start" to be accessed by the key.

 

Does anyone have the wiring diagrams I need? I knew I'd ask for them eventually.

 

Jacob

Tri-Flow is what you want to loosen up the ignition tumbler. My locksmith swears by it.

[renob123]

Tri-Flow is what you want to loosen up the ignition tumbler. My locksmith swears by it.

 

Is that the stuff you have? I can meet you this weekend and pick it up, then drop it off with you during the rallyx. Unless it's like $5 and easily found, then I'll just pick some up.

 

Jacob

[pixO]

If you are trying to remove just the lock cylinder, usually you need the key in it (this was the case on my '86 Aries). Turn the key until it comes out. Also, make sure you unhook the battery so it doesn't try to start

 

 

edit: I tried searching my mitchell dvd and I came up empty, so I tried autozone's repair section:

 

REMOVAL & INSTALLATION

Justy

 

1. Disconnect the negative battery cable.

2. Remove the steering wheel.

3. Remove the upper and lower steering column covers.

4. Remove the knob from the hazard switch.

 

The ignition switch is mounted to the steering column using special shear bolts. These bolts are constructed so the heads shear off when the bolt is tightened.

 

5. Drill pilot holes in the shear bolts and using a screw extractor remove the switch mounting bolts.

6. Remove the ignition switch and disconnect the switch electrical harness.

 

To install:

 

7. Install the ignition switch and connect the electrical harness.

8. Install new shear bolts and tighten until the heads shear off.

9. Install the hazard knob.

10. Install the steering column upper and lower covers.

11. Install the steering wheel.

12. Connect the negative battery cable.

 

Sedan, Coupe, Loyale, XT, Wagon and Brat

 

1. Disconnect the negative battery cable.

2. Remove the steering wheel.

3. Remove the upper and lower steering column covers.

4. Remove the knob from the hazard switch.

 

The ignition switch is mounted to the steering column using special shear bolts. These bolts are constructed so the heads shear off when the bolt is tightened.

 

5. Drill pilot holes in the shear bolts and using a screw extractor remove the switch mounting bolts.

6. Remove the ignition switch and disconnect the switch electrical harness.

 

To install:

 

7. Install the ignition switch and connect the electrical harness.

8. Install new shear bolts and tighten until the heads shear off.

9. Install the hazard knob.

10. Install the steering column upper and lower covers.

11. Install the steering wheel.

12. Connect the negative battery cable.

 

Legacy and Impreza

 

The ignition switch is mounted in place using special shear bolts. Removal of the ignition switch requires replacement of these bolts. When removing the bolts it is easiest if you use a suitable punch and hammer to tap the bolts around. When installing new bolts tighten the bolts until the shear heads break off.

 

1. Disconnect the negative battery cable.

2. Remove the upper and lower steering column covers.

3. Disconnect the ignition switch harness from the body harness.

4. Using a drift and hammer, hit the heads of the shear bolts to loosen and remove the ignition switch mounting bolts.

 

To install:

 

5. Install the ignition switch with new mounting bolts. Tighten the mounting bolts until the bolt heads snap off.

6. Connect the ignition switch electrical harness.

7. Install the steering column covers.

8. Connect the negative battery cable.

 

SVX

 

1. Disconnect the negative battery cable.

2. Remove the upper steering column cover mounting screws and remove the upper and lower halves of the covers.

3. Disconnect the ignition switch electrical harness.

4. Remove the switch mounting screws and remove the ignition switch.

 

To install:

 

5. Position the switch on the steering column and install the mounting screws.

6. Connect the switch electrical connector.

7. Install the upper and lower steering column covers and the cover mounting screws.

8. Connect the negative battery cable.

Edited September 26, 2008 by pixO

[2F1R Suby/dub]

Delete message.

Edited September 27, 2008 by 2F1R Suby/dub
repeat of post

[GeneralDisorder]

You remove the entire aluminium peice that holds the cylinder and the switch by removing the 4 bolts that bolt the assembly to the column from the back. Use a pair of needle-nose vice-grips to break them loose and then work them out with needle-nose pliers. It's pretty simple really.

 

The cylinder can be rebuilt by any good locksmith. They are simple and if your smith knows his work he can modify the lock to use the first tumbler pin as the key retainer instead of the original retainer that always breaks and allows the key to be removed in any posistion.

 

GD

[renob123]

You remove the entire aluminium peice that holds the cylinder and the switch by removing the 4 bolts that bolt the assembly to the column from the back. Use a pair of needle-nose vice-grips to break them loose and then work them out with needle-nose pliers. It's pretty simple really.

 

The cylinder can be rebuilt by any good locksmith. They are simple and if your smith knows his work he can modify the lock to use the first tumbler pin as the key retainer instead of the original retainer that always breaks and allows the key to be removed in any posistion.

 

GD

 

Thanks. I removed the lock last night and brought it to the locksmith this morning. He said it may be until next Monday before it's done, and that it'll cost $100+ if he has to replace the guts. Does that sound right?

 

Jacob

[GeneralDisorder]

With everyone starving for work these days.... yeah that's about right. Just having a key cut by code is like $25 now. I had new keys made for my hatch ignition from the code on the passenger door lock (if he needs to code that's where it's at BTW) and it was like $33 for three keys - one code cut and two copy's.

 

This is why I always grab lock-set's from the junk yard when they have a key in the ignition. It's cheaper and faster to change all the locks on the car than it is to have them repaired. But in many parts of the country that's your only real option.

 

They aren't difficult lock mechanisms. On my 91 legacy some previous owner had forced the lock and actually broke part of it internally. I got another lock cylinder from the junk yard and transfered the tumbler pins and springs from the broken cylinder to the new one and fixed the lock myself. The parts are small but they are no different than any other mechanical device. I save a pile of money and kept my car keyed the same thoughout.

 

GD

[renob123]

With everyone starving for work these days.... yeah that's about right. Just having a key cut by code is like $25 now. I had new keys made for my hatch ignition from the code on the passenger door lock (if he needs to code that's where it's at BTW) and it was like $33 for three keys - one code cut and two copy's.

 

This is why I always grab lock-set's from the junk yard when they have a key in the ignition. It's cheaper and faster to change all the locks on the car than it is to have them repaired. But in many parts of the country that's your only real option.

 

They aren't difficult lock mechanisms. On my 91 legacy some previous owner had forced the lock and actually broke part of it internally. I got another lock cylinder from the junk yard and transfered the tumbler pins and springs from the broken cylinder to the new one and fixed the lock myself. The parts are small but they are no different than any other mechanical device. I save a pile of money and kept my car keyed the same thoughout.

 

GD

 

Yeah, I took out the passenger side lock and gave it to the locksmith. Hopefully all it takes is getting a real key cut, instead of whatever the guy thought might work.

 

Would you be willing to part with a complete set for a Gen 2 Brat? I'll be in PDX Friday-Sunday, and if the locksmith wants a fortune for the repair, it would be good to have an alternative.

 

Jacob

[edrach]

Yeah, I took out the passenger side lock and gave it to the locksmith. Hopefully all it takes is getting a real key cut, instead of whatever the guy thought might work.

 

Would you be willing to part with a complete set for a Gen 2 Brat? I'll be in PDX Friday-Sunday, and if the locksmith wants a fortune for the repair, it would be good to have an alternative.

 

Jacob

Passenger side door lock has the key code stamped in it; something like W135. Locksmith should be able to make a new key from that.

[renob123]

Passenger side door lock has the key code stamped in it; something like W135. Locksmith should be able to make a new key from that.

 

Yeah, that's what he'll try first, but if it comes down to redoing the lock cylinder, I may just want to look for working replacement parts from a junkyard or member.

 

Once I get this thing figured out, I'll be able to see if the radiator can hold water, then I may be able to get the Brat to move forward under its own power for the first time in 6 years!

 

Jacob

[renob123]

While I'm in here, how do I disable the steering wheel lock? I tried searching, but I couldn't find the right terms, I guess.

 

Jacob