The Beast I Drive Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Hey yall, Heres what I got goin in my head. I have a EJ25 from a 97 Outback. I want to put it in my 88 RX. I have an adapter plate, installing it I pretty much have that part down. What I want to do though, is run it with twin Weber IDE carbs on a custom split manifold, with some aggressive Delta cams. I will look at it more tomorrow, but how does the spark get triggered on these cars? I know that on EJ22s and such you can mount a Escort disty on the cam but is it the same on the 2.5? If not, how might I go about fooling the ECU into running the coil spark like normal without any of the fuel management equipment hooked up? Second though, 2.5s are interference, I know, but what exactly is interfering? Is it because it has more stroke than a 2.2 or the vlves open more or the deck height is less?? Is there any combination of EJ parts that can be mixed together to make it non-interference? Im not really concerned about it being interference or not, just curious. I got a great deal (read: Smokin hot deal!!!) on this so Im not gonna toss it in favor of an EJ22 just yet, Id like to have some fun for a while. Im gonna do all the belt/pulleys/seals and such before installing it for good measure, im unsure of the mileage and aware of the head gasket problems, but it doesnt seem to leak right now. I just want to get all my facts and info straight before I tear down my nice 27mpg daily driver so it wont be down for very long. The Beast is cool, but 17 mpg kinda sucks lol. Thanks for your help guys. -Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingbobdole Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 As far as I know the piston tops don't have any valve reliefs and that helps make more compression while making it interference. Here's a question.. why go to all that work to make it carbbed? If your looking for MPG, the EFI cannot be beat, that and with wheeling. My 88 Rx with the 2.5 got about 32 MPG mostly or about 28 when I was really after it. Here's this: http://subaruxt.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6787&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=project+stalling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted November 17, 2008 Author Share Posted November 17, 2008 Well, the only reason im concerned with its mileage right now is cuz it has relatively no power. With the power of the Ej, Im not going to be so concerned, that and I will have another EA82 wagon by then for mileage. I am a carb guy, always have been, always will be. I dont like sensors, I like mechanics. And the thought of 2 carbs with 4 chrome velocity stacks shoving up through the hood of a Subaru is just pure hotness to me For future reference to responders in this thread, I do not want to go FI. Period. Please dont try to change my mind, it wont happen. Now its time to check out that link -Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Bob, I'm not picking on you. Not calling you out. It's just something that comes up on this board over and over. When someone asks about carbs... "I do not want to go FI. Period. Please dont try to change my mind, it wont happen." I grew up with them. I've probably rebuilt close to 100 of them. I can make them work. Often, on the cheap. F.I. guys run from them! lol A lot of those guys just don't understand them, or why "anyone" would want one. Enough. I'm just going to tune it out from this day foreward. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstaru Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 there is no way to run a disty that i found.or i might have gone with a rebuilt 2.5. an independant management system is about the only option.but most of those use injector setups i thought.i'll trade you your 2.5 for a 2.2 :Dcheers, brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 you don't like all the sensors, but you're talking about wiring up the stock harness/ECU just to run the spark? you do realize that would require all the sensors anyway, right? I understand the concept that some people just prefer carbs. but you're talking about all the work, all the sensors, all the electrical stuff.....with none of the gains. or, you could try to rig some sort of standalone to run the ignition. but again, all the work, just run 4 more wires for the injectors and be done with it. or.....put 2.2 heads on it, and put a disty on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted November 17, 2008 Author Share Posted November 17, 2008 or.....put 2.2 heads on it, and put a disty on it. That is something Ill have to look at. Are the coolant passages the same? What are the differences between the 2.2 and 2.5 heads anyways? -Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s'ko Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 That is something Ill have to look at. Are the coolant passages the same? What are the differences between the 2.2 and 2.5 heads anyways? -Bill go to nasioc and look up the frankenstein built motors. There is even a cometic headgasket cut to make this swap easier and be able to handle the high compression. the are some people working on ITBs using the WRX TGVs or using motorcycle carbs. I think Nasioc was some stuff about that too. BW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted November 17, 2008 Author Share Posted November 17, 2008 I was reading something about the ITBs on NASIOC a little while back, but that thread turned to poo and never got back on track I thought about that too, but I love the way those Webers look, and parts are very available for them, they are used in race cars all over the world. They are about 360 bucks a piece, but they are brand new -Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 That is something Ill have to look at. Are the coolant passages the same? What are the differences between the 2.2 and 2.5 heads anyways? -Bill all EJ-series heads are interchangeable. your 2.5l heads are DOHC, the 2.2 would be SOHC. so they'll use a different intake mani, but if you're making a custom one..... the 2.2 heads will have a bit less quench volume, so higher compression on a 2.5 block... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted November 17, 2008 Author Share Posted November 17, 2008 I like what Im seeing about 2.2 heads. Anyone got a pair for sale? -Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingbobdole Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 F.I. guys run from them! lol A lot of those guys just don't understand them, or why "anyone" would want one. Enough. I'm just going to tune it out from this day foreward. That's nice and all but, I do not "fear" carbs, and I can understand why you would want them. A LOT of cheap and easy power can be made with them. At the same time, There is really no "cheap" in a custom intake to me. Yeah, you can make it for free, but how much time does it take? And then swapping heads so you can run a dizzy too? Why not just put some points into it and screw wiring anything? I think carb guys just "fear" wiring. The BIGGEST reason I mentioned going FI was because the OP mentioned fuel milage and wheeling. Two huge advantages to FI there. You're right, this does come up on the boards a lot. buncha old carb guys vs a buncha young whippersnappers and their fancy electrons:horse: Back on topic. I agree that 2.2 heads would be the answer to the distributor problem... Also check out Volkswagen guys for some carb answers... There's more then one dual webber subaru powered beetle out there... I bet fabbing up an old air cooled VW manifold and making it fit the sub wouldn't be that hard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 When someone asks about carbs... "I do not want to go FI. Period. Please dont try to change my mind, it wont happen." in "Bob's" defense the OP didn't state that in the original thread that "Bob" was replying too. can't hold him accountable to something that was never said!??! original post he said "I want the facts" and the fact remains that carbs are far inferior and antiquated...so he answered the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted November 19, 2008 Author Share Posted November 19, 2008 I have decided Im gonna use 2.2 heads as i am getting a really good deal on a 2.2 as long as i can meet a deadline. This will give me the opportunity to pre-emptively, hopefully, solve the weak headgasket problem on the 2.5 by using modified 2.2 gaskets. Also a great time to get and install some aggressive cams. For the record, this motor is going in my RX, which will NOT be a wheeler, it is a street beast only. I am considering a FI swap for my straight axle wagon, but that seems unlikey as I have access to a hellaciously good deal on some stuff I need to make a carbed 2.2. You can't honestly tell me that it wouldnt look cool in any way seeing 4 stainless velocity stacks mounted on 2 Webers sticking out the hood of an 88 RX jacked up in the back, can you? That is just pure sex right there, no matter if you are a inferior carb guy or a Fuel Injection guru. On a side note, the Webers I am going to use are used on ultra high performance sports cars around the world, so I cant really say they are inferior. Carbs are still the only fuel management used in NASCAR, and the preferred device for the NHRA, not to mention millions of muscle cars and million dollar hot rods the world over. FI is great, but its just not how I roll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Carbs are still the only fuel management used in NASCAR yes, because NASCAR is on the cutting edge of technology. look at real racing, F1, WRC, Le Mans, etc. etc. yea also, carb size/manifold design will be crucial. not to mention the fact that 2.2 heads on a 2.5 block will yield quite high compression (10.5:1, IIRC). so you'll need to be extremely accurate in your tuning, or you'll blow it to pieces. and, new headgaskets on a DOHC 2.5 fixes the problem all by itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted November 19, 2008 Author Share Posted November 19, 2008 The compression boost is another reason I want to swap the 2.2 heads. NASCAR may not be on the "cutting edge" of technology, but you cant tell me those engines are not built and tuned to precise calibers and degrees. If Im gonna pull heads to do a head gasket fix, I might as well bolt on some heads that will give me some added performance. Also the 2.2 heads give me a proven way to mount a distributor. -Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 it'll be neat to see someone else figure out the disty swap. i'm sure you know this already, but a few aussie guys have converted to disty EJ's to run propane and such. i recall seeing one picture. have you gotten much info on that disty swap? all of it here or somewhere else? a guy on the XT boards (and here) was recently considering doing this too. i'm not a facing person at all, but those cars are tuned for one track, one elevation, one day of the year...hard to compare that to anything i need. an engine with highly tuned carbs can probably be better managed with FI, but who cares we'd all rather have their unlimited budgets over anything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted November 20, 2008 Author Share Posted November 20, 2008 As far as the disty swap goes, Ive been talkin to jerry and Brian about what they did, and its really simple, and since I live near jerry I often go look at his stuff. I dont plan to run LPG, it would be kinda cool though. Just a thought, what is the minimum compression to make Deisel ignite? -Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatswhatshesaid Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Just a thought, what is the minimum compression to make Deisel ignite? -Bill Ha ha...I like the way you think...but isn't that a bit more conplicated than just upping the compression? :-p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingbobdole Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Ha ha...I like the way you think...but isn't that a bit more conplicated than just upping the compression? :-p yes... trying to run a gas engine as a diesel will just blow the bottom end apart... everything is beefier in a diesel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted December 3, 2008 Author Share Posted December 3, 2008 I kinda figured that. I was just curious... -Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoorManzImpreza Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 All our (Barbados) early gen legacy (90-93) ej18 equiped cars are carbed from FHI..I posted pictures of one of these engines about two (or more?)years ago..If you needed anything lemme know.. Kaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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