Noisy Legacy transmission

[Mikevan10]

1997 Legacy

2.2 liter

5 speed manual, AWD

201,000 miles

 

 

The transmission in this car is noisy when I load it (i.e. when I accelerate in any gear). It is hard for me to explain exactly what the noise sounds like, other than it is what you might expect a gearbox running dry to sound like. It is steady, not a wump-wump. It is a general thrashy sound. It goes away when you take your foot off the throttle pedal.

 

Other than the noise, the only symptom is that the third gear synchro is apparently not in perfect condition. It wants to give a little crunch as you downshift into third from fourth unless you have engine speed appropriately synchronized with the current road speed. If you double clutch properly it does not crunch/grind at all. It has been doing this for well over a year. I only mention it here for the sake of completeness. I personally doubt it has anything to do with the noise I now have under acceleration, which has only come about in the last month or two.

 

I drained the gear oil this past Saturday. I do not believe I have ever changed this fluid before on this car in the 130,000 some odd miles I’ve owned it. It was pretty “muddy” looking and there definitely was metallic particles in it. But I would be surprised NOT to find metal particles in there. I did NOT, on the other hand, find any large chunks of anything in the drain oil. I filled it back up with 75W-90 gear oil.

 

Your thoughts?

 

Thanks,

 

Mike V.

[EVOthis]

i had a problem similar to this in the trans on my 96 legacy....if i were you i would prob. just go ahead and replace the trans with a good used one...at the mileage your questioning the longevitity of your center diff. also (unless you have recently replaced that)....i ended up losing 4th gear.....just a suggestion....i didnt really feel like splitting the case halves and trying to find out what was wrong...

[nipper]

What he said. If this was a 150,000 miles we would try to diagnose it a bit more, but at 200,000 miles, with a tired 3rd gear synchro, it may not pay to put the work into it.

 

nipper

[Snowman]

Sounds like it's probably time for a tranny soon. I wouldn't be too worried about driving it for a while though, as it most likely will not fail suddenly. Manuals usually give plenty of warning before they die. So, if you can find a better deal on a tranny or a better place to work on it by waiting a while, I wouldn't be afraid.

[subaru360]

The rear bearing on the input shaft goes bad on these. When it goes it takes a lot of other parts with it. It's not cost effective to fix it. Replace it with used one. They can be had cheaply. Around here under $100 if you pull it out or $200-300 pulled out for you.

[Mikevan10]

Thanks for the comments fellas.

 

I am trying to make my decision. The situation is that I was planning to drive this vehicle to Boston and back over Thanksgiving for a total of about 500 miles. The only transmission I have located within 50 miles of me is one with 150,000 miles on it and they want $450.00. (Note to Sub360 - Fleetwood is not far from me. Let me know if you are aware of any deals like you suggested....).High temperatures for this weekend are forecast to be around 30 deg. F and I'll be doing the swap outside in the driveway.

 

Also weighing on my mind is that I had a 1992 GL on which the differential self destructed about 150 miles from home several years ago. Do not want to go through that again.

 

Thanks again,

Mike V.

[Mikevan10]

Correction - It was my 1987 GL that blew the diff (not the 1992).

 

Mike

[subaru360]

Thanks for the comments fellas.

 

I am trying to make my decision. The situation is that I was planning to drive this vehicle to Boston and back over Thanksgiving for a total of about 500 miles. The only transmission I have located within 50 miles of me is one with 150,000 miles on it and they want $450.00. (Note to Sub360 - Fleetwood is not far from me. Let me know if you are aware of any deals like you suggested....).High temperatures for this weekend are forecast to be around 30 deg. F and I'll be doing the swap outside in the driveway.

 

Also weighing on my mind is that I had a 1992 GL on which the differential self destructed about 150 miles from home several years ago. Do not want to go through that again.

 

Thanks again,

Mike V.

 

I was at Harry's U-pull this morning and there were no 5 speeds, only automatics. I think there may be a few 5 speeds at A-Z in new ringgold, but I haven't been up there in a few weeks.

[Mikevan10]

OK, I'm going to take the plunge. I'll be picking up a used trans tomorrow. I think it came from a car with about 120,000 miles on it but this is not certain (maybe more like 150K). Price is $400.00.

 

I'll be doing the swap this weekend. Perfect timing as the weather forcast is for a high of 30 degrees F and very windy! Will be a good time out in the wide open driveway. So if anyone has any tips to speed up my job, I'm all ears (until they freeze off). I have done this job before but I'm always open to suggestions.

 

Thanks again,

 

Mike V.

[Mikevan10]

Alright, I picked up the used trans today. $400.00 for a grimy old gem.

 

Anyway, I managed to remove the trans from my car. Took me 5 hours working solo. No real problems but it was no fun dealing with the ambient conditions. I'm working out in the driveway and it is plenty windy and the theremometer in the garage read 25 F when I finished. Oh well, enough wining for now.

 

I do have a question! Wnen the trans finally hit the ground, the release bearing fell out along with a plastic ring. The plastic ring has an inside dianeter rouighly equivalent to the i.d. of the release bearing. The outside diameter is about 1/4 inch bigger than the i.d. (so the width of the ring is only about 1/8 inch). It is also about 1/8 inch thick. I do not know what this ring is for. It does not show in the Haynes manual. Can someone please tell what it is, what it does and exactly where it goes?.

 

Also, the release bearing clips were mangled. Hope I can get them at a generic auto parts store tomorrow. I need to complete this job this weekend.

 

Thanks for any comments, moral support, etc.

 

Mike V.

[idosubaru]

Mike,

the plastic ring doesn't sound like something normal, it's not a part i've ever specifically dealt with anyway. i'm guessing it might be the throwout bearing seal cover or part of the throw out bearing somehow?

 

Subaru always has those clutch clips in stock since they are common across a zillion different models, so hopefully you have a subaru dealer close by. not sure an auto parts store will carry those.

 

hope you can replace the throw out bearing and pilot bearing while you're in there. replacing the rear separator plate with the new updated metal plate would be good to if it's a plastic one. i guess it's a little late to tell you all of this, but trans jobs suck so good to get what you can while in there.

 

good luck!

[Mikevan10]

Thanks for the comments g squared.

 

Yeah, the plastic (Teflon?) ring remains a mystery. I just looked at my Subaru factory service manual and I do not see anything like it.

 

I don't know if the Suabru dealer parts department is open on Saturdays. Hope they are since I need the clips.

 

Don't know anything about a separator plate. Do tell!

 

Normally, I would be replacing the entire clutch asembly (well, at LEAST the driven plate, the pilot bearing and the release bearing) "while I'm in there" but money is so tight right now that as long as this one lasts til Spring I'll have to take it.

 

Thanks again!

 

Mike

[Mikevan10]

Well, I wrote up my transmission swap report only to find out the board was down. Luckily for you guys, I saved it for your reading pleasure! So, here goes:

 

Did the transmission swap over the weekend. Solo job, out in the driveway, temperatures in the 20s (not including wind chilllllll!). And I aint’ as young as I used to be….

 

I had not planned on replacing any clutch parts as that had all been replaced about 50,000 miles ago. And money is very tight right now. But, when I was checking things over before jacking up the “new” transmission I discovered that the center hub in the clutch driven plate (a.k.a. disc) was kind of loose. This was obviously not correct so I spent a good part of Saturday locating and then retrieving a clutch kit. My first thought was to just replace the driven plate but the only Subaru dealer that I found open on Saturday within 40 miles of me told me that Subaru had recently changed the part numbers on the clutch parts and he couldn’t guaranty that the new disc would work with the rest of my clutch. So I ended up buying a complete after market clutch kit.

 

When I removed the clutch from the flywheel I discovered where that above mentioned plastic ring came from. It had fallen out of the clutch disc! It is some kind of insert that holds the splined center hub in position. Perhaps I could have glued it back in place but at this point I went ahead and replaced the entire clutch assembly. Incidentally, the kit did not come with the release bearing clips. I was lucky that the used trans still had the old release bearing in place so I reused those clips. Otherwise I would have had to make a long drive to the open dealer just for those little clips ( I had pondered making my own…).

 

The rest of the job went about as one can expect. I struggled for a while balancing the trans on my floor jack trying to position it to “slide it on” but eventually had to go borrow a second floor jack to support the rear end.

 

Finished up around 4 PM yesterday. One of the things that makes these transmission swaps (or just clutch replacement) so agonizing to me is that you really don’t know if everything is right until EVERYTHING is done and you drive the car. If you find out then that something is wrong, you have the ENTIRE job to do all over again! A fate to bitter to contemplate.

 

Lessons learned:

 

Have a complete clutch kit on hand even if you don’t plan to use it. You can return it if you don’t need it.

 

Have release bearing clips on hand. Dealer item.

 

Have two floor jacks plus a scissor jack (for tilting the engine) on hand. A “transmission jack” could make life a lot easier but I have never had that luxury. Anybody have any comment on that?

 

Recommendations if you have a choice:

 

Climate controlled environment (or at least shelter from the wind)

A competent assistant.

 

 

That's the story. I'll add that I drove the car to Boston and back over Thanksgiving (about 600 miles round trip). No problems (exept for the deer that smashed mty front left fender and driver side door about an hour from home).

 

Mike V.

[subaru360]

I've got pretty good at solo trans swaps on the ground. I have a garage with heat and a/c but no lift. To tilt the engine, use a ratchet strap from the pitch stopper mount on the firewall to the a/c bracket. I usually pick the front of the trans up by hand and rest it on the cross member. Then slide a jack under from the front with the handle hanging under the front bumper and start jacking the back of the trans up while holding the front in place, then slide it on the studs. I'm a tall guy with long arms so I can reach both, this might not work for everyone.