simbey1982 Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Long time no post....site redesign i see...anyhow I have a 1992 Turbo Legacy that is having a starting issue. Randomly with no consistent cause at all, the car wont turn over. I hear a click of a relay under the dash and can hear the starter sproket spring out under the hood but it doesnt turn over. Wait for some time and bam it starts no problem. Starter signal/power wire are all fine...everything is hooked up...what am i missing????? Cory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 It sounds like the starter solenoid contacts need to be replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simbey1982 Posted November 19, 2008 Author Share Posted November 19, 2008 Well here is the curve ball. Last year the same problem came up...with others as well and both the starter and alternator were replaced with new ones....now a ear later the problem is back....seems odd.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 well here is the curve ball. Last year the same problem came up...with others as well and both the starter and alternator were replaced with new ones....now a ear later the problem is back....seems odd.... what quality level replacement parts did you buy? If you bought rebuilts from az or advance auto parts, their quality is not the best; then i can see them not lasting long. Agree with other poster, it sounds like you need to replace the starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 sounds like starter to me as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 (edited) i guess you'd have to pull the starter to check the contacts, and at that point you may as well replace them. when my 97obw occasionally did this, i installed a new relay at the starter. apparently there wasn't enough juice coming from the ignition relay(?) to engage the solenoid but when the new relay was mounted at the starter, there was enough juice to activate the new relay. the new relay switches on a new fused power feed to the solenoid which then has all the power it needs to activate. and this solved my problem. but if your solenoid is clicking, your problem is probably different. most of the time, the contact replacement is the repair choice in this situation. but with a one year old starter........ Edited November 19, 2008 by johnceggleston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 This part of the original post is disturbing "can hear the starter sproket spring out under the hood but it doesnt turn over." You may have a stripped gear on the flywheel/flex plate. The starter engages enough to rotate it slightly, next time it bites the remaining teeth. If this is the case the situation will deteriorate. Remember the engine only stops at four places (when one of the pistons is on comp) I'd pull the starter and have a look see at the teeth on the flex plate/flywheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 1. Pull the starter. 2. remove the 3 screws for cover on the rear of solenoid. 3. unbolt the 2 posts that hold the contacts, noting how the insulators are installed for reassembly. 4. Clean the contacts with a wire brush till shiny, it can also help to bend them slightly towards the plunger. Clean the plunger with a wire brush till it's shiny. 5. Reinstall the starter. You should probably clean and retighten both battery cable connections and the ground where the NEG cable bolts to the block. Try this BEFORE messing with the starter. If that is all good, then clean the starter contacts and you're good to go. No need to spend $100 bucks on a Whole new starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Starters come with a year, or life time guarantee. You may be able to get a replacement starter at no cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 (edited) One other possibility is a defective battery cable to the starter. If you verify that there is at least 10 volts getting to the end of the cable at the solenoid while the starter is supposed to be running then the fault is within the starter/solenoid unit and the cable is ok. If the voltage is under 10 volts then the cable is the trouble; or the battery may have an internal connection problem. Checking the voltage at the posts will resolve that question. Edited November 19, 2008 by Cougar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simbey1982 Posted November 24, 2008 Author Share Posted November 24, 2008 1. It is a rebuilt starter from a local electical shop... 2. the sproket is fine as it starts most the time and if it was stripped i would hear it spinning and grinding. 3. Gloyale...probabablly one of the best replies ever!! im going to try that and also test my cable from the battery...will report back in a few days with the fix. Thanks for the help Cory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simbey1982 Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share Posted January 13, 2009 alright im back again.... Took the car apart for some random projects...one of those was the starting issue. I pulled the starter and took of the solenoid cover...i did the following...inspected and removed the points...they were dirty and i cleaned them up...have PLENTY of copper left on them....pulled the solenoid spring and cleaned the contact on it.....cleaned every spot with wire wheel where battery grounds and starter contacts...I even took the starter to the original shop they inspected the points and said they were fine...and it always works on their bench.... So got all my projects done started up the car...give it to the wife and she comes home with a because the car is doing the intermittent starting thing again...so ill give a detailed description again... At random...no consistency i can see...the car will not attempt to turn over...you turn the key and hold it...you can hear a relay clicking over and over in the dash somewhere and when you first turn the key you can hear a loud click come from the starter....when you let off the key the relay obviously stops and there is another click from the starter...im guessing the click is the solenoid engaging....then you wait thirty seconds, a minute, 30 minutes turn it over and it starts without a problem?? i cant think of anything other than the solenoid must be bad???? any other ideas?? Thanks Cory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleming442 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 loose battery terminal- make sure it is TIGHT. only speaking from experience........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Since it sounds like the starter solenoid is getting power I agree that the problem is most likely at the battery connections going by what was stated in the last post by the original poster. Clean the battery connections using a battery post cleaning brush. Particularly, clean the inside surface of the cable connectors. The trouble may also be due to corrosion inside the main battery leads at the battery due to acid leaching into the wire and if so the damaged leads would need to be replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 here is an old timer's trick next time it happens to you Hold the key in the start position after hearing the loud click of the starter solenoid for about 10 seconds. Quickly get out open the hood and feel all the battery /cable connections. Resistance causes heat thus you will feel the warmth in the connection that has the resistance. You might think about installing a "never fail" button under the dash to rule out the possibility of a starter circuit problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simbey1982 Posted January 14, 2009 Author Share Posted January 14, 2009 my old battery leaked acid profusely...ill try replacing the terminals because i wire brushed them till they were shiny....ive put a new battery awhile ago and it still had the same problem enlighten me on the workings of this "never fail" switch??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Mr. Simbey, The place Cougar refers to is not the part you can reach with a wire brush. It is the connection of the cable to the connector. The "never fail" switch is just a coined term for a momentary switch. It is wired with a fused hot wire from the battery to the switch. The other side of the switch get wired to the small spade connector on the back of the starter. This switch will by pass all starter circuit items. Leave the factory wiring in place if you choose then Use the "never fail" when ness. Guess Sir Simbey doesn't like old timer tricks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Does this have a car alarm on it? One quick way to rule out a battery cable, use a jumper cable from the battery to the starter then see if it wil start. Same can be done for the ground, but do one at a time. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 my old battery leaked acid profusely...ill try replacing the terminals because i wire brushed them till they were shiny....ive put a new battery awhile ago and it still had the same problem enlighten me on the workings of this "never fail" switch??? Unless you cleaned the surfaces of the cable connectors that actually make contact with the battery posts you really haven't eliminated the connections as a possible problem. Since you state that acid really leaked out a lot then the contact surfaces to the battery posts and the inside of the cable wire near the connections are suspect. You can make a small 1 inch slit in the insulation near the end of the cable to see if corrosion has gotten inside the cable. Be sure to tape up the slit if you don't replace the cable so nothing can enter the slit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simbey1982 Posted January 20, 2009 Author Share Posted January 20, 2009 hey there havent had a chance to check this in a bit ...been at work. So i took it to the local shop today and they hooked up their little battery/wiring/alternator testing thing to the wires and of course everything looked good and inspected the connectors...he recommended i look for the problem somewhere else in the starting circuit....so today im going to do the following..something i didnt mention that could be a problem is the turbo timer....it has a turbo timer installed....it was a crappy install before i got the car....honestly i think im going to take it out of the loop to eliminate it as a possibility... 1. Clean absolutley anything thats cleanable on the terminals that touches the post or the wire. 2. slit the wires and check for corrosion, then electrical tape back. 3. Tighten those babies without abandon 4. Look over my wiring diagrams and try to inspect all the wiring between the battery and starter.... Ill report back Cory PS It does have an alarm but i highly doubt any involvement from that.... PSS It is difficult to rule things out because 90% of the time it works without problem and then it doesnt and shortly after is working correctly again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 3. Tighten those babies without abandon Over tightening the battery cable connections is not a good thing to do since it stretches the connector out. This is a common mistake made. You just want them snug enough so they aren't loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bergstrom44 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Simbey1982, Just joined the forum today trying to figure out the solution to the same problem or at least I think it is the same problem. I have an '04 WRX Wagon. It has been having this issue for the past couple months, but is starting to get worse. My car will always start on a cold engine. The only time when it will not start is after I have been driving the car for a while, usually about 15 minutes after I have turned it off. I have taken it to a couple mechanics and they have not been able to figure it out. I spoke to a guy today who was having the same problem. He said that on Subaru's the downpipe leading from the turbo is right next to the starter. What is happening is that when the turbo gets hot from driving, it is transferring some of that heat to the starter causing the metal to expand in the solenoid. Then, when you try to start the car, the solenoid can't engage. After then engine has sat for a while, the metal has cooled and will allow the solenoid to engage. He suggested that I put some kind of heat shield between the starter and the downpipe. I do not know a lot about cars, but from what I have heard so far; this seems to make the most sense. What does everyone else think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Simbey1982, Just joined the forum today trying to figure out the solution to the same problem or at least I think it is the same problem. I have an '04 WRX Wagon. It has been having this issue for the past couple months, but is starting to get worse. My car will always start on a cold engine. The only time when it will not start is after I have been driving the car for a while, usually about 15 minutes after I have turned it off. I have taken it to a couple mechanics and they have not been able to figure it out. I spoke to a guy today who was having the same problem. He said that on Subaru's the downpipe leading from the turbo is right next to the starter. What is happening is that when the turbo gets hot from driving, it is transferring some of that heat to the starter causing the metal to expand in the solenoid. Then, when you try to start the car, the solenoid can't engage. After then engine has sat for a while, the metal has cooled and will allow the solenoid to engage. He suggested that I put some kind of heat shield between the starter and the downpipe. I do not know a lot about cars, but from what I have heard so far; this seems to make the most sense. What does everyone else think? Can you start this as a new thread please, it would make it easier for us. How many miles on the car, also does it crank and not run, or just do nothing. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simbey1982 Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 doesnt seem to be an issue since the starter is on the opposite side of the engine....and the transmission acts as a heat shield of sorts...not to mention the intercooler etc....but it does act up more after its been driven... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simbey1982 Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 (edited) OK so looking at this diagram of starter circuit http://www.surrealmirage.com/subaru/files/swap/6-3_starting.jpg the positive battery terminal goes straight to the starter and then Y's off into the firewall for other electrical purposes....and the only thing that tells the solenoid/starter to start is the signal wire....so is it safe to assume that if the problem was behind the signal wire then the solenoid would NOT engage because there would be NO signal to start sent...but the solenoid does engage each time..... so by looking at that diagram it HAS to be either the battery terminal/wire or the starter itself....because the signal is getting there it just isnt starting.....correct me if im wrong Cory Edited January 21, 2009 by simbey1982 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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