HalNineThousand Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 I'm a complete newbie here and I'm looking at buying a 2002 Outback. The issue that bothers me is that there is a ticking/clicking sound. When it's stopped, it idles fine, but as I accelerate, I hear the sound from about 1,500 to 2,000 RPMs with it either speeding up so it merges with normal engine noise or disappearing (I can't be sure). I talked with a local Subaru service guy who did a pre-purchase inspection for me on a Forester (that had serious problems) and he said that in some older cars that kind of sound can be normal or it could be something bad. I'm looking at several vehicles and don't want to just keep spending money on a lot of p-p inspections, so I thought I'd ask if anyone here has comments on this noise. It just seems wrong to me that cars are expected to make ticking sounds like this, but I could see how it could happen. Any comments or suggestions are welcome. Of course I'll get a PPI, but I'm trying to eliminate any bad cars first so I'm only getting one or two more of those (they add up in price!) if possible. Thanks for any help on this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbhrps Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Hal9000, My last OBW LTD was an 02 that I bought new and loved so much that I kept it for 5 years. It developed a bit of piston slap (sounded more like "pock pock pock" when cold ) at about 23 000 km and it always went away as the engine heated up. The noise was always more pronounced during the cold months of the year. Piston slap may be annoying but will not shorten the engine's life in any way, or lead to major repairs. This may be what you're hearing, then again maybe not. If it is indeed piston slap, you'll have to decide whether it annoys you enough to pass on this car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalNineThousand Posted November 21, 2008 Author Share Posted November 21, 2008 Thanks for the reply! What exactly is a piston slap? If that turns out to be the only problem with the car, then I can easily deal with it. I've test driven this car two times, but neither time was it out for more than 10 minutes, so that wasn't long enough to see if it was different when it warmed up. I forgot that the service tech I talked to had asked if it disappeared when the car warmed up. I thought of it as a tick or click, which isn't exact. When you say "pock pock pock," do you mean like the sound of metal tapping or hitting (but not slamming) on metal? That would come close to describing what I heard. Here's to hoping that's all it is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 ticking is tough, it could be a slew of things. piston slap is easily recognizable because it's worst at start up and gradually decreases as the engine temp increases. at operating temp it should be quietest. there are a number of other things it could be. heat shields on the exhaust, any pulley bearing, timing belt tensioner, oil pump back plate screws i believe can cause some associative noise if they're really loose, fuel injectors. a general check....ears and mechanics stethoscope should quickly narrow it down. good to carefully inspect the head gasket on that car. for that particular year/phase engine you need to check the head to block mating surface on the rear of the engine, that's where they show up first. be nice if it was already replaced. some 2000+ head gaskets have a 100,000 mile extended head gasket warranty, so if it's under that it might still be under warranty. also this is a 100,000 mile interval timing belt engine. being an interference engine means significant engine damage will occur if the belt breaks, so keep in mind you could have a significant and expensive maintenance coming up on it. if there's no record of when it was done, it needs to be checked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalNineThousand Posted November 21, 2008 Author Share Posted November 21, 2008 So about how much is it to replace the timing belt on this car? I'm looking at several cars so if this one is a "finalist," it'll definitely get a pre-purchase inspection. (A few years ago I spent a total of $190 on PPIs and it saved me about $5,000. A $90 PPI on a Forester today saved me about $3,000, so I'm a strong believer in getting a PPI!) Remember, there is basically no noise at idle, it only shows up as I accelerate. I should have known to check with a metal rod or pipe, that just slipped by me. If I were at home working on my car (which is an '85!), I would have thought of it, but not on a car lot where I didn't bring tools or anything. Thanks for pointing that out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbhrps Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Hal9000, For several years Subaru kept the length of the piston skirts as short as possible to reduce piston weight and lengthen engine life. The result was that in some engines when cold, the pistons would flop back and forth in the cylinders until they heated up and expanded enough to contact the cylinder walls more closely. I believe that the problem was eliminated in the 2005 model year, as well as the leaking head gasket problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 So about how much is it to replace the timing belt on this car? the subaru dealer quoted my cousin $699 two years ago for the timing belt only. i told her no way, and did it for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcastle Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Hal9000, My last OBW LTD was an 02 that I bought new and loved so much that I kept it for 5 years. It developed a bit of piston slap (sounded more like "pock pock pock" when cold ) at about 23 000 km and it always went away as the engine heated up. The noise was always more pronounced during the cold months of the year. Piston slap may be annoying but will not shorten the engine's life in any way, or lead to major repairs. This may be what you're hearing, then again maybe not. If it is indeed piston slap, you'll have to decide whether it annoys you enough to pass on this car. I always wondered what that sound was when I first start up my 2002 OBW. It goes away after a while, so I've never worried about it. Thought it was part of the warming up process, so I guess I was right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 The car's symptoms are NOT consistent with "piston slap". The "ticking" that comes from piston slap is present at idle after star up and generally improves as the engine warms up. BTW, "piston slap" can make quite a racket, it did on my 1999 Forester. How many miles on the car? The engine on my 1999 Forester developed a ticking noise as the car got older. It never caused a problem, but I sold the car 200,000 miles so I don't know the ultimate outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalNineThousand Posted November 22, 2008 Author Share Posted November 22, 2008 Approximately 130,000 miles on the car. How quickly does piston slap go away? I was driving for up to 10 minutes and still hearing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crash321 Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 I myself have a 98 outback with 151,000 on the clock, Since it has gotten cold out, I just started getting the piston slap sound. It gets louder as I accelerate but disappears after about 5 miles. If you are still hearing it after the engine is warmed up, you may have a different problem with the car. You should probably drive the car for at least 1/2 hour min, that way you can get a feel for the car and know for sure if any other problems crop up the owner my be trying to hide. Timing belt at an indy shop was under 200.:cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickensheets Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Drive it again for 20min. Get on the open road if you can then pull off and park. Listen to it then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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