Mikevan10 Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Gary suggested a hub with a different offset but I don't believe Simp ever mentioned changing out any "hubs". But for that matter, I think he just mentioned for the first time having ripped a CV joint boot on his "original" drive axle. On the other hand, I stiil don't see why one would pull the engine to do clutch and belt work!?! Mike V. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 also, did anyone mention this. automatic axle is different length than 5spd axle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 also, did anyone mention this. automatic axle is different length than 5spd axle. NO but you just did Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bratman18 Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 also, did anyone mention this. automatic axle is different length than 5spd axle. It is? I didn't know that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyKeith Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 On the other hand, I stiil don't see why one would pull the engine to do clutch and belt work!?! Mike V. Have you ever done a clutch on a subaru? I can only imagine you haven't, because if you had then you would think you would understand. But since it's lunch hour and I'm bored with work, here's an explaination: To pull the motor(not actually taking the motor out, just lifting it foreward enough to gain access) and radiator(for extra clerance) and access the clutch is 15 bolts (6 exhaust, 2 motor mouts, 1 "dog bone", 4 trans to engine, and 2 radiator support), two hose clamps, and about 1 hour labor. The other option of pulling the trans which takes a lot more. Completely dropping the the exhaust, the heat sheild between the exhaust and drive shaft, the drive shaft (Which means you also have to deal with gear oil possibly leaking out of the open drive shaft spot) and then the trans. That actually totals up to about 29 bolts (6 exhaust to heads, 1 exhaust to trans, 6 heat sheid, 4 driveshaft to rear diff, 2 driveshaft carrier bearing, 4 engine to trans, 1 "dog bone", 1 starter, 4 rear trans crossmember) Oh, and then you also have to remove the front halfshafts..... So hopefully now if you ever need to do a clutch you can understand why you pull the engine. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyKeith Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 also, did anyone mention this. automatic axle is different length than 5spd axle. Are you sure? What makes you think so? Are you think of the loyales/GLs? I've done several searches through http://www.PartsAmerica.com and http://www.car-part.com which show the same part for both AT and MT. To top that, you can see my earlier post where I mention owning and 96AT and a 95MT and not seeing a difference in half shafts. That's because I'm driving a 96AT with a half shaft I rebuild out of my 95MT car..... If there is a difference Me, car-parts.com, and partsamerica.com don't know it. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Do not go by aftermarket web sites for information on parts that we know they all screw up to begin with. 1st subaru has seperate listings (and major differnces in prices) between manual and automatic axles. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bratman18 Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Do not go by aftermarket web sites for information on parts that we know they all screw up to begin with. 1st subaru has seperate listings (and major differnces in prices) between manual and automatic axles. nipper Yeah I agree with not going off what aftermarket says but I have interchanged subaru axles between the two tranny's before. I never noticed a difference. I would be interested to see what subaru says are the actual differences are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Yeah I agree with not going off what aftermarket says but I have interchanged subaru axles between the two tranny's before. I never noticed a difference. I would be interested to see what subaru says are the actual differences are. You know this may lead us down the road to solving the engine vibration. As the auto axels are almost 200.00 more then the manuals. hrmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyKeith Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 You know this may lead us down the road to solving the engine vibration. As the auto axels are almost 200.00 more then the manuals. hrmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm nipper Maybe the MT shafts are longer, and I've never had an issue because I put the longer shaft in place of what should be a shorter..... got me. I'll have to stop by my dealership tomorrow morning and chat with my parts guy and get some exploded drawings from him. He likes doing that kind of crap with me. We just did it a few weeks ago for brake calipers on my 96. Stupid half way through the model year change of calipers. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyKeith Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 You know this may lead us down the road to solving the engine vibration. As the auto axels are almost 200.00 more then the manuals. hrmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm nipper I'm changing my tune on this back to what I originally said about there being no difference. I called my parts guy and he said (and verified as I was on the phone with him) that both the MT and AT axles for a 95 Legacy point to the same remanufactured axle part number of 28021AC171. He said there were two different part numbers at one point, but they all now piont to the same number. So in subaru's eyes there is now no difference between Auto and Manual. You can put the above part number in 1stsubaruparts and look at it. NOW, This isn't to say that this particular reman isn't messed up in some way. I'll be curious to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Which brings us bact to the laboratory...... We really need to disect a few of these axles. Back to our original issue, by how much does the axle miss the stub Nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 i've interchanged numerous auto/manual axles both ways, always assumed they were interchangeable like the XT6 - never had a problem yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikevan10 Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Hi Keith, As a matter of fact, I have removed and replaced transmissions on Subarus (both automatic and manual) at least six times over the years. I have done all of them by “dropping the trans”. I have never pulled an engine on one. I will be the first to agree that doing the job the way I have always done it is no picnic! But I had always assumed that dealing with the coolant, pulling the radiator, dealing with the electrics, vacuum lines, fuel lines, etc that would be required to pull the engine would be even worse. Besides, I would have thought that you’d still have to do same stuff to disconnect the drive axles and I would think you’d have the same gear oil complications. Plus I do not have a lift rig of any type, so I’d have to go through the hassle and expense of renting one. Rereading your post, Keith, I see that you are only talking about doing a clutch job, not replacing the transaxle. So you are not moving the transaxle at all, just sliding the engine forward, huh? Interesting concept. I will definitely consider that possibility next time. Exactly how do you move the engine forward and then back? I would think that may be tricky without a lift of some sort. But, I am willing to consider the pull engine/trans as a unit option. As I described in my recent “Noisy Legacy transmission” thread (check it out), doing the trans-drop job on these cars is a bit of a nightmare for me. Subaru360 commented in his post on that thread that he simply lifts the front of the trans up by hand, rests it on a cross member, slips a floor jack under the back and slides it right on! I know I’m about 20 years his senior but I don’t think I ever had the grunt to pull off what he’s describing! Not with these transaxles, anyway. Sorry for the thread hijack. And thanks for the advice! Mike V. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 first let me say i do not have very much hands on experience on axles. but... from the picture provided by the original poster, the axles, old and new, APPEAR to be the same and he stated they had the same 'range of motion'. but more interesting, i think i remember, he stated he tried to re-install the old axle and had the same problem as with the new. this leads me to believe that it has to do with the configuration or the alignment during the install. i liked the idea putting nthe weight of the car on the wheel and then going for the trans hookup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 i like what JCE said - if the axles appear the same, and the old axle is no different im' not sure what getting more axles is going to do for you. if you're wondering, save the trip to the store and just try the other side, they are identical left to right and i think maybe you did try that. if it's the same then the axle is not the problem (which we already expect). so the geometry needs to be checked - hubs, trans mount, something has to give. even if the "drop it to the ground" method worked to hook up to the trans i still would'nt want to drive it like that, something is definitely wrong if that's what it takes to install an axle. EJ axles are piece of cake to replace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simpreza2 Posted December 5, 2008 Author Share Posted December 5, 2008 i like what JCE said - if the axles appear the same, and the old axle is no different im' not sure what getting more axles is going to do for you. if you're wondering, save the trip to the store and just try the other side, they are identical left to right and i think maybe you did try that. if it's the same then the axle is not the problem (which we already expect). so the geometry needs to be checked - hubs, trans mount, something has to give. . I tired to get the other side off and I couldn't. Breaker bar broke, 1/2' impact didnt budge it, so I left it alone. Yesterday I measured to make sure everything is in line and square, which it is. And for more good news... My car is back together! So, yesterday I ordered a NAPA Maxdrive axle which they got in this morning. I just installed it w/ no problems. I installed it the normal way, hub side first then tranny side and put the pin in. When I lowered it to the ground everything looks perfect. I took it for a 10 min ride with no problems. When I measured the NAPA axle with the old axle it seems to be 1/4 longer but I think that was b/c I couldn't get the old axle to be either fully extended or compressed. However the inner boot is way different on the NAPA axle. It has 4 ridges/bumps/accordion type folds where my old axle and the rebuild only had 3 on the inside. I'm not sure if this is what really made the difference, but it looks good and she drives like she did before, so shes fixed for now. Thanks again everyone for the help and suggestions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 +1 for correct parts. -you mean i can't put a 15" tire on a 16" rim lol doh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bratman18 Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Congrats! Did you notice how much beefier the Max Drive axle was? You should have good luck with it! Glad you finally got it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyKeith Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 A newly remanufactured axle can be near impossible to get fully exended with out a mechanical advantage such as the threading of the axle nut. With a good amount of fresh grease and a tight seal on the CV boot you create a vaccuum inside the inner boot that fights against fully stretching that joint. Sounds like some of what I was saying was the case. The combination of crappy inner boot design and fresh rebuild limited your ability to fully extend the joint. Just glad to hear you got it together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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