Loyale HVAC Controller Vacuum Woes - Solved!

[pixO]

I have a '93 Subaru Loyale. 1.8L SPFI, 5spd manual, 2WD, factory A/C, with some HVAC controller vacuum issues.

 

I only get heat / A/C out of the main dash vents, not the lower or upper/defrost vents. I checked the vacuum canister in the engine compartment, on the passenger-side and there's plenty of vacuum. The hose looks good as well. I traced it back through the body plug and into the cabin. While I was contorted to a very odd shape, I noticed two vacuum servos. For kicks, I manually operated them. Success! The bottom one changed the air to the lower vents and the top one changed the air to the defrost vents. They don't operate when you push different settings on the dash.

 

Vacuum Servos:

 

 

 

While I was down there, I noticed a connector with two hoses coming out of it. One was marked 2 and the other was marked 3. I'm pretty sure they route to the dashpots, but it was dark and I couldn't feel my knees anymore I was wondering if mine looks normal, or am I missing some hoses/the mating connector & what is it's purpose?

 

Vacuum Connector:

 

 

What am I missing/what is the culprit for non-functioning push-button controls. Also, I noticed that the clutch on my A/C turns on randomly even with my heater on (I get plenty of heat, it's just odd that it turns on).. is that a normal subaru/loyale feature?

Edited December 7, 2008 by pixO

[subiemech85]

heat / A/C out of the main dash vents is the "default" mode

 

you need black "resin" plastic spaghetti straws to join the rubber tubes in the second pic at the junction block

 

remove the dashboard trim, screws behind defrost, off on the right side, top and bottom corners, also for the left side, 2 screws under visor, and 2 screws under bottom edge

 

be careful as all is fragile

 

first one I had was rigged so it had constant defrost

 

read here for more info: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=6915&highlight=constant+sucking

[pixO]

you need black "resin" plastic spaghetti straws to join the rubber tubes in the second pic at the junction block

 

Based on your tear down instructions, I'm assuming that the junction block is located on the cluster?

 

 

connection 1 goes to the servo labled as "B" sits at app. a 45 degree angle on the side of the hivac unit (windscreen heat)

 

connection 2 goes to the servo marked as "A" sits horizontal on the side of the unit (dash/floor vents)

 

connection 3 goes to the servo marked as "D" and is on top of the unit. (fresh air /recir) - A/C/Fresh Air is manually controlled by a lever to the left of the steering wheel.

 

Why don't I have a hose with "1" on it? I can't assume it's a feature my car didn't have because a previous owner has already messed with the vacuum lines and graciously removed some parts that I need.

Edited December 4, 2008 by pixO

[DaveT]

The white plastic devices in your picture labeled "Dashpots:" are actually vacuum servos.

[pixO]

The white plastic devices in your picture labeled "Dashpots:" are actually vacuum servos.

 

Thanks for the information. I'm sure there are several names for these parts & it probably depends on your background/where you are located in the world

 

Does anyone know if the A/C clutch is supposed to run randomly even when I have the car set to "Heat" or is that a byproduct of missing vacuum lines that runs from the cluster to the two vacuum servos?

 

Also, why would I be missing a vacuum line with "1" on it & what is it meant for since my setup doesn't match the previously quoted post.

[hooziewhatsit]

It sounds to me like your problem is probably in the HVAC controls/slider assembly.

 

IIRC, it's normal for the AC compressor to run in some positions. I believe it's to 'dry' the air and aid in defrosting the windshield.

 

I think your second picture looks normal.

 

-Dave

[subiemech85]

in picture 2 you should have the junction block as I described, but you only have the rubber tubes that lead to the servos

 

A/C/Fresh Air is manually controlled by a lever to the left of the steering wheel, also by a thumb wheel for the right side vent we are not talking about the same system, the servo controlls recirc for max ac when ac button is pushed in all the way

your system does not match because parts are missing

 

did you remove the dash panel?

 

what did you find???

 

the resin tubes go from controller to junction block

 

if you want, call me and I can walk you through it!

515

577

5120

[pixO]

in picture 2 you should have the junction block as I described, but you only have the rubber tubes that lead to the servos

 

A/C/Fresh Air is manually controlled by a lever to the left of the steering wheel, also by a thumb wheel for the right side vent we are not talking about the same system, the servo controlls recirc for max ac when ac button is pushed in all the way

your system does not match because parts are missing

 

did you remove the dash panel?

 

what did you find???

 

the resin tubes go from controller to junction block

 

I haven't removed anything yet as I just finished up installing rear speakers and the back seat (priorities right.. sound or heat.. haha). It'll get dark before I get off work the next couple of days, so I'll probably end up waiting until the weekend to tear into the dash.

[subiemech85]

feel free to call me then as I can walk you through every inch of the system

[pixO]

feel free to call me then as I can walk you through every inch of the system

 

Thanks, I have access to ALLDATA & Mitchell OnDemand, but some things aren't clearly described & they assume (rightly so) that I have everything hooked up correctly and all parts are accounted for

 

Just to confirm, I'm removing "Visor A" (Listed as #4 - see drawing below):

 

Loyale Exploded Dash:

 

 

edit: I decided to go out there and try to remove the trim piece that's between the steering wheel and the instrument cluster:

 

 

I can't seem to get it off after removing all the screws (All 9 of them). It's stuck near the main-level vents on the left and right side. Do I just need to be a little more forceful? I don't want to break it!

Edited December 4, 2008 by pixO

[pixO]

I pulled and pulled and that stupid dash piece would not release from the right-side vent (center vents if you are looking at the entire dash). I could see the tab it was stuck on, it just wouldn't let go. I pulled a bit harder and it finally let go. I removed the two screws to the blower adjuster (radial dial, numbered 1-4) and unplugged all the connectors holding the dash trim in and removed it.

 

My parking/running lights turned on, so I pulled every fuse until they turned off since I didn't plan on finishing up tonight because it's 23 degrees out.

 

I pulled the HVAC controller out and saw three vacuum hoses, labeled 1-3 and some hard plastic/resin lines that pointed downward, so I followed them down to the bottom trim piece that's below the radio. The black vacuum connector that mates to the white one I took a picture of earlier was below the ghetto rigged trim piece and the metal tab holding it in was OUTSIDE the plastic. Obviously, a previous owner had no idea what they were doing when they removed that piece below the radio. I'll update later with a picture or two, but needless to say, I didn't need to tear into my dash :-\

 

You live and learn I guess. I am becoming more and more familiar with my Loyale.

Edited December 5, 2008 by pixO

[subiemech85]

you did not guide the plastic in the right direction, angle left side down and to the rear

did you forget to remove the screws from the controller before removing the "visor"??

 

no need to remove the screws to hold in the fan switch, all connections can be disconnected easily

 

when moving the visor, you flipped the "virgin" switch

 

you should have seen 4 hoses marked 1 2 4, 3 is not labeled, think son of 666 in japanese mythology

[pixO]

you did not guide the plastic in the right direction, angle left side down and to the rear

I moved it all kinds of directions The panel has white junk yard writing on it on the bottom side & it's been messed with before, so it wasn't very easy. One screw on the bottom left side was almost stripped + the u-nut was toast. (it's been in an accident or two and someone must have hit the dash hard enough to break it, at least that's my thought.)

 

did you forget to remove the screws from the controller before removing the "visor"??

 

no need to remove the screws to hold in the fan switch, all connections can be disconnected easily

There were 9 screws, sans the two behind the radial switch (it's dark + freezing out... I missed the connector to it), so that wasn't the issue. Either way, I figured out the mystery - some people need to make sure everything works when you put stuff back together

 

 

Thanks for all the help. I'll be sure to post once I get it all back together tomorrow/this weekend.

 

 

edit: There are four hoses on the HVAC controller. From top to bottom, it goes 1, 2, 4, 3. There is one last nipple near the bottom of the controller that doesn't have a vacuum hose attached. I noticed that I only have two hoses that run down to this part of the vacuum setup - hoses 2 and 3:

 

 

The third one, labeled number 1, runs off towards another vacuum servo on the right-side of the dash, behind the glove box.

 

I'm not sure where number 4 goes. Errrrr. That's gotta be the inlet hose, right?

Edited December 5, 2008 by pixO

[subiemech85]

you can use the "center" screw and clip-nut from the fuse box to replace the crappy one

 

all "visors" I have seen come standard with writing in white ink on the bottom edge, left side, looks to be jap. character

 

I did mine in the well lit and warm garage, 70*f and harbor freight led light

 

the light is super awesome, and works great http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=94668

[pixO]

you can use the "center" screw and clip-nut from the fuse box to replace the crappy one

 

all "visors" I have seen come standard with writing in white ink on the bottom edge, left side, looks to be jap. character

 

I did mine in the well lit and warm garage, 70*f and harbor freight led light

 

the light is super awesome, and works great http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=94668

 

Hrm.. I have a mini mag light with an LED upgrade.. haha.

 

Anyway, to make my previous post clearer:

 

FACTORY SETUP: (per this post)

• Vacuum Hose 1 goes to the servo that controls the Windshield/Defrost servo.
  
• Vacuum Hose 2 goes to the servo that controls the Dash/Floor Vents servo.
  
• Vacuum Hose 3 goes to the servo that controls the Fresh Air/Recirc servo.
  

 

MY SETUP

• Vacuum Hose 1 goes to the servo that controls the Fresh Air/Recirc servo.
  
• Vacuum Hose 2 goes to the servo that controls the Windshield/Defrost servo.
  
• Vacuum Hose 3 goes to the servo that controls the Dash/Floor Vents servo.
  

 

One more edit.. haha. I looked at that white writing and it's definitely english. It's marked "352" in an ink pen. :shrug: Either way, it'll all get fixed correctly. This is really a lot of work for a "cheap" commuter car.

Edited December 5, 2008 by pixO

[subiemech85]

try it and "see" what happens

 

defrost could be heat

 

if you still have issues, I can see how mine is set up later

[pixO]

Before I looked into all of this, I had heat & A/C through the main vents only. Adjusting the temperature slider adjusted the temperature without issue and hitting the MAX A/C button appeared to work, though I just roll the windows down. I didn't have any control over where the air was coming from, which wasn't an issue until now because of the inside glass fogging up.

 

I'll do a test before I get the dash back together to see if my car is special or just ghetto-rigged to work partially.

 

Again, thanks for all the helpful advice subiemech85.

[Skip]

The AC system is controlled via a microswitch.

This microswitch is activated by a rod that moves

anytime the HVAC system is in the AC, AC Max, or Defrost position

 

Some vacuum servo is moving this rod.

As a stop gap you could disconnect the microswitch

Shown here

[pixO]

The AC system is controlled via a microswitch.

This microswitch is activated by a rod that moves

anytime the HVAC system is in the AC, AC Max, or Defrost position

 

Some vacuum servo is moving this rod.

As a stop gap you could disconnect the microswitch

Shown here

 

-IMG-

Thanks Skip. I'm still at work, but I'll look into it when I get home. Being that my setup matches yours at this point, I think I just need to hook a couple things up to confirm there aren't any hose leaks (which could have been why it was messed with to begin with) and then reassemble the dash.

 

 

<3 USMB

[Skip]

You are most welcome Pix.

 

It is a convoluted system under there, but it sure

sounds like you have a firm handle on it.

 

Good luck, mate.

 

 

P.S. don't forget to check the check valve in the system.

I have not seen it mentioned.

All vacuum can be lost when going up a hill

if it is not functional or has been by passed.

 

It should be incorporated in the white vacuum storage

canister on the shelf behind the pass strut tower.

[pixO]

I hooked everything backup to the dash panel to make sure the HVAC controls were working and I can now adjust where my air comes from

 

The only problem now is that my running lights won't turn off unless I pull fuse 19 for Power Door Locks.

 

I hit the switch on top of the steering column when I took the dash panel out. Hahahaha. Man.. that's a relief.

Edited December 7, 2008 by pixO

[subiemech85]

 

when moving the visor, you flipped the "virgin" switch

 

hate to say it, but told you so

[pixO]

hate to say it, but told you so

 

I didn't get it because I've never noticed that switch before haha. I leave my headlights "on" and I never park anywhere with a need for it. Ohhhh well. Thanks for the help. The dash is back together and I plan to install the front door speakers tomorrow.

Edited December 7, 2008 by pixO