Where to start on impreza fix?

[crockettbrat]

Hey all:

 

I picked up an impreza last night for my wife. The woman I bought it from said it ran out of coolant and started clicking and died. So I assume it will need a new engine. No problem, but this person obviously doesn't know anything about vehicles. The radiator appears to have failed too.

 

I was thinking of replacing the radiator and attempting to start the engine to see if it really is toast. Any reason not to do this? The head gaskets still look clean and dry so from the outside they still look good. I haven't had much time to look at much because I spent the evening getting it towed to my house.

 

Any recommendations on where to start appreciated. I'll go to the junk yard today to look for an engine. I figure the swap will be the best/fastest fix and then I'll have a spare ej22 to rebuild and store for either this car or my brat. Here's a pic of the brat because I think all my old pics are gone.

 

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn227/crockettbrat/P1010245.jpg?t=1228317807

 

Thanks,

 

Daniel

[crockettbrat]

Another question:

 

What year ej22 will be the most direct swap? Obviously 1998 impreza, but are other obdII ej22's from different model subarus a direct swap? Thanks for any info.

 

Daniel

[idosubaru]

any 1996-1998 EJ22 will work. legacy, impreza, auto or manual.

 

an EJ22 from a 1995 automatic will work as well but you'll have to also swap the exhaust manifold (easy, because you have to unbolt it anyway to remove engine).

 

i've owned one 1998 OBS auto that didn't have EGR on it at all, but that's really weird. so if you can, just check to make sure the new engine has EGR because yours will.

 

15 years ago or so i overheated my first subaru until it wouldn't run any more. it was running hot but i didn't know/care and just kept driving it. got to the point it had no power and had to down shift to 4th, 3rd...then 1st....which i kept driving it and it just died. ended up replacing the water pump and driving it for a long time after that, though it did start loosing coolant a couple years later. knowing what i know now i would assume that car was dead and probably wouldn't believe my own story.

[Suzam]

I'd check the oil and try to start it and see if the engine will run at all. Even without coolant you can run it for a minute or two without damage. Then you can make a decision on starting with just a radiator or more.

 

Can you tell how it ran out of coolant?

[crockettbrat]

Hey gary:

 

Thanks for the info. I guess I'll try to start it and see what happens. I've got a water pump and timing belt kit for a 1993 ej22 on my shelf, would these parts fit on the 1998 ej22? Thanks for any info.

 

Daniel

[crockettbrat]

12-03-2008 08:05 AM

Suzam

Re: Where to start on impreza fix?

I'd check the oil and try to start it and see if the engine will run at all. Even without coolant you can run it for a minute or two without damage. Then you can make a decision on starting with just a radiator or more.

 

Can you tell how it ran out of coolant?

 

 

Hey there:

 

I'll start looking at it after work, but its definitely still dripping coolant out of the bottom of the radiator, or somewhere near there. I take this as a good sign that the engine still has some coolant in it. The woman I bought it from said she tried to put in more water and it just spilled out the bottom. I haven't even looked at the hoses yet, but I will when I'm done with work today. I'm super cheap, so trust me, I'll go through it and try to get it running before I throw any money at it. So far I'm in $500. We'll see what happens.

 

Daniel

[idosubaru]

not sure on the earlier EJ22's. i think some of the pulleys/tensioners are different but not sure. timing belt and water pump i believe are the same though.

[crockettbrat]

So it looks like the drain plug on the radiator fell apart. Its still there but the plastic threads are toast and the plug was just sitting loosely in the hole. I pulled the plugs on the passenger side and the front one has a green tint on the end of the plug and the back one had small droplets of moisture, so I'm assuming this means bad head gasket, probably on both sides. Here's a pic of the plug I dont know if the green will show up, but I've never seen green on a plug before.

 

If this engine only needs head gaskets and water pump then great. What should I do next? Is there any definitive way to check the bottom end without ripping the whole engine apart? It turns over with no problem and sounds normal when I tried to start it. I got a big waft of burnt oil smell when I did that too. Any suggestions appreciated. I'm thinking I'll pull the motor and remove the heads and inspect them for damage.

 

Daniel

Edited December 3, 2008 by crockettbrat

[idosubaru]

i don't think there's a way to verify the condition of the bearings for the long haul. if they're not making any noises now then there's not much you can do except hope and change that oil like a champ.

 

a leak down test might show signs of ring wear if the head gaskets aren't too horribly blown.

 

i'd attempt two things first. i'd try and talk to the person you bought it from and find out how many miles this thing was driven like this and how long it was driven overheated. let them know they're doing you a favor on the rebuild by telling you the truth.

 

the second thing i'd do is price out EJ22's. it's not terribly difficult to pick up good, low mileage EJ22's for really cheap.

 

a proper head gasket job is going to cost $300 probably for machine shop work and parts. deck the heads, pressure test, and valve job. i think i'd be able to find an engine for less than that around my area. i'd rather have a known good, previously running engine than one that's been overheated and is questionable.

 

also - the EJ22 head gaskets are easily done in the car if that matters to you at all.

 

good luck.

[crockettbrat]

Thanks gary for the reply.

 

The woman was driving out of town to move to LA and she had the car towed 18 miles to the shop, so it couldn't have gone that far. She said her heater was working and then all of a sudden it stopped working and then a few miles later she over heated the car and it died.

 

I will start looking for a new motor, but I'll pull this one and rip into to see what it looks like. Maybe I'll rebuild it and keep it as a spare. Thanks very much.

 

Daniel

[idosubaru]

sorry to prompt another option, but with all the unknowns it's hard to know which is best for you. if you have time, you could gasket slap it and see how it runs/compression tests. you'd only pay for the gaskets and motor might run great. there's some notes on USMB about prepping heads yourself.

 

if you live in a really inexpensive area like i do a simple head mill might be cheap, my local shop charges $12, which almost freaks me out!

 

i've gasket-slapped a few cars without doing anything to the heads. not my recommendation, but sometimes friends just don't have the cash (which i why i'm doing the jobs free!). and they held.

[crockettbrat]

Hey Gary:

 

I'll pull the heads and see how they look. I live the the sf bay area and I bet machine shops here charged $12 for that service in the 1950's. I've got a local shop that I've worked with before so I'll get a price to have them check out and deck the head for me.

 

Have you ever seen the green tint on sparkplugs before? I was thinking that the head gasket was leaking internally for a while to get this green tint on the plugs, or could that happen quickly?

 

Anyhow, thanks for the idea. I do have time and would love it if I ended up with a great running, nice looking, less than $1000 impreza. Thanks again.

 

Daniel

 

ps- I also meant to ask about the really strong burnt oil smell. Is that common with head gasket/overheat? The burnt smell is really strong and the plastic airbox between the maf and the tps has a bit of oil in it and it stank up my shop. Thanks.

Edited December 4, 2008 by crockettbrat

[idosubaru]

that sounds pretty bad, i've only ever seen one that bad and it was a turbo that completely self destructed. gaskets blown to pieces, oil everywhere, even in the MAF and the MAF screen was torn as well. i didn't bother with it, i replaced the engine.

 

you might want to start a new thread about burnt oil smell? some of the more knowledgeable folks might have some comments on that.

 

i'm from the DC area where prices are about like you're going to see then. they charge a minimum one hour/$50-$75 for anything. this place out here has actually billed me for exactly $12 for one head, bizarre. and it's a full on NAPA place that does the work for the local Subaru dealer. they just don't warranty their work if you only mill the head without pressure testing it...ooohhhhh.

[Gnuman]

Before we jump into a full "replace the engine or else" mode, lets see what we can do to determine if the old engine is actually bad. Try to turn teh engine with a 22mm socket on a 1/2" breaker bar. If it turns without any indication of binding, then we need to check out the battery. If the battery/alternator was bad, then it would be a good bet that the clicking was the sound of her trying to start with a flat battery. In these cases, you can get away with a lot less work than swapping out the engine. . .

 

As for the green tint on the plugs, if you had been getting coolant in the compression chamber, the plugs would have looked steam cleaned, and that plug did not seem to look like that to me. Could have been the photography though

[Gnuman]

OK, that is what I get for posting in a hurry. . .

 

Go to SP Autoparts in San Pablo. They have a machine shop that I trust real well (The do all the work for Albany Subaru). and get ethe heads decked and valves cut (should run about $160 for both heads). I get my parts from Jason at 1stsubaruparts.com as well. if you want the backup, give me a PM and I will reply with my phone # and you can call me to help if yyou need it. I have taken *lots* of these engines apart when I was pulling the EJ22's out of totaled Legacies for transplant into Vanagon's (refurbished the engines while they were out) and also the Phase I EJ25's in 1st gen Outbacks. Got all my work done at SP auto, and all my parts from Jason too. . .