2004 Subaru Legacy 35th Overheating

[danko2000]

Hello everyone,

 

Maybe someone can lead me in the right direction with this complicated mess. Its a long thread but see if you can give me some advice.

 

I just replace the t-belt and water pump. Since then the car started to overheat going up hill or on the highway, if I drove it for more than a half hour. I thought I might have done something wrong so I took it to my mechanic. He decided to change the t-stat since I didn't replace it. left the garage and I had the same problem. I took it back and he check the timing belt. He told me I was off by a couple teeth so he corrected the timing. Don't know if that was true since the car ran fine but I took his word for it. I ended up going for a long drive and the temp gage began to incline 3/4 of the way. I ended up calling him up and he said it must be the head gasket. Prior of this whole mess I did have an external leak at 64,000 miles which I fixed (if you want to say it was fixed) by putting in stop a leak. I wanted to make sure that it was the head gasket so I took it to the dealer. The dealer said the head gasket was leaking and wanted the radiator sent out to get flushed and replace the gasket for $2000. Oh! by the way. The car is an automatic with 124000 miles. Also, it take only 5 minutes for the temp to reach the half way mark. Is that normal?

 

Here is my question(s).

If it is the head gasket would that cause the car to overheat (3/4 way) only driving it on the highway for more than an hour? If so, do I have to pull the motor in order to replace the head gasket? Any insight will be greatly appreciated.

[EVOthis]

First of all Welcome to the USMB.......

 

as for your vehicle first off make absouletely sure that all the air is burped out of the system......as for your head gaskets...yours should be a SOHC engine..the SOHC are not to difficult to do with the engine in the car...

[subsince77]

So, does the heating stop at 3/4 even if you keep driving?

 

Is the external leak still there? Or is it fixed?

 

Someone here will know, but I don't think a minor EXTERNAL leak will cause overheating anyway, assuming that the coolant is never allowed to get low.

 

Bummer - external HG leak on an 04 - i was hoping they were OK.

 

I would second the burping idea first. It is a common problem and free to fix. Just be really careful to never allow the temp to go any higher as you are trying to find the cause.

 

Yes, just a few minutes to reach the half-way, or normal running temp is normal. My 97 takes about that long in all weather conditions from summer to -30.

[idosubaru]

you are correct, the external leaks on Phase II SOHC EJ25's (what you have) do not cause overheating in and of themselves.

 

a simple compression test might show your head gasket leak for sure. those only take 30 minutes top and require only removing the spark plugs.

 

these cars are notorious for having problems getting all of the air out of the cooling system once it's been opened. when you replaced the water pump did you bleed the air through the radiator valve or burp it some other way?

 

if you didn't properly bleed the air my guess is that the car overheated after the water pump replacement and blew...or "finished blowing" the head gasket.

 

of course you want to check simple things like is the coolant level good and are there any leaks? all the work previously done was done right?

[ccrinc]

I recommend you also have the radiator tested. ANY kind of stop leak in a Subaru is not a wise decision. The most common result is clogging of the radiator.

 

IF the radiator is clogged, and IF the system gets burped correctly, and IF you used a Subaru Genuine thermostat, it's possible that by now the headgaskets are also leaking. That would depend on how often and how badly the car overheated.

 

Emily

http://www.ccrengines.com

[danko2000]

Hi everyone,

How do you burp the system. I was always under the impression that you turn on the heat full blast and fill the radiator until the coolant level doesn't go down anymore.

The weird thing about this whole situation is that the car ran fine until I did the T-belt and pump. The reason why i did the service was because the coolant was low (cause of the head gasket) and decided to do the T-belt and pump. Now this has become more of a headache than ever. Do you think I have a bad belt or waterpump? The temp will only go 3/4 of the way if I drive it around for about an hour with the heat turned off. I believe it will continue rising if I don't turn on the heat. If I leave the heat on then the temp goes back to half way.

[EVOthis]

whenever i burp any cooling system i wait for the fans to cycle on and off at least once and make sure both the upper and lower rad. hoses are hot and pressurized..this insures that the thermostat has opened.....sometimes when i get a stubborn air pocket i sit in the car and give it a few high revs and that usually works to get the pocket out....or i turn off the car for a few minutes and let it sit than start her up and that also works sometimes too....

[danko2000]

I believed I tried that but i will give it another try. I also forgot to mention before but I hear a gurgling sound under the dash in the morning when I rev the engine. It sounds like there is air in the system. Could this be caused from the head gasket. Also, I removed the air intake housing and the head are in fact leaking. A lot actually. Is this the root cause of my heating issue.

[sea#3]

The dealer said the head gasket was leaking and wanted the radiator sent out to get flushed and replace the gasket for $2000. 

 

I would send the rad out first and flushed then give it a try for the overheat , You may not be getting enough flow through the rad causing the 3/4 temp reading . The SOHC head gasket don't usually cause the overheat situation like the DOHC head gaskets do . I'm assuming that the dealer is saying that you have an external coolant leak and not a blown head gasket

SEA#3

[danko2000]

I read a couple articles on how to flush the radiator/heater core. Do you think I should do this myself and add the coolant conditioner that Subaru recommends adding? If it is the head gasket then i could just replace it later. What do you think? Do you think it could be the timing belt or water pump that I replaced?

[idosubaru]

this is getting convoluted and beyond the obvious- burp it properly. we know for a fact it has not been done right yet, so start there.

 

there's no point in discussing all sorts of other possibilities. not only that, but the thing that hasn't been done right is notorious for causing problems. search here for burping or removing air from the cooling system and do that.

 

messing with the heater core is not the answer. it would be very odd for it to be the timing belt. i can't see just the water pump alone causing this unless somehow (that i can't imagine) it was installed improperly or is the wrong one.

 

was the thermostat replaced - it needs to be a Subaru thermostat.

[subsince77]

This has been said repeatedly, but definitely search this site for burping. There are some extensive descriptions of how to burp a Subaru. I have been surprised at how hard it is to get all the air out. It really makes a big difference, and would go right along with the fact that your problem started after you replaced the pump. I have personally experienced overheating from having air trapped, and from using a napa thermostat instead of one from Subaru.

 

That said, did you guys catch that he said his heads were leaking badly a couple of posts back? That doesn't sound good.

[danko2000]

Hi everyone,

I went ahead and bought a Chiltons manual and it shows how to flush and burp the system. After removing the intake manifold housing I did see that both sides are leaking oil and coolant. I'm goin to replace the head gasket and follow the Chiltons manual a required.

 

I do have one question before I take on this project. I'm going to try to remove the head while in the car but I was curious if I'm going to run into problem with the head bolts. Will the Head Bolts remove with ease or do I have to lift/twist the motor some how? Please let me know. The manual doesn't specify as I expected. Also what are the chances that the head is warped?

[bgambino]

I have never done it in the car--only with the engine out...looks cramped but others say it is doable...Hell, I'm having a hard time getting the spark plug wires off without a tool...lol

 

If you decide to sell it instead...private message me as I am only 1.5 hours from you

 

Bill

[danko2000]

Bill,

Sorry but its the only car that I have and its got to last atleast another few years.

 

Doesn't anyone else know if its possibl to remove the heads with the motor in place? If so do I have to jack it up or twist it in any way?

[idosubaru]

search this forum for doing them in the car. the Phase I EJ25's definitely can be, and i'm %95 sure yours can as well. the few Subaru shops that i've been too do them in the car (unless it has to come out for a clutch or something anyway).

 

it is highly unlikely your heads are damaged. call your local subaru dealer and ask them who does their machine shop work. have that place mill your heads. you want a machined surface for the reinstall. they will also check them for flatness. i can say with a high degree of certainty they will be fine. i haven't come across a set of warped heads yet.

 

use Subaru only head gaskets for this.

[danko2000]

GrossGary,

I went ahead and purchased this gasket set. Do you think these will be okay?

 

 

http://www.partsgeek.com/gbparts/2004/subaru/legacy/head_gasket_set/ishino.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=ff&utm_term=2004+Subaru+Legacy+Head+Gasket+Set+-+Ishino&utm_content=ymmbp_n&utm_campaign=PartsGeek+Google+Base

[bgambino]

Danko

 

I don't t hink anyone on here would recommend ANYthing other than Subaru head gaskets....absolutely not

The are subaru dealers who sell over the internet for like 10% over their cost...saves you a fortune compared to your local subie dealer

I have used http://www.1stsubaruparts.com/

Ken is a good guy in the parts dept

My engine overhaul gasket set was $250

It is cheap insurance...you will not be doing head gaskets ever again on this car...spend the few extra bucks

[four-fleet-feet]

I've learned the hard way that Subies sometimes don't like any other kind of aftermarket parts other than OEM Subaru ones.

 

You never did say what brand thermostat was put in. Subies really do need an OEM t-stat. Since you've already said the heads are leaking, we already know you do have a gasket problem, but if the t-stat isn't reading or operating correctly you'll go mad trying to diagnose things. I speak from experience here.

 

Rodding out that radiator needs to be done. Stop leak causes more problems than it fixes. Whether you do the head gaskets yourself or farm the job out, do the radiator work first. You don't want that gunk in there. If your hoses are marginal or just who-knows-how-old, you might want to consider changing them at the same time you do the head gaskets. Stop-leak traces can build up inside them, float loose, and cause all sorts of headaches. Like banjax a new water pump, clog a new t-stat... oh yeah, BTDT 17 years ago. Cost a lot of aggravation to track the source down. Unfortunately.

 

Above all, be wary of that Chilton manual. I've found a few problems with my Imp manual, and now I doublecheck. If you find things are really going badly, stop and research on the web. You might have found one of the *many* errors in Chilton's Subaru books.

 

Also, you might want to put in from-a-dealer Subaru coolant when you're done. The Subaru coolant conditioner doesn't mix well with the wrong antifreeze - when you go get it at a dealer (or online) talk to a sales rep and ask what NOT to mix it with, or your newly-clean rad is going to need some more work.

 

A bit more expense, but who wants to do head gaskets twice? Once is much more than enough. Do it right the first time and you'll never have to do it again.

 

Good luck!